Posted by Troy Fullwood on May 30, 2006 at 09:52:09:
James,
When you get a min. give me a call at 888-736-5353. I would be more then happy to share some of my students experiances with you. I will even give you there phone numbers so you can contact them directly and talk to them yourself.
Have a great day,
Troy Fullwood
Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by James
Posted by James on May 19, 2006 at 04:46:29:
I saw a advertisement for a bootcamp offered by Troy Fullwood it sounds interesting but I don’t know anything about him.
Does anyone from this site know anything about him and his courses ?
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on May 23, 2006 at 14:39:06:
Check it out carefully. Somewhere I have read a great deal about him, but since I didn’t know him, I didn’t remember the details (and since I am becoming so old I can now hide my own easter eggs).
I think it was at www.papersourceonline.com but that forum has been shut down. I would do a google search. If it was at www.papersourceonline.com then you could use the “Wayback Machine” at www.archive.org and read it anyway. That website archives other websites so even though it is currently shut down you can still read back a year or two to what was once posted.
My memory is that there were things said that should give you pause before considering the bootcamp.
Personally I have never heard from him and would highly recommend you stick with proven pros like Terry Vaughan, Michael Morrongiello and David Butler. There is not an expensive “bootcamp” on paper that I would recommend.
Before that, start with the information here. I guarantee you there is more information here on this forum and in the archives than you will find in ANY bootcamp out there. Maybe it is not organized A-Z, but the price is right. Never devalue something that is reasonably priced or free. In the note business in particular, there is an inverse relationship between the cost of the education and the quality. Promoters tend to charge ridiculous prices and provide little information while pros tend to actually want to educate people and do not make their living off of selling courses. There are promoters in the note industry charging thousands that have never done a deal. At the same time, you have others that are truly brilliant that will educate you for very little because they actually do enjoy it. The three I mentioned fit into that category.
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by Christopher Lippincott
Posted by Christopher Lippincott on May 30, 2006 at 10:58:19:
Looking at the comments here, it reminds me of what is wrong with this industry. Firstly Mr. Behle recognizes he does not know Troy or of him and tries to recall information posted to a forum with which I administrate for Bill Mencarow (Papersourceonlines Lounge) currently undergoing a relocation. Troy has NEVER been under fire for his teachings at the Lounge. I can and do have access to all the data and years of posts.
I happened to be lucky enough to meet Troy in '03 when I started in the note industry after 6+ years in Real Estate. He taught me the ropes for FREE! I was an ACFC student for introduction purposes to cash flows, as I saw the opportunities coming (rising rates)
I was taught well enough to have been a speaker in Atlanta at ACFC’s latest convention. My topics were DIRECTLY relating to the things I learned from Troy. His fundamentals are worth learning.
As to his teachings,
Troy is ANTI-GURU and teaches for the opportunity to learn from someone who has succeeded in an industry that is very NICHE minded. Each nuance to RE notes needs a professional for a successful intro. Simultaneous closings (Troys niche) are difficult in many states due to perceptions of being a lender. When the 1st payments are made to an individual not listed on the HUD it can create a situation you may not want to be a party to. Lenders and principals are very different. I have learned many valuable lessons regarding compliance at the state levels. The teachings obviously came from the gentleman we are seeking to understand here.
As Mr. Behle also fails to mention he is similarly selling information. I question the judgements without at least knowing the information or man offering it,
Troys current 12 month guarantee also puts a spin that isn’t seen by ANY “guru” or the 52 weeks of free coaching that I would be willing to garner isn’t offered ANYWHERE! Period!
I am a success story of Troys accessibility, determination, and class in an industry that NEEDS more people like Troy.
That’s my real name
That’s a real email address
Real questions can be submitted from skeptical readers,
Chris
Troy is actively changing the things that are wrong with guru’s and late night promises and I for one support his desires to tackle this challenge,
Good luck and continued successes to all
Re: What about… - Posted by Terrence
Posted by Terrence on May 26, 2006 at 13:14:21:
a rumor I’ve heard from some of the folks who attended CREO’s recent Convention that all FOUR of you guys (Terry, David, Mike & and you, John) might be uniting to teach an advanced paper and real estate workshop sometime this year??? Is there a real chance that will happen, and if so… when?!
