Posted by SusanL.–FL on August 15, 2000 at 08:08:23:
nt.
The Difference Betweent the Big Investor and the Small Investor - Posted by Paul
Posted by Paul on August 14, 2000 at 08:17:33:
I always find it interesting talking to investors who are at different levels in their investment careers. To me, there’s noticeable differences. I see it a lot on this site as well as in my investment club. What do you think?
Small - Mid Size Investor
- Conservative, suspicious of other RE investors
- Usually doesn’t believe in aiding or advising other investors - typically has an attitude of “why should I help the competition?”
- Usually won’t share information on where he invests or what his focus (i.e. L/O, flips) is. Doesn’t want the competition to “farm” his spot.
Large Investor
- Open minded, trusting (to a degree) of other RE investors
- Wants to “give back” or aid other investors - has an attitude of “hey, I did it, I want to show everyone else how to do it too”
- Easily shares information on where he invests, what his strategy/expertise is. Isn’t scared off by the competition - knows he will be successful regardless of who is working the same area as him.
Here’s hoping that someday the small investor will learn that sharing with other investors is a win/win for both sides and shouldn’t be regarded as “giving away secrets”. Yes, I know that some small investors are very open to sharing knowledge and experiences - but only to a certain point.
A Little Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing! - Posted by Troy M
Posted by Troy M on August 15, 2000 at 07:36:42:
Paul,
I don’t know about big, small or middle of the road differences. But, I do know that real estate investing can be complicated at best. Personally, I have literally spent years studying different investing methods, learning my market, talking with sellers, buyers, bankers, real estate agents, mortgage brokers, inspectors, surveyors, contractors, lawyers, CPA’s, and of course CREonliners (and I would consider myself in the small to mid-size investor of your categories). I also know I am a terrible teacher, you need only ask my ever-patient wife to learn that. I can not (and don’t want to) share all of the hard-earned knowledge I have acquired. Not because I’m hiding secrets, but because I don’t have the time or teaching skill to do so and much of the information is ‘case specific’. I am less than enthusiastic about sharing with investors of less experience, because I don’t want to be responsible for their investing decisions.
For example, In 1999 I attended the CRE convention. During the ‘round table’ discussions, I was listening in to Ed Garcia’s table when I overheard a guy discussing his investment. I don’t remember all of the details, but the long and the short of it was he had bought an income property and was getting an 8% cash-on-cash return. It is possible there were extenuating circumstances that made that investment a good one, however, it appeared that the guy had taken a little bit of investing education and made a terrible investment. Not the end of the world, but you get my point.
I have talked with many investors whom were trying to learn investing and I’ve tried to be helpful, even still, I had to keep a ‘Russ Whitney’ students’ earnest money once. (Believe me, I’m not bragging here, I’d much rather he’d have performed) That very well may have been the guys last investment, I don’t know. Most would-be investors don’t make it. There is a learning/education process and it’s not easy. Courses like the ones offered here certainly help, but as Ed Garcia has said, " the street is the best teacher". (Or something similar). I don’t know you or where you are in investing, but I hope you got my point, despite my lack of communication skills. Who was it that said you can learn something from everyone, even those you don’t like?
Troy M
Re: The Difference Betweent the Big Investor and the Small Investor - Posted by Karon
Posted by Karon on August 14, 2000 at 21:13:42:
I phoned all the “big” guys around here when I first started out. Alot of these guys discouraged me and certainly offered no help. I thought it sad then and I think it sad now. A certain personality type stays insecure.
Re: The Difference Betweent the Big Investor and the Small Investor - Posted by Eric C
Posted by Eric C on August 14, 2000 at 18:24:53:
Hi -
Interesting thread.
I think that you will find that success, like money, merely accentuates the character of those who find it.
In other words, it makes you more of what you already are.
If you are a thoughtful, sharing person, then you will become more so. On the other hand, if your personality tends more to the miserly side of paranoia, then what people do on your gravesite probably won’t pass for flowers.
