What a farce!!! Have JP and Terry and Ed seen this??? - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by chris on April 12, 2000 at 02:47:46:


What is really ironic about the whole thing that the Webmaster started over there is that he now posts a message directing folks to a new Christian post “For those of you who desire to walk peacefully and in harmony with those of all faiths…”

I must have missed the peaceful part of his post yesterday when he got the ball rolling.

Oh Well.


What a farce!!! Have JP and Terry and Ed seen this??? - Posted by Mark (SDCA)

Posted by Mark (SDCA) on April 10, 2000 at 11:42:51:

There is a discussion about whether Terry and Ed are “scam artists”. In fact, the editor of the web page is asking for private emails for people who believe that they ARE scam artists.

I posted a mildly positive comment about the Lender seminar. (I’m just not a huge fan of seminars…) And the post got deleted. Then I posted a reposnes asking if the original post was a setup since the only positive reply got immediately deleted. Of course, THAT post go deleted as well…

Here is the URL for a laugh…

Well, the censor didn’t like the URL… Oh well… Email me if you want it. The site is Cyber Real Estate.

Re: What a farce!!! Have JP and Terry and Ed seen this??? - Posted by Rushtopher

Posted by Rushtopher on April 12, 2000 at 16:19:26:

Confused, why can’t the URL be posted?

I believe that site is for naive, cyber-challenged realtors. - Posted by FJW

Posted by FJW on April 11, 2000 at 11:23:02:


Wow, you’re right. Don’t try to post the URL.

As you know, I saw those posts also. Very poor taste. If they actually were done by the webmaster or editor, a formal appology should be made to JP, Terry, and Ed.

Why that site is soliciting “creative” real estate investors I don’t know. Even their “about us” link emphasizes the “traditional” industry. I also found it to be very slow…extremely slow…not what I would consider to be effective if I were claiming to be the latest and greatest in technology. I found, of the investor information I managed to access, the investor information was more suggestive than definitively informative. Sort of like those info-ads you might see in your Sunday paper about what a “Realtor” can do for you…ie. Q:“Can a realtor help me with investment properties?” A: Absolutely, your’re local realtor is a trained professional…blah, blah, blah

In my opinion, it’s a marketing ploy to sell web sites with a bundle of generic features to the thousands of realtors and perhaps investors who would rather let someone else take care of the latest avenue of cyber-marketing.


Both threads are gone… - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on April 11, 2000 at 10:32:57:

Whether from the threat of legal action or from embarrasment at being an idiot, the threads have been taken down.

I suggest that each of us write a private email to the webmaster of that site and let them know this type of behavior is not tolerated among those of us that are professionals. I did so and feel better already!


It’l backfire. - Posted by MDonovan

Posted by MDonovan on April 11, 2000 at 09:43:21:

Most people are not that stupid. They will come here and make their own judgements. It’s free advertising. Watch the posting rate here go up.

Re: What a farce!!! Have JP and Terry and Ed seen this??? - Posted by Ed Garcia

Posted by Ed Garcia on April 11, 2000 at 03:03:12:

This day has saddened me.

I humbly would like to thank those who have come to my defense.

J.P. Vaughan has brought this to my attention yesterday.

I don’t know these people. I don’t know why they would find pleasure
in putting me under attack. They have never been to my workshop.

If they knew anything about my workshop, they would realize that it’s
geared towards experienced investors. I have let some newbie’s attend if
they demonstrated that they were committed or were going full time.

You can’t fool experienced investors, a newbie can be misled because they
may not know the difference in the information, therefore can be easily sold.
Experienced investor expect and demand much more.

I’ve had real-estate brokers, mortgage brokers, commercial real-estate brokers,
attend our workshop. The SUCCESS STORIES that came from our workshop are
from real participants who have either met me at a convention or the workshop,
but prior to that, did not know me or Terry Vaughan.

The workshop is the Sizzle on the steak, The value of the workshop is the mentoring.
When you do a workshop, the information no matter how good it is, is hypothetical
and general, and may not be applicable to the investor. The mentoring makes the
difference. When mentoring, were no longer talking hypothetically, but are one on one
with the individual, and apply the information that is applicable to them.

Terry and I do three months of mentoring. We do not use assistants who may have only
a few years of experience on the participants. The participants pay for us, and that’s what they get.

I don’t think anyone can question the generosity I give with my time. I want to be there when
they need me. To me Deal making is PARAMOUNT. I’ve burnt the midnight candle with many
of my participants when need be. 10 p.m. is a norm. Saturday’s and Sunday’s are a norm.

I can’t begin to tell you the THRILL and HIGH I get, when I’ve walked someone through a deal.
I can’t tell you the PAIN I feel when we’ve lost one.

This explanation was for you not them.

As for them, I feel it often shows a fine command of language to say nothing, and that’s what I’ll do.

