Posted by Redline on December 07, 2002 at 16:37:43:
It’s really this simple: Anyone who name calls and does it anonymously is not someone I would trust for much of anything.
RL
Robert Shemin :: analyze his recent talk in Fort L - Posted by royland
Posted by royland on December 06, 2002 at 12:55:16:
Hi All,
I went to see a very interesting discussion by best selling creative financing author Robert Shemin and thought I would share his key points with you and hopefully get some feedback on his conclusions as well as thoughts on his approach.
1 Very motivational. Outlined his his first experience with encountering a successful REI in a lonely building site in Tennessee. This was the starter motor.
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He is dyslexic and hates handiwork - no spatial reasoning. Says you do not need to be good with hands to be successful investor. Something which always worried me.
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He maintains it is easier than you think and people wait too long before they make their first deal.
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He advocates learning LEASE OPTIONS as they are a fantastic way to buy but more importantly, for the Landlord, they provide a much type of tenant: pride of ownership.
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He says wholesaling is fun. Learn wholesaling.
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He seems to have developed a proven screening process from potential renters. He never meets potential renters at the property. He first does a clear screening and credit and background check before doing anything.
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He never accepts an offer until their clear evidence of funds in bank account.
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He mentioned something about comps - but I don’t know what this is?
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He seems to be very big on asset protection and said to be very careful on relying on insurance payouts. He was at the mercy of a hurricane in Texas and spent 3 months savings before seeing any cash from the insurance company and then only because he sued - successfullly.
Re: Robert Shemin - Posted by Redline
Posted by Redline on December 06, 2002 at 15:04:59:
Your subject got cut off. He appeared in Fort Lee? As in, NJ?
Anyway I have one of his books and find it “ehh”, if you know what I mean. Nothing new or particularly interesting.
All I can say is - all the guru’s talk about L/O’s as the way to get rich easily. I couldn’t disagree more. (Sandwich) L/O’s are loaded guns and NOT for beginners, IMO.
Wholesaling is tough, but if you can do it you’re forced to learn alot of aspects of the business AND you’re in and out of a deal, so in those respects it’s good for beginners.
Good luck,
RL
Re: Robert Shemin - Posted by Michael
Posted by Michael on December 06, 2002 at 15:33:04:
Again I read that lease purchasing isn’t for beginners. That is clearly not accurate or true. Lease purchasing is an excellent way for newcomers to get into real estate. Not the only way, but an excellent way.
Done correctly, using the proper contracts, a lease purchase is a low risk, low cash, low maintenance real estate transaction.
Re: Robert Shemin - Posted by royland
Posted by royland on December 06, 2002 at 15:31:24:
Hi Redline - he appeared in Fort Lauderdale.
I found your comments interesting. As a beginner I definately get the impression that there ia lot of ‘spin’ in their presentations but it is difficult not to believe them at the time.
They seem to have the knack of making it look very simple and distill complicated areas into simple catch phrases. He had the audience eating out his hand.
I was particulary interested in your opinion that L/Os are not the way to go but rather that Sandwiched L/Os are loaded guns.
Could you be more specific. I am trying to learn as much as I can.
Could you also possibly explain WHOLESALING to me?
Many thanks
Royland
Sandwich L/O’s are BAD for newbies … - Posted by Redline
Posted by Redline on December 06, 2002 at 15:53:10:
Sandwhich L/O’s (which I assume we’re talking about here) are horrible ways for beginners to begin IMO. I know people doing this business for YEARS that don’t even like them.
The thought of a newbie with not enough knowledge (definition of a newbie, no?), not enough CASH and no experience doing sandwhich L/O’s as the guru’s explain is a bankruptcy filing waiting to happen.
The total lack of control in these situations makes them, by default a HORRIBLE choice for newbies. You’re promising you can deliver title to your tb but when the time comes, and you can’t get it from your seller - what’s the newbie to do when the lawsuit(s) come piling in? Just walk away, like the courses suggest? You can try. You won’t walk far.
And oh yah, that stuff about not being a landlord by doing L/O’s - you don’t really believe that, do you? So we’re combining some of the most difficult aspects of investing into one transaction and saying it’s good for newbies. Why? Because you can get in without alot of money?
Explain to me why you think L/O’s are such a good thing for newbies, and save the seminar jive.
These types of deals are for SEASONED investors with knowledge, cash reserves and experience. (In that order).
Just my opinion.
RL
Use the search function to learn … - Posted by Ronald * Starr (in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr (in No CA) on December 06, 2002 at 15:48:35:
Royland–(FL)----------
To quickly learn about a topic, put it into the search function at the top of the main board. If you search for “wholesaling” you will find about 370 postings. Plus the posting they link to or are linked to them.
Good for you, noticing that somebody who is a good speaker is not not ncessarily a good person from whom to learn. I agree with the earlier assessment of his book. I read it either last summer or the summer before, when I was in OK to buy properties. It is not terrible. Just not anything very new and interesting. Certainly not a candidate for “good real estate investing book of the year,” any year. Yeah, that “Ehhh…” is a good summary of my reaction to the book.