This is not a new observation; it’s as old as civilization itself.
What so many forget is that success (or the lack of it) is working on us just as diligently as we are working on it.
Good luck,
Eric C
I think it’s mostly experience and being comfortable… - Posted by dewCO
Posted by dewCO on August 14, 2000 at 18:23:32:
and that takes more deals for some than others.
Personality is the KEY here, not “How big” the investor is. - Posted by Jim IL
Posted by Jim IL on August 14, 2000 at 15:38:00:
Paul,
I hope that you are not offended, and are a frequent enough visitor here to see that most of us “agree to disagree” on occassion.
People are all unique, in that we all have different personalities.
I have gained useful info here and other places from investors both large and small.
I have noticed some investors are down right nasty when you try to talk to them about ideas etc. (Fear of competition.)
For those, I simply smile and walk away.
Others are so open it is wonderful.
For me, I am a “mid-level” investor.
I have done as many as 8 deals in a month, and as few as one per month.
(And some would even say 8/month is still small time.)
Too each there own.
What helps me determine whether or not I will share ideas or discuss investing is really based on four things for me.
-
My time. Do I have any to spare at the moment?
See, if I am in the middle of SEVERAL deals, you will not see me post here. My stress level may be a little higher, as I am juggling a few things.
Also, if I have NOTHING on my plate, being here is not priority one. -
My mood. Am I in a good mood where I can be open and not come off as short tempered or get frustrated easily with questions or answers from either party, me or the other.
If I am in a foul mood, (not very often, LOL!), then it is not a good idea for me to talk to others about investing or anything else for that matter. -
My financial status. (This relates directly to number one.)
Even though this may sound selfish, my own financial well being MUST and WILL take precedence.
My family needs to be secure. (Food and clothing are essential.)
There are times when I will post here and goto the chat room a few times a day, and other times when I will not even turn on the computer for days or weeks.
It really depends on my schedule. -
Willingness to learn. When talking to a “newbie”, has this person thought about and studied at all or do they want “FREE INFO with NO WORK!”?
I know that I have and probably will continue to ask questions here that may sound “Stupid” or simple to others, but this is a process we must all go through. But, to ask things that are SO BASIC and can be obtained with reading and study FOR FREE is downright frustrating. I TRY not to be harsh about this with others, and have often referred others to good sources for learning.
So, you see Paul, each investor is different because we are all people.
Example: I have one local investor working the same area I am and using many of the same methods. when I first talked to him he denied having EVER heard of or read any of the materials offered here. (Legrand).
Then, while talking to another investor as he returned from a Legrand Bootcamp, I was told that he had talked to this first guy there and he claimed to “know me”.
Honestly, I am a rather bold person, and when I had a chance to talk to this other local investor again, I called his bluff.
He admitted that he was simply afraid to “Help the competition”.
We are still not the best of buddies, and that is fine. Let him think that I am this great investor to fear.
But, I have on occassion called on him and shared ideas.
I was trying to get a deal done here a few months back and it fell apart. The seller backed out.
A few weeks later I saw the same home advertised in the local paper as “Rent to own” with the other investors phone number. I called him up and told him that I had been working that deal and lost it. No big deal, things happen.
I then asked him a few questions to see what he did differently.
His response did not suprise me. He did nothing really too earth shatteringly different than I.
He was even told by the seller that they had already talked to me, and backed out. The seller was then too embarrassed to call me back and called on his ad in the paper.
I had to chuckle a bit because his terms were not quite as good as what I had “almost” worked out, but he got the deal.
I then congratulated him on the deal and hung up feeling better.
Time got him this deal, not his GREAT skills above mine.
So, do what works for you, and remember, EVERY person in the world has something to offer. It is there personality and how they deal with there circumstances in life that give them a willingness to share or not.
Nothing more.
