undocumented workers how do you hire them? - Posted by domineaux_TX

Real Estate Investing
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Posted by domineaux_TX on January 02, 2004 at 09:08:52:

Turn them in! TO WHO? Who gives a hoot?

A truthful local example I personally have knowledge of:

There is a large national manufacturing company in a local suburb very close to me. This company hires hundreds of illegal workers, in fact about 90+% of their employees are illegal.

The INS drives buses (token effort) out to the plant every month or so and loads up the illegals, along with a few legal citizens. “LOL” The company shuts down the plant, and they’re back in business the next day with a full complement of illegal workers.

What does the INS do with those they picked up…who knows. I understand they drive them to the border and let them out. The INS feeds, boards and transports them free of charge back to Mexico.

The quicky grocery I mentioned in previous postings has large numbers of illegal workers hanging around every day of the week. The workers are scattered around that grocery for 1/4 mile in all directions. There are many of these types of locations where illegal workers congregate daily. The INS knows about them, if ordinary citizens are aware of the practice. The INS knows as well, just looks away, and does nothing.

What I do know is this…there are no teeth in the US immigration laws to prevent recurrence.

The INS is a HUGE GOVERNMENT JOKE! The INS has grown to mean the IMPOTENT Naturalization Service…LOL

The INS could fill hundreds of buses each day with illegal aliens in every zipcode area in my area.

THE ISSUE"
“Employers are required to have paperwork supplied by employess, but are not required to corroborate the validity of any paperwork supplied by the employee.”

So everyone looks the other way, and the process continues unabated. It’s not stupid, it’s world class stupid.

We’ve got computers with real world access to information like never in the history of this world. The efficiencies of acquiring or validating information are totally ignored…unless someone wants to do something about it.

Heck, I pay for gas at the pump with a credit card. Instant information and a money transaction is trusted to the computer…LOL

Don’t tell me the US government can’t corroborate or validate citizenship. Go into any bank and open a checking account. The bank can (if they want) validate your SS# within seconds, and pull up your credit records with a few key strokes.

On the light side

Every evening and weekends you can just drive around the parks in my area and the illegals have taken over the parks and playgrounds. There are illegal families using all the picnic areas, the soccer fields are full of illegals playing soccer. The local parks are no longer available to the people living in those areas, the illegals are so dominant.

The INS could drive up to any ONE of these local parks on a Sunday and fill 50 buses with illegals.

A funny thing:

Recently, I re-newed my Texas drivers license. I went into the local DPS office and I was photographed, and had to show my SS card to re-new. As I recall I think had to supply my thumbprint as well. I know illegal aliens with Texas Drivers license, is there a rat in the wood pile or what?

I can’t lick’em so I plan to join’em. I just want to somehow protect myself liability wise and hire them like everyone else does.

I’m no darned bigot or prejudiced…I don’t blame anyone for wanting to eat, educate their children, have good free medical care,etc.

America is the best place in the world to live right now!

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undocumented workers how do you hire them? - Posted by domineaux_TX

Posted by domineaux_TX on January 01, 2004 at 12:48:20:

My NEW YEARS RESOLUTION…

I’d appreciate some solid ideas on how I can protect my interests and hire illegal workers. Oh, I don’t want to go to jail, either.

Lousy as it may seem. All my competitors are using illegals for framing housing, installing roofs, building fences, and a co-zillion construction jobs.

I drive by a quicky grocery each morning and there are hundreds of them hanging around looking for day work. I’ve actually seen trucks pull up and load out 10 or 12 of these illegal workers at a time. The illegal workers will actually work hard, and give you a full day’s work for a days pay. The quality of workman is high, and they want to work.

Personally, I’ve always tried to hold the line and do things on the up and up. I’ve got too many assets to just use the pickup truck routine right now, since I consider there are just too many opportunities for some illegal to get a smart lawyer and take me to the cleaners.

So, I’ve thought maybe I should start a corporation which is the beneficiary of a trust. Then just pay the workers in cash and get most of my rehab work done “on the cheap”.
I’m not sure how the other rehabbers are doing this, but they are definitely taking on projects that are not feasible for me with reasonable rehab rebuilding costs using legitimate workers and contractors.

