Just saw "SICKO" - Posted by Terry Vaughan

import · November 16, 2007, 9:31pm

Posted by Wayne-NC on November 17, 2007 at 13:53:40:

Now that I got your attention! I seem to recall that you are in the St. Augustine area? Well, I will be there this winter for a week beginning 12/30 to stay in a timeshare. Mainly for college football with my brother and a very good friend also in SA. I do like to meet others in the areas that I go and talk REI. It’s always been a fun learning experience. If you have a afternoon free somewhere in there, let me know. We can fight about all our agreements all we want. (Cletus would love that line, it’s his humor) Wait a minute, how can people fight about agreements? Well, lets try to find a disagreement or two and go at it! LOL

import · November 16, 2007, 9:31pm

Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by Terry Vaughan

Posted by Terry Vaughan on November 16, 2007 at 22:31:58:

Even though Real Estate investing has allowed me to have a high net worth, I still see that serious illness can take a big chunk out of my reserve cash.

I recently had a kidney stone removed. Even though We pay big money for health insurance, it still cost me over $15,000 to take care of items the insurance didn’t.

It’s hard to believe we are the only country in the world that has a health care system that can so debilitate our citizens it can drive them to the point of destitution.

All of which makes me curious about our CREOnline members.

How many of you have had the cost of health care impact your lives and in what way?

import · November 22, 2007, 11:12am

Re: Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by Nimesh Patel

Posted by Nimesh Patel on November 22, 2007 at 12:12:21:

Terry, the reason why you got ripped off is because health insurance companies will gladly take your premium. But when it comes for them to pay out a claim, FORGET ABOUT IT. You won’t see a dime and you will be left with paying HUGE MONEY out of your own pocket. But you are a lawyer and you understand all of the clauses that are attached to the “disclaimer” section when you signed up, right?

As an example, I appealed a claim because a semicolon on the disclaimer clause stated that the particular service was included and I didn’t have to pay for it. The health insurance company denied my claim and I had to pay for it anyways.

Americans spend more money per capita than anyone else in the world for health care and what do we get back in return? America always is ranked between 33 and 39 year after year in terms of overall health care. Oh, I forgot, but we have the best health care system in the world, LOL, LOl, LOL, LOL.

import · November 21, 2007, 3:11pm

Goosh Terry! - Posted by Wayne-NC

Posted by Wayne-NC on November 21, 2007 at 16:11:43:

All this great insight and NOT ONE response! I hope you are feeling well enought to add to a great thread. Happy Thanksgiving to you and all.

import · November 19, 2007, 10:13am

Re: Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by Greg

Posted by Greg on November 19, 2007 at 11:13:09:

Terry, my wife just had the same thing. Our out of pocket was just under one thousand dollars. We have Blue Cross/Blue Shield from Northern New Jersey. 15K sounds way high, but I guess it depends on your specific policy.

import · November 19, 2007, 7:16am

Bring Capitalism to Medical Care - Posted by -Steve-

Posted by -Steve- on November 19, 2007 at 08:16:37:

When are we going to stop blamming everyone else and start taking responsibilty for our medical care cost. It is time to bring capitalism to medical care!

When was the last time you ask the doctor how “How much is that treatment going to cost” Do you think the doctor even knows? Why can’t you the consumer compare prices and services for medical care at different hospitals and doctors offices? You compare prices and services for other things.

I have asked many times. The tyipical responce: “You have insurance don’t you?” So, why do you think insurance premiums are going through the roof? Awe my insurance will take care of it. Yea right! Insurance companies, owned by banks, are in it for profit. They are not going to loose.

Medicine is already socialized through insurance companies. All we worry about is the co-pay. Ever tried asking a doctors office, hospital, or pharmacy what the discount is if you pay with out insurance? Try 10% to 50%. Truly.

It is time to start comparing prices and services and let the medical profession compete for your business. This bring cost down. Think about it. Start doing it!

import · November 18, 2007, 9:13pm

Response from a Doctor - Posted by Ming Quan

Posted by Ming Quan on November 18, 2007 at 22:13:03:

Terry:

I am a physician in practice for over 20 years; I have also been your student.

