Posted by BC on May 22, 2004 at 22:54:44:
I would probably agree with Mike that rich starts around $3 million. Residual income of $100,000yr is really not that much, especially after taxes. I would say rich starts at about 500,000yr. Rich to me is being financial independent and being able to do or buy whatever you want, write a check, and know you don’t have to worry about it. Now that’s a great feeling!
what type of RE deals made you rich the fastest? - Posted by Joh
Posted by Joh on May 21, 2004 at 22:56:51:
Experts, please let us know what type of RE deals made you rich the fastest?
Was it flipping or rehabbing or subject to’s or lease options?
also,
which type of deals are the easiest and safest to do?
Find a niche that you love… - Posted by JT-IN
Posted by JT-IN on May 22, 2004 at 15:36:32:
And would do even if it didn’t pay so well… and apply yourself repeatedly in the pursuit of that attainment.
This may sound trite, however there is much more truth to it than most imagine… What difference does it make what type of deals anyone of us have done, and done profitably… and maybe its been very lucrative…? If those type of deals aren’t what turns you on… (flips your switch), then what difference does it make…? You would never be successful at the same type of approach unless you have a burning desire to do so.
The truth of the matter is that any one approach or technique that is talked about here can make you rich; (subjective term). However, if you really aren’t enamered wiht the technique, and can’t wait to get out of bed in the morning to get after it, then the technique will do you NO good… You, and you alone, are the only one that can choose what motivates you.
The falicy for most folks is that they get turned on by the thought of making XXX amount of $$$. That is the wrong way to look at the equation. The trick is to figure out what you LOVE to do… (L/O, flips, Landlording, etc), and go after it with near wreckless abandon. If you are so charged up that you can’t wait for sunrise to get go about this enterprise, then you are on the right track. If you simply can’t wait for the sun to rise to go out and make some $$$, then the efforts always seem to fade… before the truckload of equity rolls in…
So look at the horse from a different angle… figure out what turns YOU on… then go apply yourself. Now let me give a hint here… The definition of “Applying yourself”, isn’t defined by something that you try for 3 months or six months… It is something that you hunger and crave to learn all there is to know about the subject, and apply the techniques over time… like several years, or longer. In other words, there is NO get rich quick scheme to be learned here. However, you could easily amass a networth of well over a million dollars in 10 years doing this, (if you are doing the right things repeatedly). The quick-study’s may make it in half that time frame… with the rate exception being even less.
No apologies for the sermon… Just find what aspect works for you… then go after it.
JT-IN
Re: what type of RE deals made you rich - Posted by jasonrei
Posted by jasonrei on May 22, 2004 at 14:22:50:
I think I post a lot on here. I honestly think of myself as an expert in rehabbing (I mean, I think I have more experience than 90% of rehabbers), but I’m nowhere near rich. I’ve made a lot more money doing this than I’d expected, but to be rich would require a bit of time, and I just haven’t been doing this long enough.
RE: What type of RE deals made you rich…? - Posted by BC
Posted by BC on May 22, 2004 at 11:33:40:
Flipping and rehabs have both been great. You can get in and out in a short period of time and then use that profit to make more.
Re: Nail on the head. - Posted by js-Indianapolis
Posted by js-Indianapolis on May 23, 2004 at 16:26:43:
Couldn’t agree more. For some reason though, this is hard for most of us to practice. Why?
I continue to waste time on leads I don’t want to chase, I feel are going to lead nowhere, and then I prove myself right. Why? Perhaps I have this feeling that I just need to do some things in life that I know I won’t like, because you just have to sometimes. But why?
You know, JT, I’ve know what you said forever. It’s so true. Donald Trump says it often, and is adamant about it. Can I really follow it, everyday?
I’ve got this seller who has called me about 5 times this week. She’s asking too much, for sure and won?t negotiate any. Yet she continues to call, wanting me to come save her. I’m sick of telling her no. So sick, I almost went to her house, just so I could look at it, confirm I don’t want it, and then tell her NO. This, however, doesn?t seem like much fun. Perhaps when she calls tomorrow, I’ll just tell her, “You know lady, this isn’t much fun. I don’t think I’ll enjoy you house. I derive no pleasure from telling you no. IF I can see myself getting excited about your house, I’ll give you a call. Until then, have fun hoping you get your full asking price.”
Perhaps I’ll call all these leads that have bogged me down, and tell them all, “Nothing excites me about this. Just thought I’d let you know that.” That would be fun.
Anyhow, can you give me anything to justify me not doing things just because I don?t like them? I hear my mother telling me, ?You know, you can?t only do things you think are fun. You have to do things that aren?t fun sometimes.? Do I? Really? If I could just justify avoiding all things that are not fun, perhaps I wouldn?t get off track so often. Gimme some Tony Robbins here, JT. How can I feel good about avoiding all things not fun?
