Posted by Shawn Sisco on April 21, 2011 at 16:31:29:
The points you bring up remind me of the work of George Washington Carver - showing people that they had all of the ingredients for a much richer life than they realized.
Looking for heating ideas - Posted by Dr. B. (OH)
Posted by Dr. B. (OH) on April 18, 2011 at 18:23:23:
O.K. ingenious ones. Looking for an inexpensive/efficient alternative to propane and oil heat. What I mean is no $600 hits to the tenant-buyers. They seem to be willing to pay high monthly bills (can’t get propane or oil billed monthly due to poor credit. These homes are all on 100 amp service. The temperature here in the winter is frequently below 32 F for 4-10 days straight and got as low as 4 F last winter.
Steve
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by Tony Colella
Posted by Tony Colella on April 29, 2011 at 22:53:49:
I don’t know if others have hit upon this concern or not but this is my m.o. for heating.
Tenants don’t ever, ever, ever think about plumbing until the lines are frozen. Heating that only heats the home and not some of the underbelly is a recipe for trouble in colder regions and freak, cold snaps in more moderate climates.
If a tenant only has a heat-as-you go type system such as a woodstove you are in trouble when the leave for work, vacation, jail whatever. If no one is there to stoke the stove the house will begin to freeze, toilets crack etc.
Heating homes will be a challenge for us all to consider as that cost really eats into our tenants pockets.
Bearing in mind that most of my properties are in a relatively moderate climate here is my approach.
Heat tape on the water line coming out of the ground and as long as the tape will reach. Underbelly insulation and/or pipe insulated if they are below the underbelly.
Our furnaces are electric so if the power is on the furnace is usually on. I need to do a better job of reminding tenants to change filters or do it myself. Most look like sweaters and not filters which hurts the life of the unit, reduces the heating ability and costs the tenant more.
Decent (relatively) skirting to keep the windchill down helps a great deal as well.
This so far has solved most of my problems so far but over time I have considered adding one baseboard unit in the home on its own breaker if need be, to be used only in the event of a furnace failure during the night (which most seem to be). This would only be a backup that would get the family through the night and allow me to respond the next morning by calling an HVAC repairman during normal (cheaper) business hours.
Tony
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by Ed in Idaho
Posted by Ed in Idaho on April 28, 2011 at 22:58:38:
check out these http://www.convectair.com/us
I borrowed one from my electric co-op and also had a meter on it with the co-op rate added into it…it worked very well and was very cheap to operate.
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by joe–ga
Posted by joe–ga on April 25, 2011 at 12:01:59:
I have had problem with bill shock here in middle ga
with heat pumps, I suggest you DONT go there—if its a
problem here,anything in the north would be $1000 a
month running heat strips…I am converting back over
to propane here, its cheaper than electric.There again,
natural gas checks credit somost tenants cant qualify
for that
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by Dr. B. (OH)
Posted by Dr. B. (OH) on April 20, 2011 at 21:45:52:
Thanks everybody for your thoughts so far. A high utility deposit is bad enough but a $600 bill for L.P. refill every 6-8 weeks is overwhelming to these folks (and would be to me too). Most are making between $1280 and $1600/mo. With lot rent at $285, this makes truly affordable payments to me between $75- $150/mo. Thus a long time before break-even.
I was thinking about a pellet stove but the longitudinal design of these homes leaves those on the ends in the cold. Perhaps, as mentioned a pellet stove blowing heat through the ducts may be an answer. But to be straight, these folks do not need something else that they have to be responsible to feed (pellets, wood, corn, etc.) They have enough trouble managing themselves, their kids and especially their pets.
I have temporarily heated a 14X 70 with 3 to 4 oil-filled portable electric radiators. Maybe buy 4/home at $40ea (or get a deal on a pile of them) and give them to the homeowner upon purchase.
Glen(OH) suggests perhaps oil-filled electric baseboard heat would do the trick. He is working up some btu numbers on these.
Steve
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by Shawn Sisco
Posted by Shawn Sisco on April 20, 2011 at 10:52:24:
It seems to me that for you to incur costs in order that your tenants will have overall higher cost heating just so that a smaller up front payment will be required is a bad plan.
All electric homes are prevalent in my locale and elec company deposit requirements have been radically ratcheted upward for new move ins over the past few years.So, in all likelihood you efforts will be thwarted by an upcoming change in policy by you service providers.
I would think that you should offer a January/ February “energy credit” scheme, of course this would require an corresponding (or least partial)increase in monthly rents - if you could sell the deal in summer, one likely benefit would be that tennants would be more likely to stay through winter. Also, you may be best able to help by just offering good advice as to the best LP providers in your area.
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by JeffB (MI)
Posted by JeffB (MI) on April 19, 2011 at 14:01:47:
This might not be feasible, but what about just keeping the service in your name and billing them, plus a percentage of course? The percentage profit would likely be wiped out by credit losses you would sustain, but it should improve sales and the ability to get people into your homes, no?
funny . . . - Posted by Steve-WA
Posted by Steve-WA on April 19, 2011 at 10:42:21:
different areas of the country have different heat sources, mainly due to cost I figger . . .
