Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA on April 25, 2004 at 11:00:23:
…single parent.
I wish you the best of luck in your investments. You really need some luck to overcome your repressed hostility, and deep functional overlay.
Its because of folks like you that we advocate careful tenant screening, and asset protection plans.
Deny it though you may, your attitude and your vulgar e-mail betray your class: Declasse.
Have a nice day. doc
Get the kid off on the right foot… - Posted by Brenda Whittaker
Posted by Brenda Whittaker on April 23, 2004 at 23:51:10:
Ok. My kid is ready to move out on his own. He’s a great kid, already in college at age 17. I don’t want him to start off paying rent in a crowded apartment complex, so I found him a nice newer mobile home, in a park. The owner was an elderly woman who died and the family wants to get rid of it. It’s a new (2000) double wide 3 bd. 2 ba. in a very nice neighborhood with landscaping and sidewalks… it’s a new park, and just changed ownership. Lot rent is $260, that bothers me. It only includes sewer & trash. A neighbor showed me her appraisal for the same type of house, except that hers had a garage. The appraisal was $64,800. The owners (family) of the one I’m looking at are asking $48,000. She wants $20,000 down and will carry the rest, it’s free & clear.
Seems like a lot of money for a mobile in a park, but it’s new, it’s nice, it’s clean, it’s in a nice area which you get to by going through a not so nice area…
Problem is finding funding for these, and trying to figure out if the kid would be better off with something in which the land was his as well. I know I have to sign for the loan or co-sign, he has no credit yet of course, and he can take title in June when he’s 18. That would be good for the pysche - he deserves it, as responsible as he is. He can afford $600 per month.
I need to figure out an offer, find a lender for whatever the owner definately won’t carry, (low LTV) and decide if we want to pay a lot rent. Wouldnt’ want that rent to go up suddenly very high, and I wouldn’t want to be stuck with something that won’t sell when ready. There are families there, so it’s not a 55+ park, and renters are accepted.
Lender ideas? Park rent ideas? Any ideas? I’m going to get this kid off on the right foot, no matter what, and I can’t think of a better way than home ownership.
Lonnie, I need a little help here… - Posted by Greg Meade
Posted by Greg Meade on April 26, 2004 at 16:53:58:
this thread stated with me offering Brenda some advise on her son’s living situation. If you can find it, can you please repost that amazing post of “What goods are our schools?” or something like that? It was mind-numbing and it will vividly depict (huh?) what I am trying to express…thanks lonnie!
Greg
Re: Get the kid off on the right foot… - Posted by Charles
Posted by Charles on April 25, 2004 at 21:52:30:
I am just starting out trying to get my first deal going in the mobile home business. Everyone who says buy Lonnies book is giving pretty good advice. I bought it and it is pretty much the “mobile home investors bible” to me. Unfortunately there are people on this sight who, rather than just explain ways to help, seem to want to make themselves feel better by berating others. I don’t know why that it is but then again I don’t know a lot of things. Although most people you meet on here are very knowledgeable about investing and helpful, there are those rare few that unfortunately, have mouths.
the right foot is the wrong foot… - Posted by Greg Meade
Posted by Greg Meade on April 24, 2004 at 08:00:18:
if you want to help your son. read in archives about “upside down”. the investors on this board try to buy wholesale and sell retail. I would not spend over 12k for a 2000 d/w in any park unless i could pre sell it for 30% more.
you sound like a caring parent so i am going to go out on a limb and give you an example of really helping your child. I buy and sell homes for a living and 1 week ago had a call from the Keys…a young girl (19) wanting my 1999 homes of Merit 28X66 3/2 for 30k. Was starting UF in Aug and needed housing.
the next day Papa called and asked what else i had on my lot. After much discussion they drove up and Pop wrote a check for a 1971 Puff 2/1 in pristine condition, 7,500 del and set! he owns a marina in the Keys and seven oceanfront homes…net worth? Maybe 70M (or more). He also bought a 160 X160 lot in a mobile community near UF in gainesville for 12k and 6 more to improve. so to recap, for 25k (about 1 years tuition, etc) he can provide very clean,safe housing for his daughter and in his words,“after graduation,we will have no problem selling this package for a tidy profit for a down payment on a nice home for graduation present” WOW! That is getting off on the right foot. and teaching your child the real value of money,there will be no increases in rent,etc. Buy Lonnies book, read it …have your son read it. Post where you are from…someone might can help from this board Good Luck
Greg
Re: What’s Wrong With Our Schools?.. - Posted by Lonnie
Posted by Lonnie on April 26, 2004 at 18:06:16:
Hi Greg,
Here’s the article you requested.Hope it helps to show what our educational system is like.The last time I posted this article, I got a ton of flack from a Chicago school teacher. But in the words of a wise man “You only get flack when you’re over the target”.
