To be a Realtor of not to be that is the question. - Posted by Todd (MN)

Posted by JT - IN on October 23, 2001 at 16:42:34:

Uncle Ed:

Go a little easier on some of these good natured people, with lots less experience than you. You make some great points, however (don’t you love those howevers), you will often smash a newbie into the ground, on points of menusha. You know that, you know what you are talking about, I know that, you know what you are talking about, but let some of the youngsters realize this “over time”.

Just a thought from someone who “is” in politics. The Mayor of Milan, IN; (actually the President of Council, which functions as the Mayor). That and Fifty cents, will get me a cup of coffee at the corner restaurant; and a guarenteed story about some problem from a little old lady in town, that I must solve right away. Shew.

Congratulations on your RE tenure, and your success. BTW, I have never found anyone that I wanted to work for, except loveable me.

Just the way that I view things…


To be a Realtor of not to be that is the question. - Posted by Todd (MN)

Posted by Todd (MN) on October 19, 2001 at 18:08:59:

I haven’t done any deals yet as I am still studying my books and reading all I can at CRE Online. Would becoming a Realtor be a good match with also being a Real Estate Investor or would it be a conflict of interests?

To be a Realtor of not to be that is the question. - Posted by Ron (MD)

Posted by Ron (MD) on October 21, 2001 at 10:55:31:


I’m a rehabber and I got my RE license to get access to MLS. It is something I would hate to do without.

I buy most of my fixers through MLS. I’m in an area with a lot of competition (even for junkers), and having direct MLS access makes a difference. I’d guess that roughly half of the houses I buy have been on the market for less than 24 hours. I check new listings on MLS at least once a day and, if I see a good prospect, I quickly go see it and make an offer.

I don’t want to rely on a low-paid agent to have the same sense of urgency that I have.

A good analogy is credit reports. I signed on with a credit reporting company so I could pull my own credit reports for prospective buyers. Here, everyone will tell you to refer them to a loan officer and have him pull credit reports for free. If I have a prospect that seems like a possible winner, I want to know it now, not in a few days when the loan officer gets around to it. I want control and I’m willing to pay for it.

Here’s a good example. A house came on the market the other day. I immediately went to take a look at it. While I was there, another investor happened by. He said he’d had his eye on it and was seriously interested. Me? Well, I played stupid…“I don’t know anything about it, I just work for a contractor and was sent here to inspect it, etc.” I suppose his agent alerted him within a day or two that it was on the market. Unfortunately (for him), I already had it under contract.

Ron Guy

Not! - Posted by dewCO

Posted by dewCO on October 21, 2001 at 10:20:06:

Ed Copp’s story is likely one in a million, or at least rare. Don’t need one to be investing, mainly need MLS access.

Re: To be a Realtor - Posted by DJ

Posted by DJ on October 19, 2001 at 19:52:39:

The only advantage you would have by being a realtor is access to your MLS (Multiple Listing Service), which you would have anyway if you find a realtor to work with you. By becoming a realtor, you also have alot more ethical commitments, and are required to disclose that you are an agent/broker in any of your transactions. If you are caught in violation of your local licensing laws, you can have your license revoked by your local Real Estate Commission and face possible fines or a lawsuit for damages from Buyer/Seller. For merely investment purposes, I wouldn’t think it would be worth the trouble to become a Real Estate Agent. I would try to find a Realtor willing to work with you. Sellers are usually responsible for the agents commission, however, in North Carolina, it is a violation of Licensing Laws for an agent to receive compensation for “Bird-Dogging”. This is not to say it’s never been done!
Good Luck…DJ

Re: DJ missed - Posted by Ed Copp (OH)

Posted by Ed Copp (OH) on October 20, 2001 at 21:00:27:

a couple of things.

It is nothing short of “not too smart” to think that just because you do not have a license to protect that you will be exempt from doing business in an ethical manner. It just ain’t so. You can get sued just like someone who is licensed, and probably a good bit quicker if you have not bothered to find out what the laws are. It seems most likely that this commentary is coming from an unlicensed person. Much of it is inaccorate.

Personally I would consider it an asset to be licensed to engage in the real estate business, but my comment is based on my experience as a long time broker in my state.

An interesting thing happened a couple of weeks ago today. Someone called me on one of my “Bandit Signs” (and yes they do have my company name on them). They wanted to sell me a house with some land for a little over $100,000. As luck would have it, my checking account was a little short for that one. The only day they could see me was on Sunday. Since I could not offer thier price (even if I did have the money, which I did not at the time). I could not offer thier price because the place was a showplace, and the need to sell was not urgent. They want to build a new house on some land that they already own. So I listed the property “for sale” with the real estate company that I own. To make a long story shorter, I sold that house today (13 days after listing it). Shortly I should have a commission check. That is one of the benefits of being licensed,one of the things that DJ missed.

