Unconditional Notice to Quit-Advice? - Posted by Sailor

Posted by Sailor on November 29, 2005 at 20:26:38:

You are correct (as always!), Tony. The verbal threat to me cannot be prosecuted–because it was conditional; i.e., “IF you come here I will. . . .” However, because the Rental Agreement was violated, as were the Park Rules, I have sufficient grounds for a hearing before the Magistrate.

I agree that it is not necessarily productive to punish the victim. However, in this case I believe that a tough stance provides her w/both an opportunity to return to her family & a reality check she sorely needs. For her, the abusive husband is kind of like Switzerland–something you’d need if it didn’t already exist. There is more going on w/this girl than an unfortunate hook-up. Spending several days in the hospital didn’t teach her a thing, but it did temporarily put one of her sons in the safe hands of his grandparents. My best hope is that the eviction, if I prevail, might do the same thing. I don’t like being the bad guy, either, darnit! My brand-new chocolate fountain was delivered today, & I’d much rather spend next Tuesday down @ the pre-school helping the kids dunk marshmallows than in court–

Tye

Unconditional Notice to Quit-Advice? - Posted by Sailor

Posted by Sailor on November 27, 2005 at 19:47:44:

Is there any advice I should heed about serving an Unconditional Notice to Quit? I’m in NC & today was threatened w/violence by a tenant (1st time in 25 years of landlording). I had been told by his wife that he had moved out on the 2nd day after (again) abusing her, but have discovered that he has returned. Both the Rental Agreement & MHP Rules note that such abuse immediately terminates our agreement. Further, the MHP rules note that cursing, verbal beratement, & physical threats to managment are all grounds for termination. I haven’t been able to find a sample form, so had to write one myself–any recommendations? TIA

Tye

Be Very Careful… - Posted by Bill H

Posted by Bill H on November 28, 2005 at 23:07:22:

We had two local police officers killed last night…point blank…went to a domestic violence call and the irate husband gunned them down.

I’ve often heard it said that the worse place to be is between two spouses in an abuse situation…last night was proof positive.

Be Very Careful Sailor,

Good Luck,
Bill H

Re: Unconditional Notice to Quit-Advice? - Posted by dealmaker

Posted by dealmaker on November 27, 2005 at 21:20:22:

I don’t know NC law, but I know a bit about the law, and I can tell you that neither a rental agreement nor MHP rules can abrogate State Law regarding notices (or anything else for that matter.

Serve all notices (or better still have them served) exactly in accordance with state law. Notify the cops (if that has no effect, notify the District Attorney-they’re usually elected, and therefor more responsive) about the threats!

Threats are not to be taken lightly. A good friend was shot (not fatally) by a PO’d tenant. This is DEADLY serious business!

dealmaker

Re: Be Very Careful… - Posted by Sailor

Posted by Sailor on November 29, 2005 at 20:04:29:

Bill, that is such an awful thing to hear. Unfortunately, domestic abuse & correlated violence are all too common. One of the sad things is that I can look @ this twerp that beats up on his wife & see the little boy who is still enraged by the things that were done to him as a child. I also see the lack of affect in their two year old boy & know that the damage in the next generation has also started.

My Unconditional Notice to Quit, as well as Notice of Intent to File for Eviction, has been served. I have a court date next Tues, & if I prevail the sheriff w/have them out in just a few days. NC is a “no 2nd chance” state, which means I can evict on the basis of lease violation. The advantage of this, rather than suing for $$$, is that I can get them out much faster. Amazingly, & @ least until I see what damage has been done, they do not currently owe me. I believe the grandmother paid the last month’s rent (though I had the mom co-sign, so was covered). One of my goals is to get them out before they get behind again. However, I am not as concerned about the $$$ as I am about violence in my MHP. My (probably futile) hope, is that the girl & child w/return to family if they are evicted. I have the full support of the girl’s family. They have been devastated by the events of the past couple of years, & hope against hope that their child & grandson w/escape.