Ed Garcia

I just wasted 30 minutes… - Posted by Mike Kimbrough

Posted by Mike Kimbrough on April 11, 2000 at 24:21:57:

Well, I just wasted 30 minutes reading some of the posts on that other site. I did so because I try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. Here are some of the conclusions that I came to.

First I tried to find some of the “free” information on how to do deals that they say is available on the site. If it’s there they got it hid pretty well! Looked at the articles section. They have no information on how to do a land trust, L/O, or wrap. All those things are here for the taking.

Most of the posts on the discussion board had to do with Real Estate news, ie. who made 7.5mln, or Prudential buys 17000 ipx virtual tours. I am a licensed agent and I don’t care what the chairman of Cendant made or how Prudential spends their agents money. All I am interested in is how to increase my equity, cashflow or bank account.

As for the attack on this site, I would be flattered. I have been reading this site since 1995 and have bought some courses and gone to a few seminars. I have not been disappointed even once. I am amazed at the amount of help a new investor can gleen from just reading and paying attention to this site. As for Ed Garcia, I called him from here in Dallas to ask about a apartment complex I was looking at, he spent an hour on the phone with me and he knew up front that he was not going to get the loan. So JP, Terry and ED get my vote for good guys.

Mike Kimbrough

PS: Creonline is at the top of my bookmarks, that other place didn’t make the cut.

Re: What a farce!!! Have JP and Terry and Ed seen this??? - Posted by Nadine

Posted by Nadine on April 10, 2000 at 20:51:00:

Sorry if I seem rude but help is help and opinions are just that. I am a newbie of only a month and I would not be the owner of 3 sfh and 1 rental if it were not for JP and all of CRE. Don’t look a “gift” horse in the mouth,nor should you bad mouth anyone. Remember what you send out ALWAYS comes back 10 fold. If you send out negativity that is what you will receive. Good luck to anyone who understands.

Well I guess… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on April 10, 2000 at 18:44:46:

that their business plan for their site must not be based on helping do RE, but on getting hits to their site. I must admit that I went their to check it out, and made a post, dont know if it will stay up but, I did it anyway.

Everything’s already been said about Ed, Terry, JP that needs to be said as far as their integrity, willingness to share, and the help they have provided.

But, that’s OK, I’ll say it again to all those that have helped me. Terry, JP, Jeanne, Dirk for the sight that greatly increased my learning curve. Ed, for the hours he has spent helping on the phone helping look at deals through a better light.

And then theirs everyone else that I dont want to go into names because I’d forget a name or two and bruise an EGO of a friend or two, and I value the friendships created here far too much.

So thank you for the Information, courses, seminars, and lifelong friendships.

David Alexander

Interesting Coincidence… - Posted by chris

Posted by chris on April 10, 2000 at 17:02:32:

That website(can’t type the URL here or the censor kicks in) has their big conference on the same days as the Lender’s workshop run by Ed and Terry. Is this a way for them to ring up business through cannabalization of CREOnline’s gathering which is targeted to a totally different group?



Posted by Darin on April 10, 2000 at 15:16:37:

Did not read the postings, dont care to.

The great thing is, if people are taking shots, that is a good thing. Must be doing something right in order for someone to take the time out to show appreciaton, just in a differnt way.

Re: What a farce!!! Have JP and Terry and Ed seen this??? - Posted by JPiper

Posted by JPiper on April 10, 2000 at 13:47:24:

Hi Mark:

First, thanks for saving me the time that I was about to spend to respond to the allegations over there. I saw them yesterday, and was outraged at the unfounded attack that took place.

I thought it might be worth pointing out what a ?scam? is. It?s a fraudulent business scheme, a swindle according to my dictionary. To characterize the Lender Workshop put on by Terry Vaughan and Ed Garcia as a ?swindle? is a complete outrage. Interestingly enough, none of the parties who characterized the workshop as a ?scam? used a single fact to support their contention. Further, it was clear that none had attended the workshop. It then became clear that the editor went on a fishing expedition in search of some type of ?proof? of these contentions?.since even he could not have gleaned any proof of any type from the ?statements? made.

In case anyone is interested, the term ?Lender Workshop? really does a disservice to what Ed and Terry provide. The Workshop is just the beginning. What follows is a period of customized mentoring typically provided by Ed, which is unavailable anywhere at any price. I?ve gotten to know Ed well over the last few years, and I can guarantee that Ed gives MORE than full value for the price of this workshop. I have spoken to this guy IN HIS OFFICE at 10PM California time, and heard the phone ring countless times as we spoke. To characterize this guy?s effort and advice (based on 30 years of experience) as a ?scam? is a complete travesty, and spoken by those who don?t know what they?re talking about.

Yesterday I was thinking about CRE following reading these posts. I realized how truly fortunate beginning investors are to have such a resource?.one that did not exist when I first started. I can honestly say that a beginning investor today has the ability to cut off YEARS off the ?school of hard knocks? by simply reading and participating on this newsgroup, reading the ?How To Articles?, and yes, buying a course or two. I wish I had had this opportunity years ago?.life would certainly have been easier. To call this a ?scam? is completely ridiculous.