Re: what type of RE deals made you rich - Posted by Xcop
Posted by Xcop on May 23, 2004 at 13:05:10:
Jason, being rich to me is being able to leverage everything I do. Leverage time, labor, and money.
If you can profit from rehabbing without having to do all the rehabbing yourself, that’s a good sign you’re living a rich life.
What is rich? - Posted by BC
Posted by BC on May 22, 2004 at 19:01:42:
Just wondering if you’re not rich, how much money does someone need to be rich (in your opinion)?
Re: Nail on the head. - Posted by Becki Fahle
Posted by Becki Fahle on May 26, 2004 at 11:11:06:
Commenting on “saying no”:
In all probability, you don’t say no to the crappy leads for one of two reasons:
A. You don’t have enough leads to follow. This is a marketing problem, and I’m not going to deal with that here.
B. You have had it drilled into you since birth that saying “no” is impolite. Women, especially, get this. Culturally, it is our “job” to make the buck stop here and get it done.
In any event, because this woman is still calling you, and because you have a bunch of leads you are chasing that you think lead no where, I think you have a problem saying “no.”
So, you need to reprogram yourself. Saying “no” is not only polite, it is the morally correct thing to do. If you don’t say “No” clearly and firmly, that person (any person) is going to continue to hope that you are an option. And you are not.
If you don’t say “No” when you don’t have time, a person will rely on you to bring cookies when you don’t have time or money to do it. If you don’t say “NO” when it is in someone else’s best interest for you to say “no,” you do them no favors. It is impolite not to say “no.”
“No, I’m sorry, your property does not meet my parameters.”
“No, I’m not buying anything right now, I’ve got full inventory.”
The most polite no, in this case:
“No. Your house is overpriced. I’m an experienced investor and I don’t need to see the house to know that it is overpriced for that area. No investor is going to pay that price. If you want that price, you are going to have to find a retail buyer. Many people get themselves into to trouble that I cannot fix. You are one of them. Feel free to explore other options, but at your price an investor is not an option, in my opinion. [optional] Please do not call me again.”
There are some who would say the above is rude. How? You have clearly defined the problem, and clearly told them the truth, which they need to hear from someone, and told them you cannot help them and why. Not telling the truth is actually putting them in a worse position than before they called you, because it gives them false hope. That’s unethical. Period.
Have a script (or several options) at the bottom of your phone interview checklist, and use it verbatim every single time you run across a lead not worth chasing. One more thing systematized.
Re: Nail on the head. - Posted by Kristine-CA
Posted by Kristine-CA on May 24, 2004 at 22:04:31:
JS: I think I know why you think you should sometimes do deals/work that you don’t feel like. It’s because it’s starts when we are really young. And mandatory attendance at school just grinds it in harder. By the time we are adults, we can’t remember or don’t know what we feel. And we actually think we believe alot of that moralistic garbage about suffering, hard work and money.
Congratulations on getting clear that suffering does not make for good work or hard work. Kristine
NAIL in the head - Posted by JT-IN
Posted by JT-IN on May 23, 2004 at 21:21:01:
Josh:
Your Seller must seem to think that she can convince you that she can “talk you up”. Somewhere along the way, with your conversations with her, you must have given her the idea that she could… Or else she is dillusional and may have nothing else to do… but to call and attempt to strike a nerve with you… Or maybe she just plain likes talking to you. I’d simply tell her this: “She really needs a prayer here, and you are not a Priest…” “That you solve folks problems that are realistic about seeking a solution… however, if she gets realistic, she should call you back. Until then, you will light a candle for her at church…” I’d waste no more time with her… In other words, at this point you may need to insult the poor gal in order to get her to stop calling you.
This gets back to the subject that we have discussed several times in the past. Sure we all must do things that we do not like or want to do in any business (or lifes) venture. We simply will not like every aspect of our endeavor… but the successful people do the things that they do not like or want to do… they do those things first.
However, back to those leads… can you say that you are calling folks that will ultimate lead toward a deal, or are you calling these folks because you do not have a definite idea or strategy on something will certainly lead to a deal…? The difference between a skilled person who is doing lots of deals in this business, and one that is not… is that the skilled and successful person identifies up front the time wasters, the un-doable deals, and the dead ends, and continues to search for those that have a high percentage chance of developing into a deal… One who is less skilled and chases the wrong things that you are calling leads, is afraid to make that call, just by some chance it could have developed into a deal. That is about the only difference… Of course there are other skill differences, in most cases, but even if you put a skilled person with unmotivated sellers, or those deals with circumstances that will hardly materialize, their batting average will be dismal too… It is about getting in front of folks who meet the criteria of being able to do a deal, and avoiding the ones who can’t, in as little amount of time as possible.