Good InvestingRon Starr***********
Re: Sandwich L/O’s are BAD for newbies … - Posted by Eva_VA
Posted by Eva_VA on December 06, 2002 at 19:19:15:
Redline - I totally agree with your thoughts on sandwich lease options. I am a newbie and have done intense reading of books and message boards and came to the same conclusion. I think this technique could possibly render devastating results for a novice investor who chooses to invest this way. From my readings, a good portion of newbies don’t even realize that they need to use contracts suitable for their state; most are cash poor and have terrible credit and are under the assumption they can make thousands of dollars and quit their jobs within a month or two. I don’t think so. Put these points together and what do you have? A diaster waiting to happen. One bad deal and they could be sunk for life. With all the hype that goes along with creative investing, the risks and disadvantages should also be made very clear. We owe it to each other. :o)
Re: Sandwich L/O’s are BAD for newbies … - Posted by royland
Posted by royland on December 06, 2002 at 17:19:32:
Hi Redline - I am interested in how you manage liability and legal issues with respect l/o and flipping. What is your method?
Re: Sandwich L/O’s are BAD for newbies … - Posted by Michael
Posted by Michael on December 06, 2002 at 16:05:38:
I DID explain why lease purchasing is a smart way for newbies to invest. Seminar jive? Hardly. As a veteran of over, oh, I’d say one hundred lease purchase deals of various types, I am confident that these transactions are a good, and safe way for a newbie. And I’m no genius. If I can do it without ending up in court as you are pontificating, so can anyone with some guidance and instruction.
Shemin knows his ____ . - Posted by Hank FL
Posted by Hank FL on December 06, 2002 at 19:14:24:
How much is really new in real estate anyway?
As for his integrity, I know a couple of guys that have done business with him and would do it again. He’s a good guy.
As for his intellectual capacity, well, Goldman Sachs doesn’t hire dummies.
Search and learn - Posted by royland
Posted by royland on December 06, 2002 at 17:18:18:
Yup - thanks Ron - just discovered that search functionlity. Very useful!
By the way - if you did subscribe to the ultimate CREI guru who would it be?
Re: Sandwich L/O’s are BAD for newbies … - Posted by Michael
Posted by Michael on December 07, 2002 at 06:08:13:
Eva, you admit you are a newbie with no experience other than somethings you’ve read. How, then, can you render such an authoritative opinion about lease purchasing?
You also repeated what I have been saying: that for starters, the deal must be done correctly, using the right paperwork.
Then again… - Posted by Bryan-SactoCA
Posted by Bryan-SactoCA on December 06, 2002 at 23:25:48:
But it seems to me that a newbie who is that clueless could ruin themselves with practically any form of creative RE. With all the controversy over flips, it’s not hard to see how somebody could screw themselves badly with just a “simple” flip. Real estate buying and selling is serious business. It’s heavily regulated and requires a lot of forms for a reason. One should know what they’re doing before doing ANY creative RE transaction. I’ve heard of people piecing together contracts from bits and pieces of stuff they get on the net. I’ve seen posts from people who go out looking for a flip or l/o without any knowledge or training, and when they find an interested party they post here saying “I need forms and someone to tell me what to do”.
Exactly … - Posted by Redline
Posted by Redline on December 06, 2002 at 19:32:20:
Tell that to the guy with the 100 L/O deals and the fake email address.
RL
Re: Sandwich L/O’s are BAD for newbies … - Posted by Redline
Posted by Redline on December 06, 2002 at 19:31:17:
I don’t do sandwich L/O’s. Period.
As far as ‘flipping’, that’s a much more straight forward transaction. The ones I do are on the wholesale side so it’s investor dealing with investor, so no hands to hold. I’ve got strong paperwork that says I’m selling as is, where is and I cover all the bases.
RL
Re: Sandwich L/O’s are BAD for newbies … - Posted by Redline
Posted by Redline on December 06, 2002 at 19:28:52:
I don’t buy it, and it’s not pontificating it’s reality.
I also don’t trust people who don’t use their real email address so I’ll assume you have something to sell and I’ll be stopping here.
RL
Re: Sandwich L/O’s are BAD for newbies … - Posted by royland
Posted by royland on December 06, 2002 at 17:12:30:
Hi Michael,
Although I agree with Redline that many professional CREI teachers are often more polished talkers than investors I did find some of your comments interesting.
If you have achieved over 100 succesfful l/o deals you must be doing something right.
I am curious as to how exactly you started and what made your first deal successful.
Cheers
Royland
Re: Shemin knows his ____ . - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on December 06, 2002 at 19:53:54:
Hank–(FL)-----------
Please do not misunderstand me. I am not saying he is a dummy. I am not saying that he does not know his stuff. I am not saying that somebody would go wrong by reading his book.
And I certainly agree with your “How much is really new in real estate anyway?” That is my point. There are a lot of decent books on real estate investing. His is ok. But, it does not add anything new to the literature. There are a lot of books from the 1980s and 1990s that one could read to the same advantage as reading Shemin’s book. And a lot of them can be found used in bookstores, online, and at thrift stores.
I would not recommend that people avoid the book. It’s just that one should not, in my view, expend any extra effort or money to get it if one already has read other books on the topic.
It is apparent that Mr. Shemin is good a promoting himself. Nothing wrong with that. And I have no criticism of his character, ethics, or way of doing business. It is nice to hear that he is apparently an honest businessperson.
I read a lot of books on real estate investing. I am always looking for a few new ideans, some other ways of looking at things. I don’t expect a lot out of any one book these days, having read so much already. And I suggest that people reading his book should not expect much new either.
Good InvestingRon Starr*******
Not so fast … - Posted by Redline
Posted by Redline on December 06, 2002 at 19:35:18:
Not saying Shemin is a dummy, but I’ve worked for a “Wall St. Firm” for the past 8 years, and let me tell you … it’s not all mensa. Goldman included.
RL