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by James
Posted by James on May 24, 2006 at 04:40:15:
thanks John,
I did do some more research since I didn’t get a response right away. It appears that Troy Fullwood owns a company called Pinnacle Investments were they buy notes. It seems like the bootcamp is a way for him to get more people bringing him notes to buy & charging $1997 for the privilege. Maybe a conflict of interest in my opinion, I guess. You can read more about it at TroyFullwood.com. I don’t endorse it, I’m considering it and wanted some opinions before I fork over my hard earned money.
He makes some fantastic claims to teach all his secrets so that you can find 10 notes in 10 days & make anywhere from $5k to $25k a month with none of your own money and he says this “Power of Paper” boot camp will change your life forever.
I’m not knocking it but is it possible to make that kind of money starting out, especially with “none of your own money” ?
I know I can get cheaper training but what I need is a step by step plan from A-Z to put me on the fast track ?
I’ve been doing single family homes for about 3 years now & can’t seem to get out of the rat race. I do wholesaling & rehabs & no money down techniques like subject to investing but subject to is becoming less and less attractive with new lease option law changes in Texas. I’m not interesting in chasing foreclosures.
So, I’m trying to find something where I can build a steady cashflow each month. The wholesaling pay days or good but I can’t seem to find deals each month. I’ve been averaging one every 2 or 3 months or longer.
What do you all recommend ? What do the people you recommend have available in step by step A-Z format that will put me on the fast track ?
Again Thanks for your replies
You forgot to mention… - Posted by Jason (AL)
Posted by Jason (AL) on May 23, 2006 at 21:12:14:
John Behle.
I hear he knows a thing or 2 about the paper side of things.
But I’m sure you’re too humble a’feller to mention him, eh?
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on May 31, 2006 at 03:28:19:
First off Chris, I have nothing to sell, so you can back off on questioning my motives. And sorry, but if you haven?t heard of me, that also doesn?t justify questioning my motives. I haven?t taught seminars, been actively educating people or traveled around during the three years you?ve been in the business, but I have been around for 30 years and educating people for 24 years. You might find that much of what Troy or anyone else might teach of any value may have originated at my seminars or through my students.
Someone asked a question. No one answered. If Mike, Terry, David and others have personal knowledge, it would have been nice if they had answered it. Maybe somehow Troy has made a name for himself in the last few years and I am the lone person not to see it. Since no one else answered the question, possibly I am not the only one. But, since I host this forum which began around the time Troy entered the business, I didn?t want to leave this particular question un-answered. I also have some very strong feelings about some of the high priced seminars in the paper business.
Since somewhere I had read some discussions about Troy I basically said someone might want to research further. That is sound advice any time. I mentioned it MIGHT be at PaperSource, which may be wrong. It could have been in a number of other forums. If not, caution before spending thousands of dollars is in order - especially in this business.
I always have and always will caution someone to seriously investigate any high priced paper seminars. If you administer the Paper Source online forums, you might want to read the articles, posts and information Bill and others have posted related to high priced seminars. My viewpoint is common among people who have been in the business for more than a few years, or decades. Noteworthy has similar articles and perspectives. Some of the so-called educators out there have created an environment where a new student needs to seriously question.
If you have been around for some time, even as a reader or administrator of a forum, then you would know that the high priced seminars are maximum price, minimum value from people with little or questionable experience. Basically they started with Pino and Stefanchick and then others have broken off or plagarized their weak materials. I have yet to see or hear of ONE high priced bootcamp in the paper business I would recommend. I have nearly bitten clear through my tongue in trying to be diplomatic and approach things from a positive point of view. Reality is most if not all of them are a farce.
If Troy should happen to be an exception to that, then that is wonderful. In his massive 9 years of experience, maybe he has had some success. I don’t know, which is exactly what I said. Maybe Mike, David, Terry and others can share their experiences of him.