BTW, from what I have learned in this situation, I’m going to transfer the following item from my MHP rules to my Rental Agreement because it gives cause for (relatively) immediate eviction in this state:

“Any tenant who curses at, verbally berates, physically threatens or harms other tenants or community personnel is subject to immediate termination of their lease without further notice or warning. Residents are encouraged to speak kindly to & about their neighbors.”

Thanks, Bill for your concern. I do take the warnings seriously. In fact, I may even try to find my old stun gun that I haven’t carried since I wintered in Cartegena in '93-'94. If I find it, I’ll have to remember to change the batteries!

I’d like to think that this experience has taught me more than another way to rig my Rental Agreement in my favor, or how to work the local legal system. It makes me more determined to work hard for my community so that we provide a more healthy environment for future generations. I’ve got a meeting Friday of the Rural Development Panel, & I plan to bring up the subject there, moving that we strongly support a proposed community recreation & health center. I see the terrific work my GSIL does handling the 4-H programs for the county, & the positive effect this has on so many young folks. Oh, & I’m not going to give up on my dream of providing decent affordable housing, which I think is a cornerstone of a wholesome community. I cannot provide refuge for those who resort to violence, but I can contribute to an environment that allows a family to live a decent life.

Tye

Re: Unconditional Notice to Quit-Advice? - Posted by Sailor

Posted by Sailor on November 27, 2005 at 22:53:21:

My understanding is that NC is a “no 2nd chance” state, & that illegal behavior gives grounds for an unconditional quit notice.

Yes, I agree that threats are serious, & I have my alarm set for an early hour so that I can visit the magistrate. I have also made copies of all papers for the Sheriff’s Dept, & w/stop there to advise them of everything. (I also have a nice box of chocolates for the deputy w/whom I spoke today–she was lovely, & stopped by my MHP to make sure the tenant’s wife was OK & not currently taking any of her husband’s leftover rage).

Although I’ve been landlording since 1980 I’ve never had a serious tenant problem (not a single bounced check!) until I bought a MHP this year. Collecting rent is still not a big problem, but I am amazed that domestic violence takes up a LOT of my time & efforts. I am determined to provide decent affordable housing, but my resolve is being sorely tested these days! I even bought a coupla books last week on rearing difficult children in the hope that I can more effectively deal with some determined-to-be-challenging tenants.

Thanks for the concern & advice!

Tye

Re: Be Very Careful… - Posted by Anne_LLC

Posted by Anne_LLC on December 05, 2005 at 21:17:17:

Tye,

How did things work out with this tenant?

I admire your commitment to affordable housing and a wholesome community.

I once had a prospective buyer for one of my MHs become despondent when I told him there was a criminal check. He said to me “oh geez, EVERYONE has a felony assault conviction, even the guy I beat up, why should I be denied housing because of that?” A question for the ages…

take care, Anne

Re: Unconditional Notice to Quit-Advice? - Posted by Killer Joe

Posted by Killer Joe on November 28, 2005 at 01:18:48:

Tye,

It was a pleasure meeting you in Ashville, you are exactly the person I was expecting after reading so many of your posts. You were one of the first people I wanted to meet from among the other posters, and I got that chance. You are a wonderful individual, to say the least.

Dealmaker is right, the world can be thorny to put it mildly. I would give you this advice…aggression can be fostered by the smallest of things. A true measure of a man is how much weight he can tolorate before he collapses. Your tenant sounds like he has reached his threashold.

You need to continue your path with as little visability as possible. Don’t become the object of intent when dealing with persons driven by emotion and anger. Use all the neccessary layers you can to insulate yourself from this individual. Irrational behavior will manifest itself in the path of least resistance. Use that to your advantage. Don’t become the conduit for revenge and retaliation. That is what the government is for. Utilize their strength. I have two kids on the police force and you should hear the stories they tell me. They really can make a difference. Make the ‘institution’ the bad guy. I bet you already knew that, may God bless you, and make your journey safe and uplifting.