Illegal workers are not an issue for most rehabbers across the US. I’m in Texas and it’s become a significant factor in any construction or labor intensive business. Illegal workers are the mainstay of constuction and labor intensive businesses “in Texas”.

There is a caveat, but most homeowners stick their head in the sand and defer to their homeowners insurance to resolve issues. The caveat is…what happens when an illegal worker gets injured or killed on their property?

Frankly, I can’t beat them or even compete with rehabbers using illegal workers. It is almost to the point of just walking away from any rehab investment property.

I’m not complaining or verbalizing the poor me bit. I’d like to get some ideas from others who know a way to work illegals and CYA at the same time. Heck, I’ve got a pickup truck it’ll haul a dozen or so at a time. I’m into staying in the rehab business…and I know whiners and complainers get NUTTIN’.

Don’t be blasting on me for wanting to hire illegal workers, that is, until you’ve come to good ole Texas and faced my competitiors and truck loads of illegal workers.

So…if you’ve got some ideas I’d like to read’em and drive my truck to the quicky grocery for a load of cheap labor. Everyone else is doing it, and they aren’t all a bunch of poor boys doing it either. There is a way to do it. I’ve just gotta get a handle on it or “ELSE”.

The government isn’t going to do anything about it. The illegals are so prominent now in Texas the public schools are tearing out all the playgrounds and putting portable classroom buildings on the grounds. It is so conspicuous what is happening…but hey now one cares enough to do anything.

I don’t blame the illegals they’re just getting all they can get as long as they can get it, as cheap as they can.

Happy New Year

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Here’s how - Posted by Bill

Posted by Bill on January 02, 2004 at 21:47:39:

As J. Paul Getty said-“Own nothing, control everything.” The only way to win and protect yourself is to do as J. Paul said.
You move all your assets out of reach. Only control things.
Once you have done that, there is nothing to get from you.
You make everything you own beyond reach. Rent all your tools. All property is not only in land trusts, but also protected by mortgages, liens, etc. FAR exceeding the property’s worth. So if anyone does go after you, they must pay off all these mortgages, liens, etc. before they can get to you. If there’s nothing left, they won’t even bother to try. Companies can be created or dissolved or rendered financially broke with a few strokes of a pen.

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Re: undocumented workers how do you hire them? - Posted by MNChicago

Posted by MNChicago on January 01, 2004 at 19:34:06:

You are certainly asking the most pertinent
question in CYA.

Doesn’t matter how cheaply you do a project
if you lose everything in a lawsuit.

Why not ask some of those who are doing it
HOW they are doing it? Someone will eventually
give you some insight if you approach them in
a spirit of ‘commarderie.’

In a related thought, if you are to pursue what
you are suggesting, make sure YOUR ASSets are
protected via LPs/LLCs in case you do end up
with a suit, even with legals.

Let us know what you find out, and good luck.

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Re: undocumented workers how do you hire them? - Posted by TKP, Houston

Posted by TKP, Houston on January 01, 2004 at 14:39:15:

I suggest you hook up with a contractor who is both legal and bi-lingual. These guys will usually work alongside their crew, and most of the time have the same crew (with few changes) for several months.
I contract all my work out to 2 or 3 contractors at prices that I find very reasonable, and with few exceptions their crews have delivered excellent work.
TKP, Houston

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Re: undocumented workers how do you hire them? - Posted by domineaux_TX

Posted by domineaux_TX on January 01, 2004 at 20:28:46:

Gosh…I don’t know how to address others in
a spirit of ‘commarderie.’

I didn’t say it sweet enough or something?

Let’s be honest, it’s probably not a topic most people enjoy discussing anyway. Just another one of those things you just don’t talk about. No one wants to sound like a bigot or known for exploiting others.

Heck, it’s a very big problem in TEXAS. In fact, it is a paramount issue and if you try to do anything in construction in any field you have to deal with it.

All I want to do is try to keep some of the assets I’ve accumulated and continue to make a living without losing everything to some enterprising lawyer beating me out of everything in court.

Regardless, I’m seriously looking into it or I’ll have to find some other way to make my investments.