What?s Wrong With Our Schools?
It seems that our school system teaches everything except how to go out into the real world and survive. How many high school graduates do you know that can balance a check-book, or understands anything about money and financing? Some of them can?t do simple things like making change unless the cash register rings up the correct amount that?s due. If a burger joint looses power, some of the clerks can?t make change for a $20.00 bill.
Ask some of our younger (and older) generation if they understand the time value of money and compounding of interest and all you get is a blank stare. But some of these same people are experts at some idiotic computer game. They?ve spent many, many hours learning how to play games, but no time learning how to make money or how to be financially secure.
I recently read an article stating that the average student spends 15,000 hours going to school before they graduate, but they spend 19,000 hours watching TV during that same period. And you have to wonder just what they did with the 15,000 hours in school, seeing that some of them can hardly read or write when they graduate.
Last month I got a call from such a man wanting information on a mobile home I had for sale. This man had a wife and a small child and were living with friends. They were trying to find a place of their own, but would need financing in order to buy anything. When I asked him how much he would be able to pay down on the mobile home, his answer was, ? I don?t have much of anything right now, I just bought a new car and my payments are $400 month?. This man has a family and no place to live and buys a new car with $400 monthly payments! Talk about having your priorities in order. It was all I could do to keep from telling that man what I was thinking. But I kept quiet and told him I wouldn?t be able to offer him any help.
How can you help someone with a mind that works like his does? What did this man learn during those 15,000 hours he spent in school? Couldn?t have been much, but he graduated. But I?ll bet he can whiz right through some dumb computer game.
I felt both anger and sadness and couldn?t help but think about this man and his family and the life they were destined to live. I wonder what his financial position would be if the schools had taught him something about investing his money, and financing. I?ve done some ?supposing? to see just how much better off he would be if he had acquired the knowledge and had the financial discipline that?s required to be successful…
Suppose some of those 15,000 hours in school had been used to teach this man about money, financing and compounding of interest. What could he have done with his $400 monthly payments that would be much, much better than spending it on a car that?s depreciating faster than he can make the payments? Let?s play with some numbers and see what might have happened with a little education and knowledge
Let?s suppose the car this man bought cost $20,000 and he either traded or paid $2,000 down, leaving $18,000 to be financed. If the payments are $400 month and the finance company charged 12% interest, it would take 60 months to pay the loan off. If he makes all the payments, he will pay $24,000, and have a car that is worth very little at the end of those 60 months. But if he?s like many people, he will trade that car long before it?s paid for and start all over with a new one. That car will keep him broke and he probably won?t even understand why he?s always broke. And those computer games didn?t teach him anything about how expensive cars really are.
But let?s suppose instead of buying a new $20,000 car, he bought a nice used $10,000 car, and either traded or paid the same $2,000 down and financed $8,000. If he could get financing for this car for 60 months, 12% interest, his payments would be $178. At the end of 60 months he will have paid $10,680 for a nice used car, instead of $24,000 for that new car, a difference of $13,320.
Now let?s suppose he had the proper education and knowledge and knew how to invest the difference ($222) each month in something that earns 12% interest, instead of paying it on a depreciating car. Let?s see what his financial position would be in 60 months?
If he could invest $222 each month and make it earn 12% interest, he would have $18,130 at the end of 60 months. And if he was really smart and left that $18,130 invested for another 60 months, he would have $32,937. But because the schools didn?t teach him how to do that, he winds up with a worn out car every 60 months instead of financial security.