I re-read my posts. Basically I said I didn’t know him, had read some things that ought to be checked out and that in general high priced seminars are not the best option. That is all true and very sound and NEEDED advice…
After I wrote that I didn’t know about Troy I searched to try to find what it was that I had read and also looked at his website and massive internet promotions. I commented and cautioned further when I saw the claims and language of his website. Making big claims and loads of internet hype with “opportunity of a lifetime” claims, etc. doesn’t mean it is a scam. But, if you and/or Troy have truly been around for some time, then you would know that it is exactly like the types of claims and hype of the others.
The so-called fathers of the expensive paper bootcamp industry had almost NO experience in the industry and the seminar was hype, fluff and fantasy. In most cases, it just went downhill from there. The others who have broken off or started have tended to be even less experienced and less realistic. I’ve been at the business 30 years and wrote my book The Paper Game 24 years ago. About 15 years ago the high priced bootcamps came onto the scene. It’s been a plague. The industry has gone downhill and I have run into thousands of their un-happy clients. I’ve seen lives ruined running after the hype, promises and fantasies. Some have succeeded. Some students have risen above an incredibly mediocre education. Yet, for every success, there are ten thousand who don?t. Those who succeed usually do so ONLY because they continue on and get some real education elsewhere.
Now if Troy is different from that group of educators, that’s wonderful. It’s about time. From what Troy said and what he seems to offer at his website, it looks like he may indeed be attempting to satisfy and educate students. But, at the same time, you might get that impression reading the websites of others who have little regard for anything other than their student’s credit card numbers.
Contrary to your claim, I have nothing to sell or any ulterior motive. I said I don’t know much about Troy and that anyone considering a high priced “bootcamp” should be VERY cautious. That is the absolute best advice I could give someone. If as you and Troy claim, he is the real deal, then that should become apparent. Maybe he is a Mercedes in a parking lot full of Yugos, but given the nature of the high priced seminar business anyone should be very, very cautious. It’s a shame. There are far fewer people that are worth recommending in this business than there are that should be avoided. It would be wonderful if that were different. Maybe some day it will be.
We did talk about it - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on May 31, 2006 at 02:27:57:
We did have several discussions about the possibilities. I would enjoy it a great deal, but there are no dates or firm plans.
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on May 25, 2006 at 15:11:55:
As Mark mentioned, those claims are phenomenal and a sure sign of a get rich promoter.
To answer your question, Yes and No. Yes, those types of profits are possible in notes, but NOT from what you learn at the expensive “be a birddog” seminars. You will be very glad in the future if you spend that money in wiser ways. It is way too much for way too little. There is not ONE of the high priced paper seminars that I recommend. They churn out in-experienced, under-educated students by the thousands that DO NOT SUCCEED. To real pros in the industry, these students are generally to be avoided. They do not know what they are doing, are totally un-realistic in their expectations and the worst part are clueless about those facts. They have been sold on the idea that they will get all the training they will ever need and most come out convinced of that fact.
Some succeed and any one of their students reading this would probably be in that category, so no one needs to take offense. Those that succeed continue on and supplement their education with other seminars and courses. The vast majority are upset at the prices they paid or leave the business before they even realize the could have gotten a REAL education elsewhere.
As I stated, I don’t know this particular individual, but from what I have read, it truly appears to be just another un-realistic, high priced bunch of rah-rah. He’s probably just another ACFA student, turned instructor, turned wannabe guru.
Stick with the proven and experienced pros that offer education at reasonable prices. Is sometime later you did discover that this guy does indeed walk on water like his self generated press releases state, you could always take the seminar.
In real estate and the paper industry, people get sucked into buying the pretty box instead of the contents. Hype and promises drag people into expensive seminars they later regret. A few rise above that and find success because of their drive and willingness to bite the bullet later and pay for some real education. Most conclude the business does not work and go away. Many tens of thousands of students have spent thousands to supposedly learn the business and very, very, very few succeed. That is not the fault of the business, it is the fault of the education they received and the education they didn’t.