I recently bid on a house that was in need of a total re-hab. I walked away, because I couldn’t match the offer of the other rehabber. The other rehabber completely re-framed the roof, which I wasn’t about to do. It was a low ranch style roof and the guy used cheap labor and rebuilt the roof about 8 feet higher at the apex. I mean…not only did he outbid me, he restructed the entire roof framework on a 2,700 Sft house. The other rehabber is “NOT A NEOPHYTE EITHER”.

This illegal worker thing doesn’t mean much to the rest of America, but it will one day. It’ll be too late to do anything by then, the illegals will be so engrained by then they’ll control the vote…LOL

Besides the illegals are darned prolific, they all seem to have about 4 to 6 kids, and everytime the child is born in America it is a legal citizen. Sad part is…the current legal citizens and taxpayers are paying their medical bills for delivering all those children through MedicAid.

The illegal alien issue only becomes a problem, when it becomes a problem. Twenty years ago in North Texas the illegal alien problem was darned near miniscule, now it is a paramount issue facing all the taxpaying citizens.

Some municipalities have stopped issuing permits for apartments, and have legislated to rase any apartments possible. Why, because they cannot fund their local school districts on the advalorem tax base when apartments are housing so many children per unit.

My business is affected, along with everyone elses. All I want to do is stay in business, not go to jail, and protect my assets as possible. Is that too much to ask?

I called the Immigration and Naturalization service asking about hiring illegal aliens. The agent hung up on me when I simply asked how I could employ illegals like everyone else and not be violating the law. I called back a dozen times and no one would respond. Something is wrong in that. I’m not paranoid, seeing ghosts or hearing voices. The US government is not ignoring the issue, just not doing anything about it. (is that the same thing) LOL

Regardless, the facts are the facts. Until something better comes along doing business as a rehabber in Texas will require hiring illegal aliens, nothing more needs to be said about it.

So, if some well intentioned soul would please share a way to protect your assets, stay within the law, and work illegal aliens I’d sure appreciate any information you can share.

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Re: undocumented workers how do you hire them? - Posted by domineaux_TX

Posted by domineaux_TX on January 01, 2004 at 17:19:31:

TKP

OK, got that.

The issue of liability is still there from what you mentioned. The so-called contractors (illegals working illegals) is not really any better than just picking up your own workers. In fact, I think your risk would be even higher. Higher, because you’ve got one illegal that is probably real savvy about how to nail you “the honkie”.

How are you eliminating your liability working them? When there is an accident what do you do about it?
When one of the illegals goes to a personal injury lawyer about a “back or neck” problem how are you protected?

Heck, I know how to pass out cash and find a flim-flammer who’ll exploit his own people. It’s just CYA for real that is my concern.

Don’t be neg’d by my response I’m just trying to find a viable tough solution that will protect my intersts for real…not disquise them.

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Re: Is that your biggest complain on this earth? - Posted by Mr Dam_n

Posted by Mr Dam_n on January 01, 2004 at 22:41:10:

Who are current legal citizens and taxpayers ?
They were also one time or another came and loot the native indians and killed them.
The illegal aliens you are talking about are not looting anything they just try to breath on this earth by given the chance from the same God you Pray every day. Your mother is not the only mother going to bear a child. Grow from the dark age…

>>>Besides the illegals are darned prolific, they all seem to have about 4 to 6 kids, and everytime the child is born in America it is a legal citizen. Sad part is…the current legal citizens and taxpayers are paying their medical bills for delivering all those children through MedicAid.

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Re: undocumented workers how do you hire them? - Posted by Neil (Md)

Posted by Neil (Md) on January 01, 2004 at 20:48:50:

Domineaux,

you write…
"So, if some well intentioned soul would please share a way to protect your assets, stay within the law, and work illegal aliens I’d sure appreciate any information you can share. "

Your question can’t be answered. You can’t stay within the law and hire illegal aliens. You might be able to shield you assets from potential law suits. But you can’t do legally what is illegal. And, there will always be some level of risk.

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Re: Is that your biggest complain on this earth? - Posted by jason

Posted by jason on January 05, 2004 at 16:39:21:

Yeah, grow from the dark age, coz the new age’s motto is not that they (the aliens) are here, but that the jobs are going there and are being exported there(to the aliens’ own country and to their planets). First the steel mills, then the electronic manufacturing , then software, but hey, you can’t ship your house that needs to be rehabbed and then get it shipped back, can you.