Let?s go even further and see how he could build up financial security and not have to depend on social security (if it?s even around), or a small retirement check from working a job when he reaches retirement age. Suppose at the end of 5 years this man will be 30 years old and he will have $18,130,. If he just left that $18,130 invested at 12% until he was 65 (35 years), that $18,130 will compound to $1,184,000. And if he learned how to make the same $18,130 earn 15%, just 3% more, he would wind up at age 65 with $3,344,000. The power of compounding has been called the 8th wonder of the world, and the schools teach their students very little, if anything about it.
Why don?t the schools teach their students this sort of thing? Why don?t they teach students how to make money, how to save and invest part of their earnings and how to build financial security? Could it be that maybe the teachers don?t know and never learned about it either? Whatever the reason, 95% of the people reach retirement age and can?t afford to retire. And most will need help from someone to pay the bills.
If the schools had only taught this young man how driving a used car for 5 years, and how investing money on a regular basis and the power of compounding will make you financially secure in your old age, maybe there wouldn?t be so many old folks that need financial help from someone in order to live a decent life when they are no longer able to work. But like this man, many will still be making car payments and still be broke and still won?t understand why life is so tough. What?s wrong with our schools?
Re: Get the kid off on the right foot… - Posted by Brenda Whittaker
Posted by Brenda Whittaker on April 26, 2004 at 13:44:29:
Thank you Charles. What are you doing in your first mobile home deal? Here, the mobiles in the MLS that are already on their own land, are listed between $106,000 to $189,000. Amazing. Sure, land is valuable, but that seems way high for mobiles.
As for the mouth, yes, it is unfourtunate. I have had to block his emails because he sends more insults to me, and I don’t read any of his postings here, for obvious reasons. People say he’s not wrong, but how can it be right to tell a good mom she has no compassion for her son because she sent him to college?! It is incomprehensible.
Mouths - Posted by Jeffery (LCLA)
Posted by Jeffery (LCLA) on April 26, 2004 at 07:26:11:
Charles, the person that I suppose you are talking about is one of the greatest contributors to this board. Not only does he offer great business advise, but also food for thought. The advise that he gave in his first post was right on the money and NOT defamitory. It was excellent advise for any parent wanting to help their child. The title of the original post whas “get the kid off on the right foot”. I have a higher education and aside from REI, none of my education taught me how to make money, only how to get a job to make money for others. My kids are 10 and 11 and yes, they have their own rentals. They were Christmas gifts from me. For my upcomming wedding, I’m working on a deal to buy an entire MHP as a wedding gift. My kids will be going to college, but they will have a great business by the time they get there.
I think you, sir, have not read enough of the posts of “the mouth” to fully understand his intentions.
Regards,
Jeffery (LCLA)
Excellent advice. + my .02 cents worth. - Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA
Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA on April 24, 2004 at 12:28:54:
Whatever you consul him to buy, he should start off right by paying wholesale for it. To suggest that he pay retail for a mobile home (or for anything else) is not helping him do anything other than get nearer to the point of being over his head in debt. If he buys a mobile he should buy a late model repo for 30 cents on the dollar, put it on a permanent foundation and use the savings to pay for his own lot. If he does things well he may be able to achieve what is essentially ‘free’ rent through the appreciation in his property.
If you want him to learn to handle money, and people at the same time, why not have him buy a 4-plex, at such price and terms that he can live rent free by collecting rent from (and managing) the other tenants.
If you are really serious about his success consider forgetting college and sending him to the Lonnie Scruggs Institute of Millionaire Makers. If he follows instructions well he can later buy his own University.
Why send him to college now so he can get a job, and then later have him need to go into real estate investing to learn how to make money?
How much will you pay for his college? Why not grubstake him to a REAL future instead?
You want to help your own son and yet you seem to be proposing to chain his nose to a grindstone (job) for 45 years???
As a loving parent you should want to help your son learn how to avoid having to work all his life just to get by. Where is your compassion?
Regards, doc
avoid depreciation - Posted by Philip
Posted by Philip on April 24, 2004 at 08:06:29:
by using the methods, or similar ones, that Greg described.
You can buy a lot, a very nice older SW, have it all set up for much less than the figures you are quoting.
And it will appreciate.
The book by Lonnie Scruggs, Deals on Wheels explains how to do this from an investors point of view.
You would not have to follow it exactly, but close, and still come out waaaayyy good.