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by Mark (MD)
Posted by Mark (MD) on May 25, 2006 at 11:17:54:
James:
It appears you are trying to sell yourself on forking out $2k for what you can get for much, much less. It always makes me mad when ANY guru proposes those types of numbers with none of your own money.
How are you going to promote your business and reach your prospects? Is Troy going to front you that? I highly doubt that. That will take YOUR money. And if you want to find 10 doable deals in 10 days it will take ALOT of your money.
I have never heard of this guy before and do not know a thing about him. However, his seminar is way too expensive and his claims are far too high. Stick with the education you can gleen here and sites like Noteworthy.com & Papersource.com. If this business is for you, you can’t go wrong with these three sites.
I believe I also saw a seminar advertised on Papersource recently, can not recall the guy’s name but it was a two day deal and I think was $500. Consider that one first if you insist on throwing money at a seminar and need that type of structure.
You truely can get all the info you need without going that route though.
Best of Luck to You!
Mark Williams
Re: You forgot to mention… - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on May 24, 2006 at 01:11:38:
Ya, I kind of forgot that one, but for a reason.
As far as education goes, the only course I have available is what is here for free. There is a tremendous amount of information in the archives of this forum. I think far more than in any of the expensive seminars.
I wish I felt up to doing some more five day seminars again, but not right now. Just doing a 5 hour roundtable at the convention left me almost unable to walk the next day. So for now, the only course is what I have already written here.
But as far as buying any courses, the three carried here are top notch.
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by Christopher Lippincott
Posted by Christopher Lippincott on May 31, 2006 at 07:38:08:
As you claim on your website you do sell products, ?just not at this moment?
http://www.papergame.com/learnmore.htm
I too do not agree with a high priced seminar when certain amounts of information can do the same job for less.
Bill (Mencarow) offers a free course online and the offerings here are a cost effective ?PLACE TO START?
I wouldn?t stop there though!
If an education is being offered that can supplement my knowledge and offer guidance for a brighter future where I currently generate income. I?m there. RE agents constantly need continuing education. See neg-am. IT professionals needless to say are constantly re-educating.
The point is nobody offers what Troy is attempting to fix. Money back and free coaching! Time will be the judge and successes or failures will be heard.
30 years around this industry is something to be respected but it also shows and has `added many of the dislikes you seem to have acquired. For the industry to flourish and garner the press it needs to do so, people like Troy need to attempt a rebuild of a well known and dis-liked trait. The late night infomercial.
I personally have faith in Troy and think he and others like him (myself included) have the energy to add a new face to an industry (RE notes) that has suffered in the most recent years due to the infusion of Dalbeyism. Find it, post it, get paid? Not my style!
Education is KEY!
Seasoning is not something you cook with, know what I mean?
Troy will have to break down some VERY thick walls built because of perception and disclaimers not honored,
If you aren?t willing to do the absurd you?ll never achieve the impossible!
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by Troy Fullwood
Posted by Troy Fullwood on May 29, 2006 at 16:23:55:
John,
This morning when I turned on my computer I found an email from an associate instructing me to visit creonline and to read what you have been writing.
I have now read your posting about me and I find your comments rather amusing. Being so you don?t know anything about me, I thought I might take a min and bring you up to speed. I don?t? normally spend time posting to any forms, although from time to time I will skim through the various industry related sites just to see what is going on.
John, I have been in this business for 9 years and I have been funding my own deals for the last 7 years. The reason I have decided to produce my own course is because of the reasons that you mention, in regards to the lack of information that is coming out of several other programs throughout the industry. See, the way I look at it not only am I teaching the same techniques that I have used and still use in my business today, but I am also providing the students a place to sell the notes that they find or create (I?m a direct funding source) until they acquire enough experience to go out and get their own lines of credit. Isn?t it always better to learn form someone else?s experience and get paid rather then the school of hard knocks and paying. Last time I checked that school it had a very expensive tuition associated with it.
