Posted by Rich-CA on February 27, 2008 at 18:20:58:
CA had some very liberal judges on the Rose Bird court. They struck down constitutional amendments (which they have no authority to strike down), they overturned every death penalty, including people like Charles Manson. Finally the people got fed up and recalled them from the bench in a massive recall election. Our courts are not conservative by any stretch, but their decisions are much more reasonable than before.
This is unbelievable!!! - Posted by Eric in FL
Posted by Eric in FL on February 27, 2008 at 06:42:24:
I am amazed at how low things are going in my local area and doing some simple calculations on values I believe it has 20% - 30% more to go. I am not selling this unit or have anything to do with it but I am posting it to display the crazy downslide that is going on.
http://daytona.craigslist.org/rfs/586518045.html
Long term investors have you ever seen anything like this? 60’s, 70’s, 80’s? I am watching things being sold at 40% of what they sold for 1.5 - 2 years ago. Amazing.
Best Regards,
Eric
cut and paste the listing - Posted by steve
Posted by steve on February 28, 2008 at 06:31:51:
why didn’t you just cut and paste the listing?
I feel your pain - Posted by gerald(tx)
Posted by gerald(tx) on February 27, 2008 at 12:50:58:
Here in the DFW area, prices only increased less than 1% this past year. That’s down from the 2.9% the previous year.
You guys had your party with rip-roaring appreciation. We didn’t participate in the bubble so we’re not participating in its collapse.
If you were on the right side of it, great! What you are observing is just a normalization of the market. Don’t make the mistake of thinking the top of the market was the norm, and be basing your view from that perspective.
Its always something - Posted by Rich-CA
Posted by Rich-CA on February 27, 2008 at 10:22:25:
In the 1980s, Japan had a really huge RE crash that took them 20 years to start emerging from. Same symptoms. Over building coupled with over pricing. My rule of thumb is that the more outrageous the price increases, the steeper the dive when they get to the cliff. Condos are just individually owned apartments and I notice the listing did not say anything about the monthly HOA dues.
I think some price elevation will remain because of the location. It is a walk to the beach which is very difficult from places located in, say, Oklahoma.
Re: This is unbelievable!!! - Posted by arlanj
Posted by arlanj on February 27, 2008 at 09:36:48:
It is all about where the house is. In Oklahoma, 1784 sq ft would be $100-110 per foot. $196,240.00 new
I’m a little young to remember the 80s… - Posted by James - Michigan
Posted by James - Michigan on February 27, 2008 at 09:06:46:
But I bet they were close to what prices are now.
That IS pretty low in value…subject to SS w/ lender, but I hear FL has a lot of those at the moment,
so it might be the ‘right’ price for the lender.
Are people in your market telling you that it’s TERRIBLE and anyone thinking about getting into RE
right now is CRAZY too? lol I just laugh at them now.
And hold onto multiple properties for a couple years so
I can sell them for 400% profit.
Thanks for posting.
James
No it is not - Posted by Rich-CA
Posted by Rich-CA on February 27, 2008 at 16:09:52:
Just copied and pasted the URL and got the post just fine.
Re: Its always something - Posted by Eric in FL
Posted by Eric in FL on February 27, 2008 at 11:40:14:
Rich,
The scary thing is that the HOA fees are $300 a month and the tax bill is $6400 per year and oh the insurance would be $3000 a year. Retirees are not going to go for a huge out of pocket expense and Florida does not have “high income” jobs like California or New York. South Florida has 60,000 condos under construction as I am writing this. Wait until those are finished.
Best Regards,
Eric
Re: I’m a little young to remember the 80s… - Posted by Eric in FL
Posted by Eric in FL on February 27, 2008 at 11:35:37:
The funny thing is that it is terrible. That very condo’s tax bill is $6400 per year and insurance is $3000. Add that to an HOA of $300 a month and you are looking at $650 a month for the other fees. This is the issue with Florida right now and that is why these values will continue to plummet. I have been investing here for 10 years as a “cash flow investor” and the taxes and insurance have become a huge issue. The really funny thing is that the local governments got so fat and happy off the tax roll and now these values are dropping and what are they going to do? Have you ever seen the government cut back? Of course not. I can’t wait to watch this ride and buy when the time is right. Cash flow always wins the race.