So many things sold in Wallmartt and kaymartt are made in some 3rd world country / planet that by now I would think that when their stock holders vote, 51% are probably non U.S. based stock holders.

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Re: Is that your biggest complain on this earth? - Posted by domineaux_TX

Posted by domineaux_TX on January 01, 2004 at 23:28:59:

I don’t blame illegal aliens for the issue they’ve created. Don’t blame them a bit for fleeing poverty and misery. When the best and brightest are leaving as well as their laborers things will never be any better in their home country.

In fact, I’m just saying there are problems hiring illegal aliens and as a small businessman I’ve just trying to find a workaround.

Things could be legitimized and illegal workers would be treated better and more fairly. It is not in the power of my hand to change the things for illegal aliens. They are definitely affecting business and government services in the border and near border states drastically.

Heck, I’m just trying to find a way to give’m a job without breaking me in the process.

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Re: undocumented workers how do you hire them? - Posted by domineaux_TX

Posted by domineaux_TX on January 01, 2004 at 21:54:06:

You’re right. “You can’t stay within the law and hire illegal aliens”. Yet, paradoxically…you can. Others are doing it.

It’s like craziness, our government allowing such conspicuous double standards.

Regardless, I’m still plugging along and I’ve got to deal with the issue and find a workaround.

In Texas forming a corporation for each property is almost prohibitive. The state requires a large fee, which coupled along with attorney fees is almost prohibitive except for larger properties.

I’m NOT sure that forming a corporation would protect you in civil matters that concerned worker safety.

Offshore havens maybe to only best solution, utilizing trusts and other limited liability methods of organization.

Maybe, I should ask if someone knows how or where to acquire the information my question might have better results. That is, rather than trying to get a good viable answer over these forums. I realize there are persons competent to answer the question, but a response may require too much time to answer effectively.

I do appreciate all the response I’ve received.

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Re: undocumented workers how do you hire them? - Posted by EZ Money

Posted by EZ Money on January 01, 2004 at 21:49:11:

So. Cal is the same. However, you just can’t say they are illegals. Many are legal to work but still are day labors. Many cities have set up hiring halls where you can pick up day workers. They want a name, job type, and amount of pay, but not withholding or anything else. They are ‘casual labor.’ I pay about $8-$10 per hour with lunch. I would check to see if you could get a blanket insurance policy to cover an injury if you have major projects. When I built new I would have a policy in case a worker was injured under someone else. The custom is to pay cash every day.

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Re: undocumented workers how do you hire them? - Posted by domineaux_TX

Posted by domineaux_TX on January 01, 2004 at 22:07:37:

Right, I realize saying illegals is probably not always the case. Yet, it is easily most often the case.

I’ll discuss your mention of a blanket insurance policy to my agent. I do recall discussing this issue several times with him, but the basic solution seemed to be just to provide worker’s compensation insurance. The problem I had when I supplied the WC insurance was the large number of claims that were filed when the workers knew I had insurance. My claims experience went through the roof in about 9 months.

So. Cal has a contractor’s licensing requirement, which solves a great deal of the problems in consumer protection issues and legitimacy of contractors. Texas contractors are not scrutinized in any fashion, and constantly put the screws to consumers (victims).
I’ve always been amazed at crooks that used guns to rob people for little bits of money, when they can steal huge sums of money just being Texas contractors.

The only recourse to the poor consumer is the Texas courts, and heck every lawyer will tell you crooks have no money so you shouldn’t waste your resources suing a crook. So,the crooked contractors are never discouraged from their craft.

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But they do jobs that americans don’t want BS! - Posted by Tom Kirby ¶

Posted by Tom Kirby ¶ on January 02, 2004 at 07:10:42:

I’ve heard this comment on all the talk and news shows. It’s a bunch of crap! They “ARE TAKEN AMERICAN JOBS” and the people who hire them should go to jail. We have them here on Long Island. The librial politicians want to build a work place pick up for them too. We the people fought it and won, but they’re still trying. I think you as a rehaber should turn the others in for hiring them. Like someone posted here they are draining the resourses from the schools and hospitals here too. We the tax payers suffer in the end but nobody looks out for us. I work with a guy that was illegal at one time. I go to ball games with him, I know his family, and I always end up arguing with about illegals. Duh, should I be surprised?
Tom