The claims I make on my web site are based on real life experiences on the types of successes that I have had over the last 9 years. And I plain on teaching this to all of my students for their own benefit, I don?t waist time talking about pie in the sky deals that never come together - that to me is a waist of time, money and energy. See my program is not about getting rich quick but about doing the right things to build a business that will provide long term income. That is why I have provided 52 weeks (one day a week) of coaching calls to my students - I am committed to their success. That?s a lot more then anyone else is doing for this industry, wouldn?t you agree. It?s sure a lot different then looking for some ?be a birddog? seminar students.
Last year I did an 18 week Teleseminar and with 26 students and the program received great reviews and success for the students. As a mater of fact Terry Vaughn and I have been tossing around the idea of doing a paper boot camp since 2001. It just happens that our sch. hasn?t worked out for both of us to work together on the matter. So I have decided to do this on my own for the time being. I have also worked side by side with David Butler on several occasions putting on some of his events. I have also done deals with Mike Morrongiello when he worked with Judy Miller at American Note. As a matter of fact just three weeks ago Ed Garcia and I were looking to do a deal together.
See John if you would have done your home work prior to commenting about myself you would have found out that other people around you could have provided you with some insight as to who I am and what I do. I think we call this due diligence???
In regards to my cost for the seminar - Yes I do charge and it is currently sold out for June and starting to fill up for our August event. See I don?t work for free nor do I encourage anyone else to either. I have never received great advice from a Free Banker, Attorney or Accountant.
Don?t Terry and Ed charge for their event??? And they should its great information.
I like the fact that creonline and other educational websites exist, as a matter of fact I am thinking about doing one of my own ? there is value in the information they provide as long as and only if the information is correct. That is the only time you will receive value.
I noticed on your website that all of your articles are self written and so are mine - I take it that you did that because you want to educate people about what worked for you? Well the same is true for me, I write my articles to provide insight into different deals that I have done and how they worked out in order to help people out.
I come from an educator back ground; my mother was a teacher for year so I know how to teach the business in order to create results for my students. I will always spend more time doing deals then doing seminars, that?s what makes the money for me. See I?m not some Marketing Guru or Real Estate Guru I?m an investor and I plan on keeping it that way. Right now I only spend about 5% of my time teaching and 95% of my time working my business. And I plain to keep it that way.
In the future if you want to write / talk about me please take a min. and give me a call at 888-736-5353. It might help with your research.
Wishing you continued success,
Sincerely,
Troy Fullwood
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by James
Posted by James on May 25, 2006 at 22:45:41:
Well I do appreciate the wise counsel and advice. I was thinking the same thing “expensive be a bird dog” seminar. You just don’t know who to trust these days. Everybody and their mama are realestate gurus now.
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by Jim Roybal
Posted by Jim Roybal on May 26, 2006 at 17:45:35:
For whatever it’s worth, Troy Fullwood is based here in Arizona as we are. We do not known him well beyond his presence and reputation as a fellow note buyer in the same market. Troy has an excellent reputation among note sellers and note investors both public and private. I suspect his training materials and their cost are in keeping with his commitment to high standards.
Sincerely,
NOTENATION, L.L.C.
Jim Roybal
Re: You forgot to mention… - Posted by Len
Posted by Len on May 26, 2006 at 24:20:44:
I wholeheartedly agree with your comment about the tremendous amount of information on this web site. It is an incredible resource that affords everyone the opportunity to learn and grow in this business.
Thanks for your contribution!
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on May 31, 2006 at 14:56:16:
I do not offer materials for sale. I pulled them from the market a couple years ago because I don’t want to bother with it. You either have to devote time and effort to it or not. Instead of stating it that way, I put down that they are being revised. Well, based on results that isn’t happening. I haven’t changed the website because I don’t want to get into endless discussions and pleadings with people to bring them out again. Selling courses and seminars has never been a priority for me, yet I continued to offer the recording of my live bootcamp because it is still the best material I have ever seen on the subject. It would be nice to revise it, but I have little time or inclination to do so. I have always offered books, courses and seminars as a service to students solely. I don?t like the circus circuit and have refused to do infomercials or run down the isle with a hundred dollar bill or jump up and down on tables on the real estate evangelist circuit. My bootcamp is usually given away free to people paying as little as $400 to buy a video recording of a full one week advanced seminar. All education and not one minute of fluff as you will see all throughout the web from dozens and dozens of unsolicited student comments.