First, let me offer you my best wishes for a good recovery.

Secondly, you’re touching upon a subject that I face each day, and which is now hotly debated in this presidential election season. I can seat with you and talk about this for days, but let me make two points:

Cost: Terry, medical care DOES cost this much…at least with the system that we have now in this country.I have sat in at Boards and Committees; things do cost that much. At times, particular parts of the system may seem like they are making a “killing” with the charges, but overall, most of health care’s moving parts, including doctors, and hospitals, are just making market income. Most hospitals are lucky if they are at break even. Very few doctors and nurses are in it for " the money"; you can do a lot better with many other lines of work and not have to spent half your life in training. Aside from perhaps a few health organization CEO’s , no one is laughing all the way to the bank.

Americans want the “best” in health care, and they want it now, and if it is not served just right, they want the opportunity to sue ! Terry…as long as Americans feel this way, health care will ALWAYS be expensive. Doesn’t matter what system you have.

While everyone complains of health care costing “too much”; I have had a difficult time getting people to tell me , how much should it cost ? I remember clearly a patient who gave my receptionist a hard time about having to pay a five-dollar co-payment , but oozed profusely how much she loved her $125.00 hairdo appointment from which she just came. Maybe she prioritizes her external appearance more than her inner
organ function; or perhaps, this has to do with my next point:

Health care is a right ? Many people have this idea; you seem to be saying that also. The logic goes like this: if this is a right as an American citizen, then why should I have to pay for it ? This argument goes deep to the core of the philosophy of life itself; I don’t want to touch it here, except to ask: how does it rank with freedom of speech, bear arms, free elections ?..even these have some “cost” . These may even “cost” more than just money.

In this country, if you have medical insurance, you are probably having the best care in the world. Bar none. You may have paid $15,000.00 , but the system allowed you to get the care, for that price. A point not often thought of: what if you want to pay that price, but the care is not available ? That would certainly be the lesser choice.

Don’t get me wrong; there are many problems. The major one is the lack of access by many millions to care in this country. You may think that money can solve it. No. For example, if everyone has access to care in this country, you will find that there are actually not enough primary care doctors and nurses to provide the services. Why ? Because for these two jobs, the pay is too low for the hard work and the malpractice risk. The money problem comes full circle.

Finally, I don’t believe “universal care” run by the uncle Sam is the answer. As with all government run systems it will be inefficient and costly. Those of you who are “high net worth” will seek out the private , non-government run services, which I believe will be even more expensive than today. You may look back at today with some nostalgia.

There is no easy answer; I have heard no panacea. Like all you, I am participating in this debate.
Just remember, if you have private health insurance, you are accessing the best quality of care in this world, and indeed, in the history of mankind, since the care is the culmination of all previous knowledge. Enjoy it (and treasure it a bit more ) while we still have it.

M. Ming Quan, M.D.

import · November 18, 2007, 12:07pm

Sick you wasted your time, eh? - Posted by DaveD (WI)

Posted by DaveD (WI) on November 18, 2007 at 13:07:36:

So you had a tough medical issue. Hope that doesn’t mean you are buying into the BS that socialized medicine is somehow superior.

You want to fix our health care? Let drug companies profit from their products, streamline the drug approval process, keep the trial attorneys on the sidelines, and let the consumers of medicine have a real choice and say-so in the level of care they desire, and what they are willing to pay for it. Ugh, that would be MORE free enterprise, Terry, and laughing at the bozos who think more government is the answer. It isn’t. And free health care isn’t a right, nor is it free.

import · November 18, 2007, 4:12am

Re: Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by Eric in FL

Posted by Eric in FL on November 18, 2007 at 05:12:42:

