To Refinance or Not!! - Posted by Steve

Posted by Steve on December 13, 2006 at 19:46:34:

Ray,
Sounds like a plan…I will be getting the quotes after the New Year…Just so we are comparing apples to apples…our building is in a Metro area…however, half of the building is leased by a related party company (although financially very sound)…the other 50% of the space is leased by strong companies…(one is a $40 Mil Govt contractor…the other is a $600 Mil Govt Contractor)…they are not however National Credit Tenants by CRE Standard…

Our deal size will be little north of $5 Mil…

All in all, I am not sure we will see any spreads in 80bps range…but, sure would be a nice surprise…:)…I am wondering if your tenant mix is vastly different…

btw…Im a Hokie…but haven’t been down to Blacksburg in almost 10 years…Hear things have changed a lot…sure would be nice to drive my family down the memory lane along Draper’s Meadow… :slight_smile:

Regards

To Refinance or Not!! - Posted by Steve

Posted by Steve on December 04, 2006 at 12:04:30:

We have a fully-leased Class A office building…The building is leased for the next seven years with 3% yearly escalations to solid tenants…

We have been watching the 10-year treasurey dip below 4.5% and hopefully can get 10-year ballon (25/30 yr amort) for about 5.8%-6%.

We have also built up a lot of equity in this property…(our current ROE is 8.3%)…If we refinanced we could get out about $ Three Mil cash and increase ROE on this investment to 22.15%.

So far, it seems like an easy decision.

However our question/dilemma is this…we do not have any other investment ideas yet …so, if we refinanced, we would have to park our money at about 5.5% CD rates and wait for some interesting opportunities to develop over the next year. Or alternatively, wait for something definitive to pop-up before refinancing. (the problem with waiting however is that if the dollar keeps falling, the long rates will explode in our opinion).

Is the risk/reward of refinancing and parking the $$s better than the risk/reward of waiting, possibly higher fixed interest rates, and possibly missing opportunities because of less liquid assets on hand?

We are sure the seasoned investors on this board have gone through similar experiences…Looking forward to hearing your thoughts/comments…

Regards

Steve

Re: To Refinance or Not!! - Posted by Roger

Posted by Roger on December 14, 2006 at 17:18:49:

I would totally agree with Ray. There is definitely going to be some upward pressure on the 10 year over the next 6-12 months. Couple that with some perceived upward pressure on spreads and you could be looking at increasing 50-75 basis points.

I am a correspondent for over 20 life co’s and spreads are all over, from 85 bps for a lower ltv deal to 140-160. We have had some success placing 25 and 30 year fixed rate loans with life co’s. If you have any questions, let me know.

Re: To Refinance or Not!! - Posted by Steve

Posted by Steve on December 07, 2006 at 20:48:58:

Thanks Ray and John…that was great insight…

I am currently getting quotes on both fully amortized and conduit loans…

it seems like 110-130 bps over 10-year treasury for conduits…with fees running about 1% of loan amount…I suspect life-insurance may come in 120-150 bps over…

Are these market terms? can I do better?

Thanks

Steve

Re: To Refinance or Not!! - Posted by John

Posted by John on December 05, 2006 at 19:33:16:

Why would you get a 10 year balloon, when you can get a fixed fully amortizing loan from a life insurance company for only a slightly higher rate (10 -20 bp). The problem with the balloon is there is no way of knowing that it won’t coincide with a severe credit squeeze. Your property may be cashflowing but you still cannot find willing lenders to refinance. Worst of all is a balloon with a yield maintenance or defeasance penalty. Then not only can you not pay it off late, but you really can’t pay it off early either.

There are many life companies that will do 15-20 year fully amortizing loans these days.

Re: To Refinance or Not!! - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on December 05, 2006 at 13:01:51:

Steve,

I’m in a similar situation with two properties right now, and my thinking is similar to yours. And as I weigh the risk/reward of acting now vs. later, the scale tilts toward the former.

Though I think a good case can be made for further decreases in long rates in the second half of '07, I think the potential near-term bottom for the ten-year is only about 50 bps from where we are now (4.4% as of today).

The downside risk of waiting for the potential decrease, as you mentioned, are monetary pressures that could increase long rates (though I don’t agree with the explosion theory), and I think the potential upper bound is around 100bps north of where we are now.

So my guess is the trading range of the 10-year over the next six months is 4%-5.5%, and the potential increase if I wait is 100bps, vs. a potential decrease of 50bps. In my mind that’s a 100% swing toward acting now.

However, don’t lose sight of the big picture. The above range for the next six months is within a longer term trend window that is heading toward 3.5%-5% trading range (according to Bill Gross at PIMCO), and will be evident once the recessionary pressures and consequent uncertainty about reflation are behind us in late '07.

Long term, the global capital glut is with us for a while… Sam Zell said last week that he thinks it will take six to ten years to wring the excess liquidity out of the system.

I agree, and if cheap money is not going away anytime soon, then sustained valuations over the long-term for stabilized assets are likely. And even though it’s a little painful to sit on idle cash, it’s a pretty good problem to have. Let’s hope the continued media hype about an imminent real estate bust will scare some owners into selling!

Your keeping his powder dry host,

ray

Re: To Refinance or Not!! - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on December 11, 2006 at 17:47:12:

Steve,

The quoted spreads are about average for a small deal (e.g.