Re: Response from a Doctor - Posted by lukeNC
Posted by lukeNC on November 20, 2007 at 03:51:12:
I’m not afraid of “big brother” watching. If you think someone is not watching you and knowing everything you’re doing right now, you’re naive. The technology is already there and being used, get over it.
If you have nothing to hide, why be afraid?
Again, we should model Japan’s system - a prevention based, guaranteed and affordable system available to all.
read carefully dude… - Posted by lukeNC
Posted by lukeNC on November 19, 2007 at 17:22:45:
Who said anything about non-profit?
Forget Canada and Poland and look up Japan’s healthcare system and get back to me. Excellent healthcare guaranteed for all. Affordable for everyone. Physician’s pay is great, just like here and probably better. And excellent drug research. No trial lawyers, no myriad HMO and PPO garbage.
Do some research dude. We can have all those things AND pay those who do the work very well.
You think I mean that people and companies shouldnt make money in healthcare? I said it should not be profit driven and purely capitalistic.
Re: Dental is the worst scam… - Posted by James
Posted by James on November 17, 2007 at 10:16:34:
What I meant was given Client A & B, Ins Carrier vs. Cash, when they pay, they get a immediate payment discount.
I believe it’s on the invoices across the board. Even if it wasn’t, I don’t see fraud there.
James
Re: All states are different - Posted by Barry (FL)
Posted by Barry (FL) on November 17, 2007 at 08:56:32:
You also failed to mention the fact that the insurance industries are highly regulated by the states. You can’t just go and buy a policy for what you want or think you need to be covered, a la carte, you are stuck with what the regulators have legislated you MUST have.
You’re right … - Posted by Frank Chin
Posted by Frank Chin on November 20, 2007 at 11:22:22:
Steve:
Yes, no one is supposed to know this. You made my point.
That’s why I said “I know more than I care to know …”
Then again, there are businesses where no one pays the list price. The list price is just a base price, the point to start negotiations. As an example, buying a car.
Except, no one knows health services works the same way, myself included, before I got stuck in the mess.
As to the “collection agency” trying to collect the difference, first, I found NY state law prohibits collecting from insureds when the insurer is deemed insolvent (and not being able to pay it’s bills is deemed so under NY unsurance law), and secondly, they tried to collect the difference not due them, which is fraud. And of course, they cashed a “paid in full” check.
The point is …
Why should we as health service consumers make themselves experts on the state health insurance laws, banking laws, consumer collection laws, etc etc???
This is besides knowing about health insurance policies, i.e., annual limits, lifetimes limits, the difference between hospitalization, and rehab afterwards, which could be months or years. My dad had no idea that when the hospital says you have to go to rehab, it’s NOT COVERED afer 60 days by medicare.
Conclusion …
Free market health insurance, under the jurisdiction of 50 states, is too intimidating for the average citizen. There should he standard plans, and operational procedures, nationwide, that everyone understands.
Frank Chin
Re: But then again. . . - Posted by And-In-Addition
Posted by And-In-Addition on November 20, 2007 at 10:37:20:
“Half” of the buyers I come into contact with that have credit issues on their reports are those related to medical bills/payments not being paid in a timely manner.
Re: read carefully dude… - Posted by Chad (MD)
Posted by Chad (MD) on November 21, 2007 at 20:27:30:
Hi Luke,
I’d just like to say I grew up partly in Japan, and you are correct about their healthcare. I’ve also lived in Europe, where their “socialized medicine” was superior to what we have here.
Re: All states are different - Posted by Wayne-NC
Posted by Wayne-NC on November 17, 2007 at 09:19:45:
“You also failed to mention…”
Yes, I failed to mention a lot of things as it goes beyond the scope of this thread somewhat. At least that was my opinion. Anyway, yes you are right. It is regulated by the state insurance commissioner. Thanks for mentioning that.
…Try Capitalism - Posted by -Steve-
Posted by -Steve- on November 21, 2007 at 08:34:53:
…ok, but the price for cars, RE etc. is driven by the market place. Medical cost are not. If people are intimidated currently, it is because medical care is not set up in a Free market place. Why? Because people do not ask medical providers the cost of care. People do not shop for the best price and service for medical care like they do a car. Social Regulations don’t work. Insurance companies don’t work. Capitalism works!
Re: You’re right … - Posted by DaveD (WI)
Posted by DaveD (WI) on November 20, 2007 at 15:24:01:
You can make the same argument about anything, Frank. You don’t need to know anything about what you just detailed to consume health care. You will just pay more by not knowing. Same holds true for cars, RE or anything bought on eBay. Imperfect markets.
Re: All states are different - Posted by Barry (FL)
Posted by Barry (FL) on November 17, 2007 at 10:44:05:
Didn’t mean it to sound the way it did as I agreed with everything you had said.
We could start an entire forum to discuss this matter and solve the problem! LOL
Re: …Try Capitalism - Posted by Frank Chin
Posted by Frank Chin on November 22, 2007 at 05:06:32:
Steve:
Believe me, I tried.
We’re trying the solve the “health care” problem on this thread?? LOL
Using capitalism would be nice. But unlike buying RE, or a car, you just don’t know what you’re buying when you agree to pay $X dollars for “Policy version Y”
So states come in and mandate certain minimum coverages so an insured knows what is covered based on what he pays. When this happens the insurers cry “that’s why rates are so high”.
Imagine if there you buy a car, and you have no idea what the base price covers?? Does it include the engine, the transmission, the wheels?? If a dealer advertises a car without these items, and suddenly has to advertise a complete car, is he going to cry “prices are too high because I have to include everything”.
Yes, as a businessman, I price and shop for my own coverage. The problem is almost all insurers price packages for large or meduim size companies, and prices packages for “individuals” and small businesses as an afterthought. I was paying $500 under COBRA thru United Health, and thought of continuing with them. BUT they charge individuals $1,500/month, 5 years ago. The HR guy at the company told me the United Health is not interested in individual policies.
Most large insurers file rate plans with the state, and all price them starting at $1,700/month for individuals. The plans are available for review on the state Website.
At these rates, it pays just to have a spouse get a job just for health benefits. The paycheck, in this case is “secondary”.
I then shopped coverage thru private brokers. For small 1-2 employee businesses, there’s only ONE or TWO plans to choose from. One is HIP, which is partly “state” owned. I understand they are selling to the public to raise cash for the state now. I currently pay $1,150.month for an HMO plan, with other plans priced at close to $2,000/month.
The insurance industry was crying about small “one employee” companies so much so that the state passed a law allowing them a 15% surcharge. The runs COUNTER to the notion to make it easier for small businesses.
I got NO OBJECTION to some requirement that small businesses be mandated to cover employees. I can’t do it for 8 of my employees because NON OF MY COMPETITORS DO IT. If I pay for insurance, and the guy down the street doesn’t, then I put myself out of business. If we’re all required to, then there’s a level paying field.
Bottomline.
Capitalism doesn’t work if people providing the services are NOT INTERESTED in serving the market.
Years back, my dad owned a small “laundry - dry cleaner”, and most small laundries had to go thru an offsite commercial laundry to have the work done. The prices charged by these folks are high, and service poor. This is because these large laundries do better servicing hotels and restaurants, and NOT interested in serving the small merchants.
What the local merchants did was there chipped in an opened up a “coop”, which ran a large commercial laundry. The price came down, and service improved.
Solution
Have health service consumers come together and form a “coop” to provide their own health care". BUT, somewhere along the line, the state or federal government may have to step in and get it started. When this happens. you hear cries of “socialized medicine”
Frank Chin