Re: To be a Realtor - Posted by Bill S. (Ohio)

Posted by Bill S. (Ohio) on October 20, 2001 at 05:07:25:

On the other hand, being a Realtor AND investor is rather nice. I have learned a lot doing deals for other folks over the last five years and have learned how to avoid some of the major mistakes. I’ve also gotten to know several investors in the local area that I would never have known if I wasn’t a Realtor. Also, I know the financing markets better and I know who to take what type of loan too. If I don’t know which bank is looking for a specific type of loan, I have loan officers that I can call. Realtors can also access the local and national Realtor sites that have lots of good info. not so readily available to the general public. So, is it worth it? I’d say ‘yes’!

Re: DJ missed - Posted by drosengarden

Posted by drosengarden on October 21, 2001 at 16:51:43:


Thanx for all your input regarding the Agent/Broker topic.

You may have noticed my post to DJ, and one earlier regarding my medical discharge from the military. I will have access to some awesome benefits from the VA that will pay me while attending training for the job market that I wish to participate in.

You said that you have 30 years experience in the business, right? Well, I could’t have found a better individual to run this across.

Under the VA’s Vocational Rehabilitation (VocRehab), I will get paid a decent chunck of non taxable, non reportable change WHILE attending training that is PAID for in order to become more marketable for that position. I figured, I want to do REI and am serious about it. I know there is a major learning curve and I thought it would be an excellent thing to get paid to learn it. Getting to know the areas, the people, the professions, the contacts, etc., etc. and not to mention the ability to make money on deals I didn’t want to purchase, just like you mentioned, the tools available to me, yadda, yadda… This seems like it would be the most valuable thing to do, considering I get paid to get the training paid for in order to get a spiffy resume.

I’m not interested in being employed long term, but long enough should there be base income in addition to commission in order to get a SAFE, effective and efficient exposure. See, otherwise my job is collecting on bad credit card debts. Sure there’s tons of opportunity with people on foreclosures, but they’re all out of state! :wink:

What I’m asking, what do you recommend? The VA is soon to put me up to the task of Informational Interviewing to find out absolutely ALL the training and tools I can get my hands on in order to be the most professional and marketable person in that position there is.

What kind of training do I look for? Agent? Broker? Both? What about Realtor training that focuses on being a Creative Real Estate salesperson/investor. I know Carlton Sheets did mention something of a Realtor designation that signifies their knowledge in creative real estate and financing. What about tools. Laptops? Software? Printers? Etc, etc. I mean (again, if you have the time!) Hold nothing back because the VA won’t either.

Thanx in advance!


Re: DJ missed - Posted by DJ

Posted by DJ on October 21, 2001 at 10:20:50:

The original post from Todd was asking whether or not he should get a RE license to practice investing. In my followup to Bill, I stated that there is certainly nothing wrong with getting one, but if it were just to buy and sell real estate it wasn’t necessary unless he wants to go through the process. As far as my comments being innaccurate, how can you begin to comment with knowledge on NC Licensing laws when you are in OH? Also, I never suggested doing business in an unethical manner, I was only trying to inform him of the responsibilities that you you are obligated to when you are licensed. What are you suggesting here…that everyone who wants to invest in Real Estate go out and get licensed? I congratulate you on your quick sell of the property you listed. It’s a rare occasion that a property sells that quickly. Your opinion about this comment being from an unlicensed person is merely just that. An opinion. You know what they say about opinions…
Duane Jordan (BIC)
Blue Ridge Properties, LLC
Want the License #…?

Re: To be a Realtor - Posted by DJ

Posted by DJ on October 20, 2001 at 09:38:53:

I agree…being a broker myself has proven to be advantageous a time or two, but it has also had it’s drawbacks in certain situations. The original post is from a new investor and was asking whether or not it would help him with his investing if he was to become a Realtor. The RE Licensing laws differ from state to state, and you know as well as I that you don’t become a realtor overnight. In NC, you are required to have 67 hours of classroom instruction and pass the final exam for the class before you can even apply to take the state exam. That’s just to become an agent. There is an additional 67 hour course that must be successfully completed before you can become a broker. There is absolutely nothing wrong with continuing your education, but for the mere purpose of trying to buy investment properties, I would say spend your time and money learning the programs presented on this site. On the other hand, if you have the desire to become a Realtor and you are going to pursue a career in Real Estate Sales, by all means do so. It certainly will introduce you to the market, and you might make a little money while you learn. Best of Luck! DJ

Re: Not sure what state you are in. - Posted by Ed Copp (OH)

Posted by Ed Copp (OH) on October 21, 2001 at 19:37:30:

There are programs in most if not all states that can be of benefit to you in your situation. If your interest is real estate you can study the courses necessary to become licensed as a real estate salesperson. This comes before broker. Even if you decide not to go into the sales area you will at least be qualified.

