what my mentor told me...... - Posted by spidergal

Posted by ChrisW on December 19, 2002 at 17:41:29:

Ron,

I don’t know if you know this and I think you do but colleges do sell “educational material” and it’s called text books and tuition.

You say that investors that don’t disclose all the details are deliberately lying to people.

Ron, what do you think using a subject to is all about? Why do investors transfer beneficial interest without letting the buyers and lenders know?

They do this so to avoid the due on sale judgement. Is it not?

Are we all morally incorrect people for doing this?

Chris

what my mentor told me… - Posted by spidergal

Posted by spidergal on December 18, 2002 at 14:24:01:

hi everyone,
This is exactly what happened to me three days ago…
recenly i found a mentor about real estate investing,i followed him for about a week. He said there is a great convention about investing in Houston and keep asking me to go with him and his teams. at first i feel convinced and even gave my credit card number to him to get an air ticket online. later on, my parents told me not to go as it’s kinda far since i’m staying in california. then i told my mentor that i don want to go now, maybe next time. then my mentor suddenly changed his face and said, " you sounds like a loser! if you don’t go with me to Houston, you don’t have to come and see me for training anymore, i don’t want to waste time on loser like you!" then he keep saying some bad things about my parents and my friends as he thought my friends ask me not to go.
Can anyone tell me what u think about this happening? i’m still a newbie in investing and i 'm so surpirsed that people call me loser if i don’t follow what they tell me to do.

please give me some advice.

spidergal
a newbie just starting out

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by Kathi

Posted by Kathi on December 21, 2002 at 17:17:51:

You may wish to contact the Real Estate Investment Club of Houston (RICH Club). It would be a great place to network with both seasoned and new investors. Happy Investing!!!

Cancel your credit card immediately - Posted by Eddy (CT)

Posted by Eddy (CT) on December 19, 2002 at 11:55:48:

spidergal,
Call your credit card company to see if any recent charges were made that you did not authorize. See if you can reverse/cancel any charges for airline tickets, then cancel your card. You can apply for another one. This ‘mentor’ sounds like a scam artist to me. Cancel your airline reservation(s), if any were made.

Just my 2 cents. Good Luck,
Eddy

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by Lee

Posted by Lee on December 19, 2002 at 09:37:54:

Hey, spidergal!

First, don’t ever give your credit card number to a jerk like that for a ticket. Buy your own ticket if you want to go somewhere. Be careful, O.K.?

Second, maybe he had other plans for you in Houston, if you know what I mean? I don’t know how old you are, or what you look like, but I have heard about stuff like this before. Be safe, O.K.?

Other than that, you can get a lot of good information about real estate investing at this site (with hardly any risk to your personal safety) and with only having to deal with an occasional jerk. There is even help here for you to find a real estate investor’s club near you for you to learn more in your local market.

Don’t let the guy you were dealing with stop you.

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by Jim Kennedy - Houston, TX

Posted by Jim Kennedy - Houston, TX on December 18, 2002 at 23:56:13:

Hi spidergal,

It sounds to me like your “mentor” has some very peculiar interpersonal relationship skills. Find a new mentor.

Since I live in Houston, I’d be interested to know a few things about the “convention” your mentor was pushing:

When is it scheduled to take place?
Who are the speakers?
Who is sponsoring the event?
How would one contact the sponsor for more information?

Best of Success!!

Jim Kennedy,
Houston, TX

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by bob

Posted by bob on December 18, 2002 at 19:55:27:

This so-called ‘mentor’ is the loser. Forget about him, and don’t let his attitude discourage you from moving forward on your own. What goes around comes around. God will deal with him, don’t waste another minute thinking about him.

Bob.

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on December 18, 2002 at 15:42:10:

“Spider Gal”-------------

I agree with what the other posters have said.

You don’t need an abusive person to teach you. I advocate “self-mentoring.” I have a post that gives my advice on beginning your investment career. You can find it by putting “beginners success” into the search function at the top of the main bullletinboard forum of this CREONLINE.COM website. Look for the most recent version–in Sept, 2002, I think.

Now, I don’t think your parents gave you good advice either. But they know you better than I do, so maybe what they said made sense for you. There is no reason to pay big bucks for rah-rah excitement “conventions.” That is not to say that all conventions are worthless, but there are a lot that have only a motivational value, in my opinion. Many of them have speakers whose only purpose is to sell you their high-priced educational materials. And usually those materials are low-grade. Of course, I cannot comment on the value of the convention you were thinking of attending.

Good InvestingRon Starr*****

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by tampasteph

Posted by tampasteph on December 18, 2002 at 14:57:37:

Sounds like a real jerk.
I wouldn’t waste my time with someone who disrespected me like that.
I would cancel your credit card and tell him to take a hike.

Good luck,
Steph

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by tyler, nc

Posted by tyler, nc on December 18, 2002 at 14:37:26:

One, you might want to close your credit card acct. if you gave him the numbers. Two, you can do better. Find local rei associations and start attending the meetings/network. good luck.

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by pete everly

Posted by pete everly on December 18, 2002 at 14:27:58:

Spidey,

Where are you based in California? I’m heading out there for vacation and am in the process of getting into some deals there. Maybe we can brainstorm or something. I’ve not as experienced as an investor as many others out there, but I can lend a helping hand. Let me know. I am not affiated with any systems or the like. In fact, I advocate cheapskate investing by reading many real estate books. Maybe I can point you in the right direction.