Best Regards,
Eric
Never fails - Posted by Jack
Posted by Jack on February 27, 2008 at 19:25:14:
Someone posts a link, someone else posts that the link doesn’t work.
FL sounds ripe for… - Posted by Rich-CA
Posted by Rich-CA on February 27, 2008 at 13:01:31:
…a Proposition 13 type movement. Can people put initiatives on the ballot and change the state constitution that way?
The new buyers in CA pay the highest property taxes, BUT they know going in what those taxes will be and they know they can only go up 2% valuation per year (unless you sell) and that the tax rate is fixed at 1% base plus up to 0.5% for voter passed bonds.
OTH the income tax here peaks at 12%.
Re: I’m a little young to remember the 80s… - Posted by michaela-CA
Posted by michaela-CA on February 27, 2008 at 11:44:02:
Eric,
but do you expect that to be changing anytime soon in FLorida? I mean, in my area I expect the downslide to last at least another 1.5-2 years until we hit rock bottom. I would suspect Florida has just as many upcoming foreclosures in the next year or so like other areas. So, that with the government, Insurance companies and HOA probably not exactly dropping their rates, don’t you expect this to last a few more years down there? There will be a lot of inventory on the market for a long time. So, even if the prices drop and you can get the condo for 100K, having the extra 1K in other monthly costs would make it impossible to rent for cashflow I would think.
Michaela
still says deleted by author - Posted by steve
Posted by steve on February 28, 2008 at 06:27:39:
still says deleted!!!
Just to put that in perspective - Posted by Killer Joe
Posted by Killer Joe on February 27, 2008 at 18:31:39:
Rich,
Just to put your statement, “The new buyers in CA pay the highest property taxes”, in perspective so others who aren’t familiar with what Prop 13 did for homeowners, here’s a little example…
A house I sold in 2005 was sandwiched between two houses that were both still owned by their respective original purchasers circa 1951.
The taxes for those houses were/are under $600.00 per year. My buyers tax bill was/is in excess of $8000.00 per year.
That’s a big diff to be sure.
KJ
Re: FL sounds ripe for… - Posted by Eric in FL
Posted by Eric in FL on February 27, 2008 at 13:53:20:
Rich,
Florida has the “Save our homes” proposition which only allows a “homesteaded” property to rise 3% per year in taxes. Well of course the governments said we can’t get those guys but we can get the landlords, second home owners (retirees), and commercial property. They passed some idiotic amendment in January that says that non homesteaded properties can only go up 10% per year. Well the damage is already done and it won’t go up anyway because values are dropping dramatically. We have no state income tax and there was preliminary suggestion and thought to abolish all property taxes and raise the sales tax (consumption tax) and the liberals went nuts. No need for governent agencies scared the heck out of them. So here we are.
Best Regards,
Eric
Re: I’m a little young to remember the 80s… - Posted by Eric in FL
Posted by Eric in FL on February 27, 2008 at 12:07:23:
Michaela,
I think we have a very long ride down. I could go into statistical evidence but that would be as boring as watching paint dry. There is enough inventory in my area to last 5 - 6 years. Of course, these are not all motivated sellers but the majority of people who are selling now want to. Cash flow targets are coming back around but my specialty is 2 - 4 unit properties and they don’t even come close to working. The local governments assess them at “highest and best use”. So, I have a duplex that gets $1200 a side and I have to pay close to $9000 in property taxes because of the location. It’s absurd but this is what we deal with. It will change when enough damage is done and then it will be time to buy, buy, buy.
Best Regards,
Eric
Re: Just to put that in perspective - Posted by Rich-CA
Posted by Rich-CA on February 27, 2008 at 20:30:26:
Certainly and Prop 13 was designed to deal with the rapacious state spending plus some of the real problems FL is having with people on fixed incomes being forced out because suddenly that taxes are multiple times the mortgage and they just flat out do not have the money. A new buyer should find out what their taxes are going to be on the HUD-1 and, if its a deal killer, they can still kill the deal.
Re: FL sounds ripe for… - Posted by Rich-CA
Posted by Rich-CA on February 27, 2008 at 16:00:06:
Does this mean citizens do not have the right to petition and place an amendment on the ballot? We frequently have ballot propositions placed by the citizens as a way to overturn things done by our legislature.