Terry,

As soon as I saw your post I knew this was going to get the juices flowing. This subject is very near and dear to my heart as an executive with a medical device company for years. I want to respond to your assertion that it is the country’s fault that you have to pay so much. I totally agree. During FDR’s “RAW DEAL” his beginning of a socially idiotic mindset created idiotic programs and hence “the mentality”. I will get back to “the mentality” in a second but the reason your insurance is so high is your state government’s mandated regulation of insurance. And because the companies can only spread their risk throughout the state and not the country in turn their rates are higher. Again government screws up the free market and is significantly contributing to the high costs. Lastly, “the mentality” that some how healthcare should be free. One, what kind of car do you drive? Two, where do you go out to eat and how many times a month? Third, what vacations do you take and where? Fourth, do you buy new furniture or other high dollar unneeded products? I think you get my point that healthcare should never be free and we are all spending money on ridiculous things but the most important factor for our long term happiness and lives is the access to high quality healthcare. When my buddy who is complaining about his healthcare premiuims of $1050 a month and he meets me at the wine bar in his new BMW 735 that he leases for his business for $1300 a month makes me chuckle. Thanks for the provocative post.

Best Regards,
Eric

import · November 18, 2007, 3:33am

Re: Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on November 18, 2007 at 04:33:21:

Terry:

My dad, who I know usually thought of everything had to pay obver $20,000 when had an operation for “pancreatic cancer” two years back.

He has Medicare, and then he got “medigap” thru Bluecross in NY to cover the gaps. So, he figured EVERYTHING is covered.

How wrong he was.

First, his hospital stay is ALL covered. But what he didn’t realize is that they throw you out of the hospital into REHAB, to make room for others. True, Medicare covers the first 2 months of rehab. But, in his condition, rehab would run 6 or more months at $300.00/day. Medicine is extra.

He was in Rehab, four months total, where he paid the $300/day himself after Medicaid ran out. How did he leave?? Well, he put his street clothes on one day when a nurse asked what he was doing. He said to the nurse “I’m checking myself out, and go call the cops if you want to stop me.”

BTW, when he got home, medicare insurance does not cover many drugs. One of them is “Procrit” that cost $1,800 for a refill that last three weeks. The pharmacy wanted a “certified check” in payment.

Oh, Medigap does cover rehab, if he knew what rehab was, (now he does) and pay extra for the endorsement. He’ll be covered if he’s got “long term care” insurance as well.

I pay for my own health care right now. I looked at lots of policies with “annual limits”, “lifetime limits”, and wonder what would happend to me if I got hit by a truck, and wind up in ICU for a year with them. Wouldn’t I run thru the annual and lifetime limits??

Yes, I read my policies carefully, and the one I’m paying for one that does not have annual or lifetime limits, and I got one that covers rehab way over the 60 days called for in the most “basic policy”.

I know many of you out there do not want universal health care. So, do we favor having individuals taking care of themselves with perhaps government credits.

Let me tell you, I run a business, and I have on the payroll people that I well know will have BIG problems if this is the case. I hired a charming fellow just to answer the phones, and manages to mess up every other thing he does with the usual answer: “I haven’t thought of it”. He had a blank look on his face when a lady in the office told him to heat up leftover pizza in the oven. Asked about his blank look, he explained he didn’t check to see if the new apartment he rented came with an oven.

Why?? His answer “I haven’t thought of it”.

Now, we expect this very same guy to think of every angle to cover himself and his family with health care. Good luck. Under most of the Republican health care plans, he’ll show up at the hospital some day, no insurance, and explain “I haven’t thought of it”.

I have other employees who get drunk over the weekend, needs a loan on Monday after getting paid on Friday. Wonder when they ever going to buy their health care.

Unfortunately, as a small business, I can’t carry them. And, I don’t yet have “long term care” either, (looking into it) meaning if I’m in a coma for a year or two, the family will be financially wipe out.

Frank Chin

import · November 17, 2007, 9:22pm

I thought it was his autobiography! - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on November 17, 2007 at 22:22:53:

(nt)

import · November 17, 2007, 7:08pm

Re: Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by IA Jeff

Posted by IA Jeff on November 17, 2007 at 20:08:06:

I read “The new Health Insurance Revolution”. The point I got from it was that people must take more responsibility for their health. The book explains the flaws in the way the insurance/healthcare system is set up…i.e. a few chronic sick people drive up costs drastically for the healthy. Also explains how the employee benifit got started and ways for small business to offer health insurance without all the cost.