Let’s look at a baseball analogy… take a hitter. One is successful, one is not doing too well. Why…? The successful hitter doesn’t chase bad pitches… he sees the pitch as it is released from the pitchers hand, and identifies the difference between a curve ball, fastball, slider, etc… The poor hitter is up at the plate guessing, and hoping that “his pitch” will fall out of the pitchers hand… Once in a while it does, and that is the only reason that the poor hitter is still playing baseball… but won’t be for long, unless he can learn to identify early, stop chasing the bad pitches, etc… There are lots of mechanics involved in hitting, and lots of mechanics involved in being a RE investor too…
One mroe thing… and this deals with attitude. I hear investors say certain things… you read about them here, and I have heard much of this first hand, whereby the investor after approaching a potential prospect and coming away empty handed, then denegrates the prospect verbally… (e.g. That seller is a loser… or, Just another liar…) To me this is negative self talk, which is like an aliby as to why this prospect didn’t develop into a deal. What the true pro does, is not take any of this personally, and after having contact with one of these folks, who obviously isn’t a gamer, is leave it right there… internalize nothing about this deal. The only one that you can hurt by taking any of those circumstances with you, if YOU… I just see this all too often… What a pro would say is, that just puts me closer to the one (deal/prospect) that I am looking for…
Rah, rah stuff…? Not really. It is all about having the proper mental attitude and not allowing yourself to be dragged away from your game plan… It is all about being in charge of you, (and them too). When a deal is going to happen, it is going to happen how I want it to happen, not how a Seller is going to allow me to do the deal… So who is in charge in that equation…? Need you ask…?
Just the way that I view things…
JT-IN
Ken is about right on this one. - Posted by Spidey
Posted by Spidey on May 26, 2004 at 12:47:22:
"But when work is an option and not a neccesity, then you are rich to me.
Time is the most valuable thing in the world and it cannot be bought by money. So when one can spend ones time doing whatever one wants, then that person is rich."
To simply put it…Rich is when your MONEY works for you; Not you working for it. Makes sense?
Interesting question - Posted by ken in sc
Posted by ken in sc on May 23, 2004 at 09:50:41:
What is rich? First, I would re-read JT’s post above. Part of being rich in my opinion is doing what you love to do. Since we spend a great part of our life’s time involves in our work, is not just having work that we find satisfying being rich? And as JT says, doing the work that you love almost always assures a higher monetary return as well as you do a better job of it than you would something that you just do for money.
As far as money goes, I think that when your residuals pay for the lifestyle that you want whether you work or not, then you are rich. That number could be 100K or 10 million a year depending on the person. But when work is an option and not a neccesity, then you are rich to me.
Time is the most valuable thing in the world and it cannot be bought by money. So when one can spend ones time doing whatever one wants, then that person is rich.
And of course, a good family life can bring one riches that again cannot be bought by money.
I know people with more money than me that I would not trade my life for theirs - so money is not all that it is about, don’t you think?
Just some random thoughts on this subject.
Ken
According to Kiyosaki - Posted by DP (ON)
Posted by DP (ON) on May 23, 2004 at 09:07:33:
$5 million in assets and $1 million/yr income from those assets. Because to quote him: “If you don’t know how to make 20% ROI you aren’t really an investor.”
Re: What is rich? - Posted by jasonrei
Posted by jasonrei on May 22, 2004 at 19:11:15:
lol, I guess that’s a good question.
I’m almost 30 and single. If I had $100,000 in residual income coming in from “stable” investments, right now I’d say that was rich. If I was older, or had a family, I think that would be different.
If I was to name a dollar figure, I’d say $1 million.
How’bout you?
Re: No, no problem saying no… - Posted by js-Indianapolis
Posted by js-Indianapolis on May 26, 2004 at 12:38:42:
…I just always think, “Well it might pan out.” I need to do just what JT said, and go for those that really have a high probability of panning out. I’m making progress. A little while ago I took a call from a lady with a condo who said, “Well, it apprasied for $160K.” It appraised for? Always a sign they’re going to ask too much. It rented for $1200, so I immediatly said, “Best case I’d pay $120K” That ended things quickly. Last week I would have been on the phone with her for 10 minutes hearing about the new reverse osmosis drinking system and “they’re asking $170K for one just like it…” Nope. I know appraisals are inflated, and if it rents for $1200, $120K is about where I need to be. Ahhh…that felt pretty good.
I also didn’t even return an email I got. LAdy said the house appraised at $65K, would take $40K. It was just assessed (they’re fairly accurate here) for $22K. Comps confirm it’s maybe a little better than $22K. NO!
Making some progress.
To expound a bit on the ability to say no, I learned how well negative selling works by saying “no” honestly. Shocking, when I quit saying maybe, and started saying no, sellers started begging me to buy. Initially, I had been begging them to sell. Works like a gem. I just need to get back to it, and stick to it.