I?ve gotten to know the Vaughans and Ed Garcia personally over the last few years. I don?t make a habit of calling someone my friend who is a ?scam artist?. And it goes without saying that at my age I?ve seen my share of scams, so my antenna is finely tuned, shall we say. One thing that absolutely turns me cold is to see ANYONE maligned in this manner with absolutely no supporting fact.

I would like to express my complete support to both the Vaughans and Ed Garcia in all the effort they make on all our behalf. I regard them as friends, but more than that, friend or not, one thing I truly respect in this world is the TRUTH. The truth had a SAD DAY on that website.


Re: What a farce!!! Have JP and Terry and Ed seen this??? - Posted by J.P. Vaughan

Posted by J.P. Vaughan on April 10, 2000 at 12:08:27:

Yes, Mark, we’ve seen it. We have informed this site
that this is defamatory and untrue information and
demanded that they remove it. They have refused to do so.
We are pursuing our legal remedies.

The really sad part of this is that I do not know a
single person anywhere who is more sincere and dedicated
than Ed Garcia. This man works his buns off to help people,
regardless of whether they attend his workshop or not.
You’re seen many, many posts here thanking Ed for his
unselfish and generous manner. We also have many, many
success stories from our previous Lender’s Workshops and
not a soul has ever requested a refund.

It is indeed a sad state of affairs when a site like that one
undertakes a pattern and practice of trying to destroy
our personal reputations and Creonline’s reputation–
all with lies from “anonymous” sources.


Re: Both threads are gone… - Posted by chris

Posted by chris on April 11, 2000 at 20:40:10:

Not a Win-Win situation for the webmaster over there. Now that the posts are removed there are posts popping up criticizing the webmaster for backing down.


I am not sure what upset you Ed, but I will go beat em up just to make you feel better - Posted by Lib Cassin

Posted by Lib Cassin on April 12, 2000 at 24:06:27:

You are not allowed to take these people seriously or let them make you sad, I dont know you, except for a few conversations, but I love you long distance, appreciate the support, gracious generosity and kindness that you have shown to me and I know I speak for hundreds others when I tell you, You are the greatest!!!

Newbie’s thoughts - Posted by CurtNY

Posted by CurtNY on April 11, 2000 at 08:52:18:

I’ve been coming to this site for about six months and the idea that someone would put this kind of c### on the internet makes me sick. I’ve learned so much from this site & have found nothing but helpful, selfless investors always willing to help no matter what your experience level. Thanks to JP, Terry, Ed, & everyone who posts here (specially to MattB for that great FAQ sheet he posted!!) You guys all get my vote for mentors of the year!!!

Curt Darragh

An awful lot of censorship over there… - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on April 11, 2000 at 08:29:41:

I admit it, for a brief moment I got sucked into the battle and told them their site desperately needed some class. Apparently they are interested in only one side of the story because MY post got deleted while vicious slander and defamation remained. Anyway this whole thing smacks of a publicity stunt, start some controversy and maybe garner some attention for their conference which no one would have known about otherwise. Don’t worry Ed, anyone who even remotely knows you knows the truth.

I Am Not Giving Them The Priviledge. - Posted by Scott (AK)

Posted by Scott (AK) on April 10, 2000 at 21:21:49:


I refuse to even give them the privivledge of me going to look at it.

After seeing the obvious personal attack (it had to be personal because the person OBVIOUSLY knows nothing about how Trusts work) on my good friend Joe Kaiser on another board I made a decision. I decided, there are people in this world who WILL try to make themselves look good by putting others down, and I refuse to give them the satisfaction of reading the threads.

Although I would like to say a few words about the character of Ed Garcia. I had the priviledge of being in Ed’s area back in January and practically dropping in on him and taking his entire day. The day can be only described as AWESOME.

I have never met Terry, or JP for that matter, in person. While I was at Ed’s office they did call and I had the pleasure of talking to them both on the telephone. Both were extremely professional and friendly.

I for one have gained a LOT from this site, and Joe Kaiser’s site. I have gained information and experience that is changing my life day by day. For that I can only thank the folks envolved.

Finally, to Ed, Terry, JP, and Joe I would like to say. I for one know the real you and will NOT allow some person who obviously has an agenda of self-promotion to distract me from what I know is true.

Thanks to all of you.

Scott (AK)

P.S. I failed to mention my very good friend, and educator, Jim Piper. He also has taught me lots but it seems with his wit, knowledge, and spunk only the ones iwth a true desire for self-destruction mess with him. Thanks to you also Jim Piper.

Ed and Terry Are Integrity Plus - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on April 10, 2000 at 12:55:03:

I’ve been in the business for 25 years so I am qualified to tell the good from the bad. Ed and Terry are the GOOD GUYS in caps as most of you already know.

Their stuff works if you do.

So forget whatever this small other site says. I really don’t even care what site you are talking about.