Pete

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by ChrisW

Posted by ChrisW on December 18, 2002 at 18:53:19:

Mr. ******, I agree with you for the most part but how is the real estate investnment “conventions” much different from traditional “conventions” of secondary education?

Surely not everyone that participates in higher learning can achieve higher result.

People have different skills and experience. A real estate seminar ( $5000 ) can minimize the learning curve.

To attend one “thinking” that it’s the solution to financial freedom is comical.

Chris

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on December 18, 2002 at 22:02:36:

Chris----------------

Not having attended any secondary education convention I cannot do a comparison for you. Sorry. All I can do is tell what I have seen and concluded.

From my observation, most of the “conventions” about real estate investing are misnamed. I’m not sure that there is a suitable word for them. Maybe something like a sales attempt. They are a collection of sales presentations to the participants. I have gone to conventions as early as the early '80s, although not for a while now.

The so-called “conventions” have the format of a person doing a speach or “presentation” which is seen by the uninitiated as an educational experience. The presenter or speaker, discusses some approach to investing or some techniques of investors, or some source of purchases and gives some information about how the whole thing works. Then s/he mentions his/her educational materials about this topic which can be bought from the people who are sponsoring the convention. End of presentation.

Then there is another presenter talking about a different subject and the format repeats. Typically there are two or three speakers in a day. Sometimes there is some other meeting at which no particular product is being sold, just a presentation about the topic, typically, when dealing with real estate investing, urging people who are not already real estate investors to get into it. There may be some other variations such as some awards to people who have been outstanding investors or to speakers who are “outstanding educators or speakers.”

But the whole thrust of the event, from the presenters and the sponsor’s viewpoint, is to sell those materials. After the convention is over, the speakers/presenters get an accounting of how many people were counted at the event or at their presentation and then their gross sales volume is presented, then the calculation is made of number of dollars of sales per head of attendees. Typically, it was about $40-$120 a head when I was in touch with these events.

Sometimes there may actually be something to be learned at the presentations. Always there is something to be bought.

My observation is that the speakers who lie the most sell the most. Those who can get the particpants pumped up emotionally tend to sell the best. The quality of the materials is typically unrelated to the amount of the materials sold. The usual “convention” that I attended sold materials which ranged from dismal in quality to pretty good, depending upon the particular author of the materials. And some of those who were genuinely successful investors had poor materials because they were not good teachers or good writers. It is my belief that some of the speakers did not write their own “educational materials,” as I know of a couple of people who worked as ghost writers for speakers.

And the “package” prices were always much higher than those for books which can be bought in bookstores. When tradional real estate investing books were selling for $15 to $30 in bookstores, the “packages” of the books and tapes of the speakers typically sold for about $275 to $600 each. Many of them had less educational value, in my opinion, than the average bookstore book on real estate investing.

But this is a very inefficient marketing method. The sponsor’s had huge overhead for advertising and costs of the hotel rooms where the conventions were held. And they had to split the profit with the speakers, “authors.”

Please understand that I am speaking about conventions I attended in the past. I have not attemded a CREONLINE.COM convention. I can not comment on what those are like. From the comments posted here on CREONLINE.COM by attendees at the CREONLINE.COM conventions, there seems to be a great enthusiasm for them. Many people seem to find them so much to their liking that they attend them repeatedly. That I take to be a good sign. That the attendees have not gone home, cooled down and then though: “Whoa, I was sold a bill of goods. I’m not going to that thing again.”

What are secondary education conventions like? Anything like what I have described?

Good InvestingRon Starr*****

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by ChrisW

Posted by ChrisW on December 19, 2002 at 10:29:09:

Ron, I am refering to secondary convention as in conventional thinking with secondary education…ie…colleges, universities, etc…

Earlier you stateed that,

“My observation is that the speakers who lie the most sell the most.”

I don’t think they lie as much as they withhold information from people. Most investors do that anyway, right? : )

Chris

Re: what my mentor told me… - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)

Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on December 19, 2002 at 14:46:34:

Chris W----------

At the colleges I went to the emphasis was on thinking, understanding, analyzing. I see that as trying to get in touch with reality. This seems to me to be the exact opposite of what the people putting on real estate conventions do. They want you as a participant to get excited about investing in real estate and buy their “educational materials”–which, in the back room, they call “product.”

There were some professors at my colleges who had written textbooks and so we had to buy them for some of the classes. In that way they are like real estate conventions.

The ethos in the classes I took was typically to try to understand reality. However, there is a tendency for the practitioners to be committed to some view of the world, which they then try to prove or justify. However, with enough real-world evidence or data against them, they will either give up their old views or else move to some other problem to work on, avoiding changing their view. This is, in my opinion, human nature. The scientists and other researchers try to go beyond it and help us develop better models of reality, but it is difficult even for them. As Rosen indicated, the scientific paradigms shift when new, less-indoctrinated researchers come in and absorb new ways of thinking and ignore the old ones of their professors.

Well, whenever we communicate we cannot take the time to tell everything that crosses our minds. I’m not doing so here. However, deliberately withholding all of the possible negatives about real estate investments seems to me like lieing. If you have not read Jack Reed’s website about selling educational materials and gurus, I recommend it. He mentions that many speakers or presenters claim to be investing in real estate when it is unlikely that that is the case. I know that Dave Del Dotto only invested in something like 3 or 4 properties before he made his fortune by being a guru.

I think I will stand by my statement. Many of the speakers at real estate conventions I have seen are not honest. Some may be. Only a few are clearly so.

Good InvestingRon Starr*****