Years ago people appreciated value much more than they do now. One of the problems with the seminar industry is the “pretty box syndrome”. Students want to and are willing to pay thousands for a pretty box. Yet, too often, the contents are like the cheap trinket in a box of cracher jacks. I’d prefer to give people a grocery sack filled with money so to speak.
I pulled my course from the market when it became all too clear that those who want real value had become a very, very small minority. The day someone griped about a vacuum cleaner passing by through the hall of the seminar hotel was enough for me. A couple others obsessed because some of the page numbers did not match. It?s like someone buying a classic Corvette for a few hundred dollars and complaining about the color of the bumper or small scratch somewhere. I decided they can have their shiny new Yugos for exorbitant prices.
I’ll admit, I do have some “dislikes” that have accumulated as you mentioned. I detest the hype and hoopla just to sell pretty boxes. I have no use for or respect for someone not willing to give true value or with no commitment to their students. If Troy or anyone else rises above that, I would be the first one to point students their direction.
Most of the organizations can be summed up by an interesting experience. I met one day with the seminar director for the first high priced “bootcamp”. He made the statement that he learned more in talking with me for 20 minutes than in a year and a half of directing and sitting through the other two guys bootcamp. He further related an experience where several of their students were upset and wanted their money back after the time of the money back guarantee that applied to the first day. The so-called guru’s comment was “screw them, we’ve got their money.” He was stupid enough to say that while walking past an open air cafe where many of the students were eating and had a little bit of a revolt because of it. Well, revolting people deserve revolts.
Many people have gotten a start by the high priced seminars. As I mentioned, most I have talked to attribute it only as an introduction to the industry and found their success through further education. Thousands more never get that far.
Yet, for the price people paid for fluff and hype, they could have taken a dozen real seminars. For only a portion of the thousands they paid, they could have had many, many books and seminars from people that do know more about the business than just how to market seminars.
In an ideal world, people should pay good prices for education from true pros and most of those charging thousands ought to receive a hundred or two for the information they provide. Some provide less info than someone could get in a few cheap books. One of the problems is those coming through the paper diploma mills don?t even have enough of a grasp of the real industry to recognize the pros from the promoters. They think the person they just paid thousands to created the industry. It reminds me of a convention a few years ago. I was sitting with someone that worked for a company named ?Starker? something. As we were chatting, I mentioned I had been an exchangor from before ?Starker?. She got all offended and thought somehow I was putting down her company or something. She didn?t even realize what an exchangor was, what the Starker decision was and how her own company got it?s name. She seemed to think the term Starker and the concept of exchanging originated with her company instead of a classic court case in the late 70’s.
But, where to me it becomes more than just energetic marketing is when there are un-realistic promises. Promises of making thousands and thousands working a couple hours a day in your jammies. The only pre-requisite being a pre-school education. I’ve just run into too many good - though gullible - people that have invested thousands of dollars (that they did not have, borrowed, put on credit cards, etc.) to chase after the get rich quick gurus. Then, instead of getting value for their money and effort, they get soured and embittered. People that might have had a chance if they had a real education instead feel scammed. Then, even if the so-called guru cared about giving the students value, many are absolutely incapable. Some of the self proclaimed gurus have such an appalling lack of education, they have little choice but to follow a script. A real question about the realities of the industry would leave them speechless. One guru years ago was hired from a Silo store because of his appearance and speaking voice. Others have been in the business a year, done ten deals and somehow think they have arrived. What’s worse is they may have more experience than the guru that taught them.
If you look around a little, you will find few people if anyone that advocates education more than I do. Even though I and most if not all of my students feel there is more education and value in my course than in any other out there, I always advocate students learn all they can from everyone they can. I spend time in every seminar talking about every educator or organization they could learn from. When I have something positive to share about educators I know I do so. I never need to warn people off or steer them away from those who have less to offer. I just open it up to the group and there will always be people there that share the negative kind of feedback and experiences about the less reputable or credible courses or gurus. It’s incredibly rare that anyone has any kind of positive experience with some of them.