Other areas that you might consider are appraisal, and mortgage brokering. Both will lead you to a lot of business situations that are not readily available to the general public.

There is even a college in my state that offers a course in “creative real estate investing” go figure. You could get the government to pay for what you want, and need it is just a matter of location it.

Go for it.

Re: Hang in there Duane… - Posted by Ed Copp (OH)

Posted by Ed Copp (OH) on October 21, 2001 at 13:35:20:

You (and I too ) have a lot that can be learned if we do not close our minds.

My point is that it might be good to have another option when I choose not to purchase. Actually there are lots of options. The listing contract with my company is only one of many. It is o.k. with me if you choose not to use that one.

Your original post leaves one with the idea that if a person is unlicensed that they can get away with doing business in an unethical manner. This is absolutely true, incidentally; and does not make life any easier for any of us.

Consider a few things that you perhaps did not think of. Since most states have real estate licensing (and every other kind, too ) laws on line, could it be possible that I might have some limited knowledge of the laws in your state?

Could it be possible that a broker who has been in business for more than 30 years, as I have might have been licensed in more than one state?

To get a LLC licensed in my state you must be able to write a check and fill out a form (available on line) so why would someone want to know what your LLC license number is anyway? It serves no useful purpose that I can see except to skirt some liablilty that you might have had were you not licensed as a LLC…Hmmm…

Re: To be a Realtor - Posted by drosengarden

Posted by drosengarden on October 21, 2001 at 16:40:02:


I appreciate your interest and activity in posting regarding this subject. It sounds like you have some knowledge regarding the RE agent/broker thing. You said you are an agent/broker as well, did I get that right?

The reason I am posting to you is this:

You may have seen my post earlier regarding a medical discharge from the military. Along with this disability comes some nice VA benefits, one of which is called Vocational Rehabilitation (VocRehab.) With this program, I will more than likely be entitled to job training. The VocRehab is only a job PLACEMENT program, but based on an assesment of what you already know as well as what you would enjoy doing based on interests, ability, and values testing, VocRehab is willing to pay for all your training, tools, etc., etc., in order to place you in a job.

SO, geting paid WHILE getting the education and tools PAID FOR seemed quite an interesting opportunity to me. Having focused on REI and a desire to get out there, learn the market, become more familiar with processes, closings, mortgage officers, etc., etc., I figured what an awesome way to get my exposure and knowledge: Get PAID to attend all the training that is PAID for and then get a job that will PAY for my continuing access and education to the real estate market in my area.

What do you think? And, what do you recommend? It will soon be my JOB to research all that I can about Real Esate Agents and Brokers. Do I want to get the broker training? What kind of tools will I need. What kind of education can I get that will make me a HIGHLY marketable agent/broker (specifically, what kind of formal training can I get on creative real estate selling/buying.)

I know Carlton Sheets mentioned a couple of designations that realtors can have that signify that they are well trained in Creative Real Estate and Financing.

Lay it all on the line for me (if you have time, please) and hold nothing back, because for the VA, they won’t either.

Thanx in advance!


Re: Not sure what state you are in. - Posted by drosengarden

Posted by drosengarden on October 27, 2001 at 13:12:55:

Thanx for your response, Ed.

I like the ideas about other occupations related to the RE market that would help me get exposure to deals that general investors might not have. I may need these suggestions.

My VA counselor tells me that the VA will most likely look at a RE salesperson as a self employed person, not a salaried person and therefore not pick up any of the training. She suggested that I go into property management. She used to be an onsite manager, they paid her rent and a couple hundred for util’s and food. This would be good exposure to building, tenants, and facing problems. There’s also a chance that the RE broker who offers property managers require that they have their RE sales license for the knowledge of showing buildings, etc. This kind of training the VA might pick up.

What about appraiser? That might be a good thing too. I mean, that would REALLY allow me to know if a building is worth the investment or time. I would have access to getting market values. What about fix up value? Is that part of normal appraiser training? Knowing what a property will be valued after fix up? Hmmm…however, I think appraisers are self employed too, right?