KJ

Re: Be Very Careful… - Posted by Sailor

Posted by Sailor on December 06, 2005 at 21:05:44:

Thanks for asking, kid. Went to court today & got my judgment + costs ($95). Surprisingly, had to present my case even though the tenants did not show. I showed both my Rental Agreement & MHP Rules, & the Magistrate’s comment was “I LOVE your rules!” The clincher was when I showed her the rental sign that had been defaced w/the oh-so-clever phone # “800-F___-YOU.”

It appears the tenants are moving tomorrow anyway, but if they do not I w/immediately have them removed by the sheriff. I can do that in NC if the judgment was NOT for $$$, but for illegal activities (drugs, violence). Evidently I am the 1st landlord in this county to get an eviction for anything other than unpaid rent. I w/immediately change the locks, & w/hold anything left of the deposit long enough to make sure there won’t be any more vandalism right away. If I get out of this relatively unscathed financially I’ll be surprised & delighted. BTW, the Magistrate advised me to take the court costs out of the security deposit.

The Rural Development Panel met Friday & agreed that we should write a letter of support for the new community center (recreation + wellness) that my GSIL has proposed. We have virtually lost our middle class in recent years. All the development is geared toward yuppie retirees who come here to sail in their active retirement years, & housing is too darned expensive or too cheap (e.g., my MHP) for decent families. Recreation is devoted to kayak paddle trails or nature walks, none of which really reaches our younger folks.

Today was interesting because I had to sit through some other court cases. Everyone should do that–very illuminating & quite an indictment of our system in which the have-nots are regularly preyed upon by officious medical office managers, finance companies, & (sorry, dear sweet Patrick) used car dealers. I can’t imagine why some of these poor defendants bothered to show up, as they had no defense other than they just didn’t have the bucks. One dear elderly woman who could hardly breathe sobbed as she tried to explain her situation. I wanted to jump up out of my seat & defend her myself. I may have gone into court today determined to prevail against my tenant, but I came out ever more committed to my MHP folks (aggravating as they can be).

Stay warm, Anne! Sam’s Club has the best price on decent long johns that I’ve found (other than making them myself, which I sometimes do). Even here in NC I’ll be decked out in layers from now through mid-April.

Tye

Re: Unconditional Notice to Quit-Advice? - Posted by Sailor

Posted by Sailor on November 28, 2005 at 07:40:27:

Joe–wisdom & great looks, too–what a killer combo. Thanks, kid!

Tye

Re: Be Very Careful… - Posted by Anne_LLC

Posted by Anne_LLC on December 09, 2005 at 12:18:59:

Tye,

The issue of affordable housing for the middle class is so hard on the east coast (where I’m from originally). One of the nice things about the midwest is that ordinary families can live in nice 3-bedroom houses for less than $100K. MHPs really do serve an important population.

I’m glad that you were able to be supported by the court on your eviction.

I am staying warm- it’s been in the -10s for the last week or so, but today it’s in the 20s and sunny, which is delightful. My business plan is structured such that I never go under a mobile home no matter the circumstances, but I really feel bad for the guys who do it for me this time of year. And for $8/hour!

take care, Anne

Re: Unconditional Notice to Quit-Advice? - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Tony Colella on November 29, 2005 at 07:37:20:

Tye,

The criminal conduct may be grounds for immediate termination of the lease but as is often the case, this may become a “he said, she said” type case, at least regarding the threats to you (if they were verbal, unrecorded or unwitnessed by a 3rd party).

Hopefully you have a month to month lease and I might suggest you also consider simply terminating the lease (by providing the proper notice and time).

If you can prove the criminal act (perhaps the domestic violence arrest) then you may have better footing.

Domvio is a tough call. I always try and find a way Not to punish the victim but at some point, if the behavior is allowed to continue despite my efforts to help them out, then it is time for both parties to move on. I never want to boot a victim but after 11 years of law enforcement dealing with domestic violence calls, I have learned that some victims will not break things off with their abuser no matter what. If they can, then I can be the bad guy who will not allow the abuser on the property. If they allow them back, against my efforts then they too must now move.

Inevitably I get the property back and it is full of fist holes in walls and doors. Not much thanks for trying to help but I continue to try just the same.

Tony