Philip
thank you, Lonnie… - Posted by Greg Meade
Posted by Greg Meade on April 26, 2004 at 20:57:04:
this article had a most profound affect on my life. Trying to be the good Dad, taught my kids (5) to stick it out at one Union job, don’t miss work, show loyalty, save extra cash, etc. etc.
I now spend several hours per week trying to un-teach some of this as all I really did was teach them to make money for others. There is a really touching letter in Archives from Chuck AZ to you in 2001 or so. He was thankful for this article, so am I.
Greg Meade
take a step back - Posted by Steve-WA
Posted by Steve-WA on April 26, 2004 at 14:17:55:
Brenda, at first look, you have every right to smite doc - you don’t know him.
First, the emails are probably just notifications from the board here that you got a reply - if that is true (“**** has jsut replied to your post at creonline - click this link to go directly to it . . .”) then don’t hold it against the guy.
I have not known doc to pursue - “e-stalk” - anyone beyond one email that was not through the board.
I also have not known doc to let go of anything once he gets his teeth set - you reply, he’ll reply - you reply again, he’ll reply - he’s a real “last word” kind of guy, and it can seem annoying (to say the least, eh?)
But he is not often literal in his meaning.
“telling a good mom she has no compassion for her son because she sent him to college” - - - is not what he meant, it’s just doc’s way of slamming the education system in this country - and rightfully so. It’s not YOUR fault, and I do not believe that doc is meaning it is your fault that the system is what it is, but he can be easily taken out of context.
The education system in th is country is built around the model of the industrial revolution in the early part of the (last) century, through WWII. But the model of “go to school and get a good job, your employer will take care of you” just does not apply any more. Where will your son’s social security benefit be, for example. He’s working, or will be, and putting money into it, but he’ll never see it. Today, a person just has to look out for themselves, and entrepreneurshipisticism (my word) is the spirit of doing just that.
You’re asking about smart choices for a first home, and doc is replying with an answer to achieving financial freedom. Off the mark. But he is not one to see that, nor probably apologize if he does.
Grain of salt, Brenda. Do not take his comments too literally, if you’d like my advice. You’re a good mom, or you wouldn’t even be asking. Doc is just answering a question you didn’t ask.
He’s just one of those guys, the old curmudgeon. “Hey, you kids! Get the he// out of my yard!”
. . . for what it’s worth . . .
Re: Mouths - Posted by Charles
Posted by Charles on April 26, 2004 at 14:03:09:
If someone were to write the same letter to you, you would be up in arms over an individual saying, “Where’s your Compassion” for your son. Say that to a mother looking for advice to help her child??? Was it REALLY neccesary to say that? I really didn’t see how that was helpful information and that was what she was asking for…helpful information. Not a strangers views on parenting skills. Like i said before, I know that there are helpful people here. Heck, the good doctor gave me some advice once. And it was good advice! Unfortunatley, it also came with a sarcastic remark that i could have done without. Can’t recall what the usefull info he gave me was…nor can i remember the useless remark he said…BUT i can remember that it was not needed… thats all i’m saying. Kinda like buying a lady a nice dress (good info for those still tuning in) and then saying she looks awful in it…(useless crap) That is my SILVER DOLLAR.
Re: Mouths - Posted by Brenda Whittaker
Posted by Brenda Whittaker on April 26, 2004 at 13:28:57:
The point is, the mouthy guy was out of line to attack me personally, by saying my head was full of holes, my son didn’t get where he is because of me, that I am a typical welfare mother, and that I lack compassion for my own son. How is that ok? Those were personal unwarrented attacks, he was being verbally abusive. He even emails me with name-calling. I have had to block his email address from my incomming mail, and I don’t read anything he’s posted, to protect myself from this verbal abuse. He went outside of giving investment advice, to intentionally upset and insult a good person he knows nothing about. He was wrong. Having some good business savvy does not give anyone license to attack.
Re: Excellent advice. + my .02 cents worth. - Posted by Brenda Whittaker
Posted by Brenda Whittaker on April 24, 2004 at 16:15:52:
First of all, how dare you ask where my compassion is. You know nothing about my compassion, and that was out of line.