One of the first ones to claim to be a direct funding source many years ago was a great example. Over a few years, I only ran into one student who actually sold a note to them and she said she would never work with them again. That she had never been lied to as much in her life.
Just because people have not offered value or commitment to their students doesn?t mean it can?t happen. Just because ?coaching? hasn?t been approached well by many doesn?t mean it can?t be done properly. If Troy as you and he so vigorously proclaim is the real deal, that is great. I?ll be thrilled. And, if the day comes when I have the type of feedback about him as I have had from many, many students of Peter Fortunato, John Schaub or others, then I will be the first to recommend him as I do them. There are two cases where I have not taken their seminars, but I do trust in the many, many intelligent and successful students that rave about them.
There are others like Terry Vaughan, Michael Morrongiello, David Butler, Hank Harrenberg, Jon Richards, Bill Mencarrow and Lonnie Scruggs that have universally happy students as far as I have been told by their students. I value that and trust that as well as my personal experiences with them.
There are some that I?ve rarely heard anything good about. There are others that have some raving reviews and testimonials that turn out the be their relatives, employees, friends, fictitious or naive students caught up in seminar ether or promotional hype. Eventually they get closed down, dis-credited or run off to the next promotion in another business.
So, yes, call me cautious. Say I have ?dislikes?. Whatever. There are very, very good reasons and many, many years of experience that lead to them. Until some new company or educator builds some feedback from students and professionals in the field that leads me to have the confidence to recommend them, then I will caution students or anyone asking me. I will not jump to a negative conclusion and did not do so with Troy. I do not prejudge in a negative way, but I will be cautious before giving a recommendation.
But, when someone asks about spending thousands on a seminar, course or coaching program I do not know about, I will caution them. I and others find the claims on his website to be very similar to others that charge ridiculous prices for programs of little value. I did make the following statement:
?those claims are phenomenal and a sure sign of a get rich promoter?
That may be worded offensively to you or Troy. I remember kind of pausing when I typed that. It is not my normal approach to lump someone in to a group. I wish I had NOT tried to do some due-diligence as Troy suggested I was so lax in doing. With only his website and promotional materials to judge by, it does come across just like some of the others that I find less than reputable.
Maybe I just have a much different approach. I give students as much value as I possibly can. I make few ?get rich quick? type promises and emphasize safety, security and sanity when approaching the business. It is a real, incredible and wonderfully profitable business when someone learns how to do it right. I work hard to teach students a solid and realistic approach both in the knowledge and techniques of the business as well as the personal attributes and qualities that will help them find real success. I teach the risks as well as the rewards. I encourage students to keep food on the table and happy families rather than hyping them up into quitting their jobs or taking potentially disastrous risks. I teach students how to be a professional and profitable investor instead of the ?brokering, bird dog, hype?. A large percentage of my students quickly move to professional investor, realistic funding source and true professional instead of being a low paid note salesman I teach students by real deals, real transactions, real world practical information to safely do the business. If it doesn?t translate from the ?podium to the pavement? I don?t teach it. If it isn?t real, practical, moral and ethical, I don?t teach it. Most new students don?t want to hear that. They want to hear promises, promotions hype and hoopla.
I am NOT OK with a student that puts a course on a shelf or attends a seminar and does nothing. There is only so far an educator can go, but I go as far as I can and in most cases, farther than anyone I know. If personal issues stand in the way of a student?s success, we talk about that, work through that and find solutions. Sometimes that results in me spending twice what a student paid me for a seminar to sponsor them through personal development trainings to get rid of the blocks and barriers preventing them from succeeding at what they have been taught.
I?ve been around too many gurus that laugh about their inactive students. I?ve heard them boast about getting someone to sign over a welfare check to buy a course or coaching program. I?ve heard them describe their own courses as ?crap? that they don?t do or never have done. I?ve seen gurus that have never done a deal claim to be pros, millionaires, the world?s top expert, etc. I?ve walked out of conventions or speaking engagements I have been invited to when I see other gurus lie or take unethical actions. I was turning down doing infomercials long before anyone doing them could define the term or even knew what a discounted mortgage was.