Out here, most MHs are all electric homes, which means 200a panels. Cost to upgrade the lot (park’s burden) is about $900, then you have to upgrade the home - I’ve paid about $700.
Back in MO, everything is gas. Nobody has electric furnaces.
I like what Brenda says about wood stoves, maybe a pellet stove. They heat like crazy, so poor insulation is overpowered by the sheer wave of heat coming off one of these. Woodstove-heated homes also tend to have less moisture damage - go figure.
That’s my vote, but it will depend on being able to get a permit (if required) on an older home, being able to get or keep insurance, and the initial cost - but I’d bet a beer that its cheaper to put in a woodstove than new elec service and furnace.
And to a lot of people its homier - the reservations come from people with little kids, so some kind of barrier might be a good addition.
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by shawn sisco
Posted by shawn sisco on April 18, 2011 at 19:54:24:
Steve, this certainly doesn’t qualify as ingenious, but I
think it important to consider that a 200 amp panel with
main breaker costs about $100. a 15kw electric MH furnace
costs $438.
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by JeffB (MI)
Posted by JeffB (MI) on April 20, 2011 at 12:05:43:
“…It seems to me that for you to incur costs in order that your tenants will have overall higher cost heating just so that a smaller up front payment will be required is a bad plan…”
Thank you. That’s exactly what I was trying to communicate in my earlier response. But I got off track with my idea that you could keep the utilities in your name and bill them back – certainly a hassle. The whole thing with pellet heaters, furnace and/or electrical conversions, etc is not only a big cost but a big hassle. I don’t like costs or hassles, but I’d rather have just one than both.
meh - Posted by Steve-WA
Posted by Steve-WA on April 20, 2011 at 10:21:54:
I’ve done that with taxes and insurance, in many different varieties of management, and it all equals the same thing: HUGE pain in the a ss
and good luck getting them to pay you back with or without premium after they went a month at 90 degrees and all the windows open.
I say this is the WORST alternative. From my experience; your results may vary. Heck, Detroit-area may have much more responsible trailer dwellers than I am used to . . . and I may be talking up my sleeve
Re: funny . . . - Posted by JeffB (MI)
Posted by JeffB (MI) on April 19, 2011 at 13:59:57:
I gotta say I’m not a fan of the wood pellet idea especially in a MH, for many reasons which are obvious. But a less obvious reason is space. MH living rooms are typically not very large (at least not in a SW) and I’d hate to give up all that space for a pellet heater.
I don’t know what a good solution would be, cause we have almost 100% natural gas furnaces up here. Running electric would cost a fortune.
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by Don-NY
Posted by Don-NY on April 19, 2011 at 06:13:24:
Shawn, A service upgrade is more than just another panel. The panel is $100. The new higher amp wire to the pod is another $100. A new higher amp pod is another $100. The service upgrade, trenching, wire to the meter and inspections is another $500-800.
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by Brenda (OH)
Posted by Brenda (OH) on April 19, 2011 at 02:55:57:
wood pellet stoves/corn stoves are used in our area.
it heats one room, if you ran the furnace on fan only mode, would it pull it into other areas of the home?
there is a dealer for these stoves in Northside I can get a name for you.
Brenda (OH)
Re: funny . . . - Posted by joe–ga
Posted by joe–ga on April 25, 2011 at 12:15:18:
I hate to throw this into the mix, but what about small
children being burned?there is a liability suit
not so bad - Posted by Steve-WA
Posted by Steve-WA on April 20, 2011 at 10:18:46:
put sheetrock behind the unit, put a hearth, and ensure that properly flashed and insulated ducting is used - why is that any worse than the open flame of a gas furnace? Other than the accessibility to a hot metal box - and that is not MH specific
wuss
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by Shawn Sisco
Posted by Shawn Sisco on April 19, 2011 at 09:32:40:
I did neglect to include wire cost. But the rest is accurate pricing for me - no inspections here, and electric co. will upgrade loop at no charge. I have an old backhoe that I leave sitting at the park.
I would imagine that a wheeler dealer like Steve could trade for his trenching/ wire costs.
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by Dr. B. (OH)
Posted by Dr. B. (OH) on April 20, 2011 at 21:09:20:
Thanks guys,
I would love to upgrade to electric furnaces but as Don has mentioned, the upgrade is more than just the box and furnace. Depending on the park, County, overhead wires or buried, etc., service upgrade costs can be as high as $1200 and the park doesn’t want to put out this kind of $$ per home. These are OLD single wides that barely warrant the expense of just the panel and furnace.
Steve
Re: Looking for heating ideas - Posted by Tarheel T
Posted by Tarheel T on April 21, 2011 at 06:34:30:
All I have are electric furnaces, and my thinking had been that i would love to find a cheaper heating source. It is a problem for most of the renters to pay the electric heating bills. Often winter will see 350-450 a month electric bills even for a 14 X 60. They all say they keep the furnace cut down as low as they can stand it. But then i have a single guy who must actually keep his heat at 50 as he says because his bill is not but around $75. In the end charities are often called upon to help, but still electric is not necessarily that cheap of a heating source as i see it.