I also found out it works well with the ladies, but that’s slighty off topic. 
Re: Nail on the head. - Posted by June
Posted by June on May 25, 2004 at 06:42:36:
kristine,
I guess for you its all about how “you feel”, right? And perhaps mandatory attendance at school was such a horrible idea, right? Well, Kristine why dont you try non-mandatory attendance at your job…Or try it at your business, and lets see how well you do…This “only do it if it feels good” culture that some of you promote will be the undoing of this country. It never got us here, and will never get us anywhere.
Kristine a lot of times you must do many many things you really dont want to do so that you can get ahead… Sometimes a mere phone call to a customer, client, bank, IRS, FTC whatever, may be the last thing you want to do, but you grit your teeth and do it because eventhough it does not feel good, it is necessary and has to be done. But Kristine you are telling us not to make that call because it does not feel good. Kristine please note that sometimes one has to go through unplesantness in other to acheive wholesomeness. Ask anyone who is scheduled for any kind of medical surgery. It is probably not the best thing you would want to subject yourself to, but you still do it because you have to…
Kristine the point of this little sermon is that this “only do it if it feels good culture” will destroy our society if we do not recognize this trend and nip it in the bud. Kristine, why are you talking about suffering? Why do you equate suffering with hardwork? Dont you see that there is a difference? Please do not drag red herring into this. We are talking about hardwork, smartwork, not suffering. Kristine, Hardwork is good. Your “do it if it only feels good” philosophy is the typical world view of bums and pot smoking hippies.
Please do not teach any young kids this morally bankruot philosiphy of yours …Thanks
June (…a view from the Right)
Re: NAIL in the head - Posted by js-Indianapolis
Posted by js-Indianapolis on May 26, 2004 at 13:29:00:
Some great points. Things I?m always saying, ?I know, I know? about, but often forget to put into practice. Knowing what to do and actually doing it are two different things. I?ll comment a bit on some of your points, in order.
?Your Seller must seem to think that she can convince you that she can “talk you up”. Somewhere along the way, with your conversations with her, you must have given her the idea that she could…?
That?s a new one I hadn?t thought about. I cannot believe I never thought of this. I?m the one who always ask people who complain to me, ?What?s the constant in this equation? It?s YOU!? Perhaps I should ponder my own advice. Problem identified. Now, what is it I?m saying? Being that half of the calls I get I find myself saying the same thing over and over, I?m sure I can identify it quickly.
?Sure we all must do things that we do not like or want to do in any business (or lifes) venture.?
Yeah, I know I?m going to be doing CERTAIN things I don?t like. As for certain things I don?t like about the foreclosure area, I could do without the tediousness of searching through our paper folders at the courthouse and subsequent data entry. Yes, it?s the only way to get real data. I?d pay someone $10 an hour to do that for me. How can I find a reliable employee, but one with no initiative, so I don?t end up training my competition?
However, things in general that I despise, entire categories, I?m passing on. I get a number of $60-$80K slumlord type leads around some partly sketchy areas of Indy. New policy, I hate those. I?m not even going to think one will pan out (never has), and I?m passing all of those on to someone I know. Other areas of leads have been delegated as well. Namely, 100% LTV Sub To?s. Focus is getting less muddled.
?One mroe thing… and this deals with attitude.?
I identified that a while back. It?s the underlying cause of all of this nonsense. Notice my absence from the board as of late? I believe largely in karma, and didn?t want to bring my poopie pants attitude here. I don?t take things sellers say personally. However, after so many times going after the wrong lead, I got into, ?This is going to go nowhere.? mode at each attempt. Back to baseball, like a batter in a slump. Vince Lombardi would have said, ?Whether you think you can, or think you can?t, you?re right.?
?Rah, rah stuff…? Not really. It is all about having the proper mental attitude and not allowing yourself to be dragged away from your game plan…?
Rah rah? After saying forever, I don?t need any rah rah, I need it. Don?t know what happened, but my get up and go, got up and left. I?ve had the opposite of PMA, PMS. I?ve gotten as low as turning to Tony Robbins?and Stepen Covey?and Wayne Dyer?and Deepak Chopra. Yeah, I needed to go into subatomic quantum physics and male motivational cheerleaders to get my head out of?well, the spot it was in. OK, maybe not, but it gave me a little lift, and I?m getting it back together. Now I just need to really believe that I?m going to soar again.
Thanks for the pointers. I?ll get it back together again; I know this. What’s that saying about success being defined as not how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up? Thank God there’s no three knock down rule.
“…internalize nothing about this deal” - Posted by Anne_ND
Posted by Anne_ND on May 24, 2004 at 20:45:41:
oh, such valuable advice. I spend way too much time complaining or fixating over why a certain seller did or didn’t do what I expected.
Thanks for another golden nugget, JT!
Anne