Second, he’s going to a community college because it’s better than nothing at this point. He is keeping his mind excercised, taking calculus, advanced english, and philosophy. We can’t afford a university and got a pell grant for the local college, so while he decides what direction he wants to take, he is working on an Associate’s degree and I am paying nothing. I dout if the Lonnie Scruggs Millionaire class would accept a pell grant. At this point, he has no interest whatsoever in being a real estate investor, or a landlord, and if that’s his choice, that’s fine. As a single mom, I think I’m doing pretty good raising a bright, straight, clean cut, drug free, responsible child in this challenging world, and you have insulted someone you know nothing about with your careless remark.
Third, I have already been looking at multi-family units, there are none that aren’t top retail price, and even at the high prices they are asking, they get bought up quickly. The prices don’t justify the incomes, we have not found an opportunity there. I have been looking for over a year now.
Fourth, land here is very high, and how is he going to buy a piece of land for a wholesale mobile? He has no credit, and I have too much debt to income. We live in rural Arizona, where wages are very low for unskilled labor. People here make $7 per hour without benefits, unless they are in medical, education, or own their own business. Point is, it’s not possible to get a loan for a vacant piece of land to put your repo mobile on. Sure, maybe I can find private money for something that’s priced 65% below value, but nothing like that has shown up for us. And what do you mean “use the savings to buy his own lot”? Don’t you need that lot to put the house on? Where are you supposed to put that repo mobile in the meantime, while you are “saving”?
Your advice is full of holes, and if you are going to be insulting, keep your 2 cents.
Re: avoid depreciation - Posted by Brenda Whittaker
Posted by Brenda Whittaker on April 24, 2004 at 16:33:20:
Thank you Philip. I haven’t read the book yet, I’ll keep it in mind. I have to wonder how you sell these, because I dont’ know where funding for older mobiles comes from. I’ve never done anything with older mobiles, but it would be handy knowledge because my local area is full of them.
Brenda W.
Re: Mouths - Posted by patrick
Posted by patrick on April 28, 2004 at 21:16:59:
Brenda it really seems like Doc was giving you valuable advice on keeping you and your son from making a huge mistake and you were too emotional to see that.
I hope that everyone else here can remember that we are here to listen, offer lessons from our experiences and make money.
Doc, I hope that the bad apple Brenda will not keep you from replying and giving your valued advice.
Thanks.
Not so - Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA
Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA on April 26, 2004 at 15:29:46:
The things that you mention that I wrote to you were NOT in response to your ORIGINAL post. They were in response to YOUR NAME CALLING post. You seem to be conveniently overlooking this. You act like a victim, lying in wait for an attacker, so you can call “wolf wolf”. Baa Baaa. Baaad girl.
I’d like to have some time to search the court records where you live. I wonder how many people you have sued? Am I getting warm Brenda? Won’t do you any good with me. I am judgment proof. I have encountered people like you before. Forewarned is forearmed. Give it your best shot Brenda.
You sent me 2 obscene e-mails. I sent you 2 e-mails in response to your comments. My responses may not have been what you wanted to hear but they weren’t X-rated as yours were.
My reputation is in the archives, yours is in the gutter, where your mind is.
You need more help that this board can give. You sound like a complete fruitcake. As a fruitcake, you bring out the baker instinct in me, by taking offense where none was intended, and hanging on like a rabid dog.
Regards, doc
Intentions - Posted by Jeffery (LCLA)
Posted by Jeffery (LCLA) on April 26, 2004 at 13:52:22:
Brenda, I would like to finish this conversation outside of this forum. Mainly because we are way off topic. I invite you to send me an email simply by clicking on my name above.
Re: Excellent advice. + my .02 cents worth. - Posted by Gavin Wilkinson
Posted by Gavin Wilkinson on April 24, 2004 at 17:46:16:
Brenda:
Dr. Whisler has taken his valuable time and given you a free bit of advice, that in my mind is worth $1000 to $50,000.
You seem to be upset with him. Please put aside your irritation and read his message. No, he didn’t sugar coat it. But pay attention to his advice. Then, if you want you can ignore it. But he’s right.
How many offers have you made at 65% of value? How many owner carry offers have you made on lots? When you tell me you have made 500 offers and not had any accepted, e-mail me and I will apologize…I suspect Doc would too. But I know you have not done much…
Buy the repo mobile from a bank and buy the land at the same time. Hire a company to move the mobile on to your lot and set it up.
Good Luck!