I do absolutely and un-conditionally dislike gurus and organizations that care only about money and little for students. I find it appalling and offensive to see their actions. I end up spending a great deal of my time, money and resources trying to pick up the pieces of the messes they have made. I work hard to give their students a second or real chance to succeed. Funny thing is they come to me claiming they learned nothing from the guru and had no success. Then they go through my seminar and find remarkable success. Then next thing I know, there they are as a testimonial on that gurus infomercial or even an instructor at their seminars.
So anyway, life goes on. I did not mean to offend your friend and do not believe it should have been taken that way. If he is the real deal, no one will be more anxious to hear about it and recommend him than me and I will gladly do that if and when I see it in some way or receive positive feedback from people I trust and respect.
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by Jon D Toellner
Posted by Jon D Toellner on September 11, 2009 at 14:33:50:
I took one of Troy’s courses. At the time he was partnered with Jeff Armstrong. They split the teaching about 50-50.
The course was excellent. It was packed full of pertinent information. There were a plethora of hardcopy materials that we were given and even more if you count what was on Troy’s and Jeff’s web sites. These guys didn’t hold anything back in my opinion.
Both Troy and Jeff were seasoned professionals who not only had extensive expeience, they were very successful in the business. Add to that they they were excellent teachers; the course for me was very worthwhile.
As far as funneling business his way, Troy said he’d be a funding source but he was very clear that he’d support students in working with other funding sources. I didn’t get the impression that he needed more brokers.
Not only did I get value from the course, there were follow-up coaching calls, Troy and Jeff were available for individual consultations. Given that level of commitment I did NOT get the impression these guys were just in this for the tuition.
I think these guys really wanted to help people to get into the business and be successful at it. What they told us in the course was that this is somewhat of a niche business that many people don’t understand. There is plenty of room for more brokers and more funding sources.
Regretably, my engineering business picked up just after I completed the course. I did not pursue the note business but I’m confident if I had Troy and Jeff’s expertise and availability would have enabled me to get a huge head start.
Not only was the course invaluable, Troy is one of the most decent guys I’ve run across. I think he’s doing this because he likes to teach. He’s already very wealthy. Running seminars is allot of work and I don’t get the impression that he’s driven by financial reward.
I’ve attended other courses that were light on content and came away from those very disappointed. This was not one of those.
I believe you could call him on the phone and have a one-on-one conversation with him and I think he’d do this even if you decide not to enroll in his course.
I am not afiliated with either Troy or Jeff any longer. It’s been years since I spoke with them. Because this is something I know about I wanted to give you my candid feedback.
Re: Troy Fullwood ??? - Posted by mike
Posted by mike on June 02, 2006 at 24:07:42:
Troy, I have no doubt that you have had some incredible success in this business. I have been in it for five years. I have the claim to fame of being stupid enough to think that I can start earning more then I do now (75K per year), if I joined another note network and followed what they taught. Guess what Troy, not only didn’t that happen I ended up trying to help a few dozen others that had been suckered in by the “HYPE”. I became the teacher and it only cost me 9k out of my pocket for the privelage.
I will add that after a very pointed letter they returned $8,400 of that investment.
I have no doubt that you have a great deal of knowledge to offer those that are entering this industry. But for there sake and I might add yours do not make claims that only a small few if any will experience.
Be realistic with those that your are trying to teach, let them know it will take dedication and hard work. Tell them if they happen to get lucky on the first shot out of the box they are one of the lucky few.
I am in contact with no less then 75 people that came to me for help from this other company. I will help them only to a point. I am helping them on my free time which is weekends and evenings. I do it gladly at this point because of what the other network led them to believe, call it spite if you will.
I am not out to take money out of anyones pocket for what they have spent time and money to learn and have the right to charge a reasonable amount of money for passing that education along to others. I will however be on those that “HYPE” this industry and offer unrealistic expectations.
You can make a very good living in the note business and no one will argue with that.
Mike