What else could I do? One guy even suggested heating and air so I could fix those problems on my own, but there’s not too much RE exposure there. You’re on my track Ed (being the broker and investor that you are). I’m looking for maximum exposure to the REI market, a paid position that gives me that experience and exposure and it would have to be proven to the VA that it is a salaried position.

Thanx for all you time again!


Re: Hang in there Duane… - Posted by DJ

Posted by DJ on October 21, 2001 at 16:24:28:

This could go on and on if we let it. I simply answered a post from someone asking for advice and you came along accusing me of being inaccurate, unlicensed, and ethically wrong. That’s fine. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. The fact is, I am licensed as a Broker and a General Contractor as well as having formed a LLC partnership with some other investors. Attempting to prove this is pointless. I have nothing to prove!
You do business your way, I do business mine. That’s what makes the world go ‘round. I also realize that when you post here, you open yourself up to ridicule, which is one of the reasons I don’t post often. It’s up to the people who read these posts to decide which one’s they agree with, and use the discussions to their advantage. I apologize to anyone who I might have misled with my original post. It was a simple mistake in the way I worded it…if anyone took it the wrong way. I congratulate you on your 30 years of success in the Real Estate business. All though, I haven’t been in the business 30 years, I have been in it long enough to know when an arguement is going nowhere. So, Touche’ Ed. See ya’ next round.

Re: To be a Realtor - Posted by DJ

Posted by DJ on October 21, 2001 at 17:42:53:

If you have followed the discussion in this particular string, namely between Ed Copp and me, maybe you should be asking him these questions. He seems to be the authority on this subject. However, I appreciate your faith in me.
Alot of this will depend on which state your from or plan to practice Real Estate in. Most Real Estate training is offered through private schools. That is to say, they are not state funded schools. Alot of them are offered and sponsored by particular Real Estate Agencies. I got my training through a school offered by Coldwell Banker. In turn, this helps them to recruit new agents by letting them pick over the attendants of their schools. However, you must pay for these schools. There is no paid training. In North Carolina, you must first pass the real estate sales agent course, then pass the broker course(if you are going to become a broker) Both of these include 67 hours each of classroom training. You can take the state exam after the agent course, or you can take it after completing the broker course. But you are required to complete both courses in order to become a broker. Either way, there is only 1 state exam. Every year you are required to take 4-8 hours of continuing education in order to be able to renew your license. The object of the course is to get you licensed. Keep in mind, just because you pass the state exam, there is still alot to be learned. The broker you go to work for will teach you the ins & outs of being an RE Agent. You must be licensed as a broker to be able to receive direct compensation (commission) from a real estate transaction(unless you are a private investor). If you are a sales agent, the only way to make money (legally) is to work for a licensed Broker. The broker is paid from proceeds at closing, then he pays you. What I meant by the comment I made about making a little money as you learn was that after you go to work for a broker as an agent, you might be able to move(sell) a few properties during the time you are learning the market and how it works. Regardless of whether you sell anything or not, there are no salaries and there are no guarantees. You are on straight commission buddy. And you are usually responsible for your own office expenses depending on the commission structure. It’s what you make out of it as to what it will be. If you’ve got a good personality, good communication skills, some salesmanship, not afraid of people, and alot of patience, you should be OK. I don’t know how it will pan out with your VA benefits as far as them paying for your training, but if that’s the avenue you wish to pursue, it certainly would be worth checking into. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck. Anymore questions, feel free to ask. Email me directly if you like. DJ

Don’t let Uncle Ed rattle you… - Posted by JT - IN

Posted by JT - IN on October 22, 2001 at 15:28:25:


I read, and understood exactly what you were saying in your origianl post. I agree with your opinion here.

Uncle Ed likes to stick up for the RE professionals whenever he gets a chance. Got something to do with those 300 years he has been a RE agent. Oops, I meant 30 years. LOL

Don’t let folks like Ed keep you from posting here. You have as much to offer as anybody else, and offer away when you feel the urge. Don’t be intimidated when youu open yourself up, just stop answering someone when it appears that it is gong nowhere, but continue to offer your opinion and good advice.

Just the way that I view things…


Re: Agent for 2 years only - Posted by Ed Copp (OH)

Posted by Ed Copp (OH) on October 23, 2001 at 14:43:57:

Then a broker for 30 or so, just could not find anybody that I could work for. Agent and Broker are different you know…

Never been in politics.

Re: Thanks…JT! - Posted by DJ

Posted by DJ on October 22, 2001 at 17:12:58:

Thanks JT! No permanent damage! DJ