When I quit the day J.O.B. 18 months ago, I purchased a high deductable policy for the family. My wife and I now think twice about going to the doctor, do self-diagnosis on minor stuff, and make attempts at getting discounts when we do get profesional help… and we are covered for a catastrophe.

import · November 17, 2007, 6:46pm

Re: Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by Matt

Posted by Matt on November 17, 2007 at 19:46:17:

I’m turning into an organic raw foodie freak. It feels great so far. The American health care system was the impetus behind the choice.

So far I haven’t directly been impacted by our health care industry. But it’s scary, even with insurance.

import · November 17, 2007, 3:23pm

It’s Called Murder by Spreadsheet. . . - Posted by Ed S-WA

Posted by Ed S-WA on November 17, 2007 at 16:23:28:

. . .and it’s fundamental business model of the health insurance industry: they make their money by denying sick people health care. It’s as simple as that.

import · November 17, 2007, 1:09pm

Re: Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by J.Barton

Posted by J.Barton on November 17, 2007 at 14:09:07:

I saw sicko and I have never seen a more biased view of health care. Moore made it seem like other nations have a perfect health caresystem (i.e. Canada, UK, France and Cuba). I don’t recall the documentary offering a single counter opinion of government health care. He insinuates that the US is just plain dumb for not following the other “perfect” social health care plans, when infact they are anything but perfect.

I found the “20/20 Sick in America: Whose Body is it Anyway?”(url below) mentioned in an earlier thread to be a much much more accurate view of health care. It addresses many more facts than Moores movie and they did in less than an hour with commercials.

Jason

import · November 17, 2007, 12:54pm

Gov’t will take care my Retirement and Health?!? - Posted by Billy_CA

Posted by Billy_CA on November 17, 2007 at 13:54:07:

Insurance and government healthcare system creates no insentive for medical/health provider to be competitive in price while providing care. Why should they when it’s FREE for all?

It makes perfect sense to buy Health Insurance Policy, increase the deductible and set up a seperate HSA. My family didn’t realize it until 5 years paying in the system and the co-pay hit us.

Terry, you may enjoy the show “20/20 Sick in America: Whose Body is it Anyway?”: 20/20 Sick in America: Whose Body is it Anyway? (1/6) - YouTube

Just a 2nd opinion.

Billy

import · November 17, 2007, 11:43am

Re: Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by Cletus

Posted by Cletus on November 17, 2007 at 12:43:29:

Terry,

I never worry about those items my insurance doesn’t cover. I just put them on my HootersCard.

The only downside is I have to get the doctors to write them up as ‘breast augmentation procedures’.

I’d sure hate to get called in for an audit…that Dolly Parton wig makes me itch.

Cletus

import · November 17, 2007, 9:48am

Re: Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by Rich-CA

Posted by Rich-CA on November 17, 2007 at 10:48:29:

Everything varies based not only on what state you are in, but which health plan you select. We used to carry Kaiser (we’re now covered through my wife’s employer) at $700 per month, but the out of pocket was very minimal (including when my wife had several cancer surgeries).

The alternative of Socialized medicine should be looked at in countries that have had a system in place for a couple of decades. The death rate for more serious ailments is substantially higher there than here and the quality of care is horrible. Sure, the Pols can claim everyone is covered, but when you really need the diagnostic tools the only thing you’re really covered with is the dirt they put over your coffin.

import · November 17, 2007, 8:50am

Dental is the worst scam… - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on November 17, 2007 at 09:50:32:

when my daughter was born we learned that in order to
have her covered, we had to start paying premiums at birth. In other words, we had to pay dental for someone with NO TEETH!!! Dropped our dental coverage nine years ago and never looked back.

import · November 17, 2007, 7:35am

Re: Just saw “SICKO” - Posted by LeonNC

Posted by LeonNC on November 17, 2007 at 08:35:46:

It’s kind of ironic but the COST of my healthcare makes me sick every month I pay it.

LeonNC