Good luck to you, and by all means, share what you want when you want,
Jim IL
Big and Little Investors share differently - Posted by Nancy Cason
Posted by Nancy Cason on August 14, 2000 at 12:05:39:
It has been many months since I have visited CREonline. I’ve been busy and am in a holding pattern on my “investing”. So today at lunch I logged on just to see what has been going on. This conversation was worth responding to.
Paul, I can understand the points made by the other respondents,however, I do not think you are full of sourgrapes. There are differences between who and how information is shared by people visiting CREonline. I do not think it has to do with being either a Big or Little investor.
Teaching takes time and busy people don’t like to waste time or energy. It can be very discouraging to be asked the simplest of questions over and over. You can tell by some of the queries that people have not taken the time to read a book or research on their own. It is as if they want to be spoon fed. Others are in the process of learning and it shows in the type of questions they ask.
One reason people don’t share easily is that they may not feel confortable speaking on subjects in areas other than the type of investing they are most familiar with. For instance I am a landlord. I buy and hold. I do not resell to take profits. I am now in a period where I am concentrating on reducing debt, so I would only respond to people in a like situation or just add to interesting conversation.
FOR ME, the best thing about the CREonline family is that it keeps me interested in real estate. From attending the conventions I can now place some faces to the names. I have met some fine people and have learned alot. When I get ready to enter into another area of investing I will be able to contact people in that same area or interest.
Learning is still the responsibility of the individual, others can only point the way. The individual must choose which path to take and must initiate the action. Taking action and learning from the results is the key to learning. The information is awailable for those who continue to dig.
Yes, some people are more willing to share than others. There are many reasons.
HAVE FUN AND KEEP A POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE
REGARDS, NANCY
Re: The Difference Betweent the Big Investor and the Small Investor - Posted by Ed Garcia
Posted by Ed Garcia on August 14, 2000 at 10:35:47:
Paul,
Your observation is interesting. As a matter of fact, I have found it to be the opposite of what you are telling us.
I find it interesting that we can see things so differently. Paul, if I were to categorize Big investors and Small investor, I would have found the difference to be in their buying habits, not necessarily their personal attitude. The investors that I know and consider Big investors, usually invest in Commercial properties. Most of my associates usually talk in the millions and are usually Hush, Hush, about their investment until after they’ve closed it.
I also categorize investors but in a different manner.
The first type of investor is one that you more than likely will find on this site. They usually start out with nothing and are willing to take risks because of it. They learn investing and in their wheeling and dealing, they learn to be creative in order to do their deals.
The second type of investor is one that has money and assets and is looking for a place to park their money or a property to invest it in. They are usually a professional such as a doctor or lawyer and are seeking investments as a secondary source of income. They like to purchase property with upside potential and are willing to take some risk. Many times they’ll form investment groups.
The third type of investor is an older investor that has become conservative in their investments and want what we call coupon clipper type of properties, such as Wall Marts or K-Marts at triple net.
Paul, I could give you more detail but I’m sure that you can see, that I see things a little differently than you do.
I think it’s interesting how we all see investing so differently and from a different prospective, but that’s what this board is all about.
Ed Garcia
Re: The Difference Betweent the Big Investor and the Small Investor - Posted by Rob FL
Posted by Rob FL on August 14, 2000 at 09:49:07:
I do agree some with Lance. Most of the big-time investors that I know (and I am talking ones who turn 20 to 50 or more houses a year) don’t attend our local REI club.
The ones that do are either wholesalers trying to flip properties to other investors, hard money lenders trying to make a buck (in addition to their investing), or landlords who are doing the buy and hold thing and therefore don’t have nearly the competition.
Most of the people eager to share are small to mid-level investors. This is because they are learning and want to discuss ideas with other investors. Just my personal observations.
Re: The Difference Betweent the Big Investor and the Small Investor - Posted by Lance
Posted by Lance on August 14, 2000 at 09:02:05:
Seems to be more like thinly veiled sour grapes than an observation. It has been my observation that most genuine ‘large’ investors dont go to investment clubs. And that most people that claim to be large investors are just fulltime BSers.