Stewardship, Abundance, revisted.......... - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by Craig on July 05, 2000 at 20:35:49:

Jim I’m an opportunity seeker just like you. I believe Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and the likes saw that there was opportunity and pursued it. I never said anything to the contrary. I merely said that they created no opportunity. That unless they were willing to try and allow themselves to be lucky then they would have never been successful.

They pursue good fortune just like you and I. That pursuit gives them greater odds than those those that don’t pursue it. But pursuit is no guarantee of success. I pursue things because I know that I have greater odds of getting lucky. I don’t know if I’ll succeed, I just know that the harder I try the more likely it will be. When it happens I give myself credit for having tried which is the only thing I can do. I don’t give myself credit for having succeeded. I give thanks that I got lucky. This isn’t a negative point of view and I’m not sure how people have got that impression.

I do think opportunity is limited. I know you think that is “stinkin thinkin” and all. But the other thing I’m pretty sure of is that I can take advantage of a lot of it, because I’m trying and most people aren’t. I know that because I’m looking and most people aren’t then I have a better chance of recognizing those opportunities that are so very limited to my time and place.

The basis of economic theory is that people have an unlimited number of wants, yet there are limited resources with which to fulfull those wants. Opportunity presents itself when we can find ways to devote our resources to those wants. Notice I did not say that I’ve created opportunity by finding ways to devote resources to those wants. The opportunity is only there because of the wants of other people. Those wants are a matter of circumstance themselves.

My opportunity is merely that I can offer a way to fulfill someones desires that were caused by circumstance. So in the respect to opportunities being unlimited I might say you are right as long as want is unlimited and resources are limited. Yet we never really know when circumstances will bring about the wants that make way for opportunity. We train ourselves to look for those circumstances and wants and hope that whatever resources we have can fulfill them.

Gates new that sooner or later the opportunity would present itself to benefit from what he had to offer. So he kept looking for it and was lucky that he did.
I keep looking for opportunities where I and others can benefit from what I have to offer. I consider myself very lucky when I find them.

There is no such thing as failure in luck. If I hold myself accountable for failure, it’s for not pursuing my luck as often as I should. If I have reason to feel bad it’s for not trying as hard as I’ve told myself I would. I never feel bad for not having found opportunity when I’ve tried my hardest. I feel bad for not trying, and I feel good for trying. That’s just my own philosophy and I don’t find it negative at all.

Stewardship, Abundance, revisted… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on July 03, 2000 at 12:35:35:

Ok, awhile back there was a post on the Kiyosaki’s Newsgroup about taking paper money and ripping it up. Be it a dollar, five, ten, twenty, fifty, hundred, thousand or whatever.

The point was that if you really believed in abundance and really understood that money wasnt real it was meaningless to you.

I had a friend the other day where I was explaining to him what I understand about money (so far). I handed him the dollar and he couldnt even put one little tear in that puppy. I explained to him that money isnt real and promptly ripped it into a few pieces (later taped it, used it at the tollbooth, LOl).

What I realized though is that money for him since he works for it is paramount. He couldnt let go of his feelings for it and therefore couldnt in no way be without that almighty dollar.

So where is the fine line between understanding abundance and stewardship, that money isnt real, and your time is the most important thing.

I found this hard to get across. Maybe because of the emotional ties to money my friend has.

David Alexander

Re: Stewardship, Abundance, revisted… - Posted by Craig

Posted by Craig on July 06, 2000 at 19:20:07:

I would say that time is the most important thing. I just didn’t see how your example made that point.

I might make the point by saying:

Do you see this dollar. This dollar is a representation of value. We all have things we need and want and this dollar is merely a middle man for trading one thing for another thing. It makes our lives easier by saving us a lot of time and trouble when we want to trade one thing for a different thing.

But there are ways to use this dollar just like anything else so that you can spend your time doing the things that you wouldn’t trade anything for.

Let’s say that you have a job. What you are doing is trading your time, energy, thought and experience with someone for the things you need and want in life. You’re paid in money, but the money is then used to purchase those things. Now let’s say that you save $5,000 of that money and purchase a mobile home. You then sell that mobile home for $10,000 by getting a little money down and taking the rest in monthly payments over the next 5 years. Now because you aren’t getting $10,000 worth of value right now for your own use, you’re also going to charge rent or interest on the part you have not yet received.

Now many people might tell you that the money you saved is working for you. But I would say that you worked for that money by trading your time and energy at your job for it. What you have done is hired someone to work for you. The people that bought that mobile home are now trading their time and energy in order to pay you for the use of the money you worked for, in the form of that mobile home. By figuring out a way to get someone to work for you, you have made more time available for yourself to do the things that you wouldn’t trade anything else in the world for.

There are only two ways to get the things you need and want. Spend your own time working for them, or find a way for someone else to spend their time working for them.

The money you work for and save is storing the value of your time. If you find ways to spend that stored time wisely, you can spend what time you have left doing those things that you wouldn’t trade for anything. You can use your stored time to purchase someone elses time and sell their time for more than you paid for it. The person that buys that time is devoting the difference to you in the form of money.

If they can’t give you the time they owe you now, then you can rent the time they owe you out to them and they can use their time working to pay the rent and balance in installments over a longer period of time.

I guess what’s really important is getting maximum value for time, or dollars. What’s the difference? Time is money.

Craig is right, scientifically. - Posted by Brian Mac

Posted by Brian Mac on July 06, 2000 at 24:19:45:

At any given point in time, EVERYTHING in the universe is finite(limited), though perceivably infinite(unlimited). I suppose you could even measure that by how many dollar bills you tear up just as easily as by how many breaths you take or how many times your heart beats throughout your life. Definitely finite though perceivably quite abundant when we’re young.

To me, yes MONEY is thought(concept). Currency is another matter. I’m not tearing mine up.

Brian Mac

The Point is not to be into LACK AND LIMITATION. - Posted by Soraya(SanDiego)

Posted by Soraya(SanDiego) on July 04, 2000 at 11:12:50:

Isn?t the point of all this to not be stuck in a Lack and Limitation mindset?

If you are into Lack and Limitation you sanctify money, if you KNOW that YOU create money you do not worship it.

How many times have we made a poor investment and lost a lot of money? If we spend our time dwelling on our mistakes we can not pick ourselves up and make the money again. We need to realize that WE created the money that we have and just because we lost it doesn’t mean that we can not get it back.


Re: Stewardship, Abundance, revisted… - Posted by Laure

Posted by Laure on July 04, 2000 at 07:42:50:

I see all the posts so far are from Men. We Women have no problem blowing money on absolutely NOTHIHG !!!

I have converted my mindless female spending into rehabs. See, I can now go shopping, spend as much as I want, and still win ! RE is wonderful !

Happy Shopper
Laure :wink:

Re: Stewardship, Abundance, revisted… - Posted by Craig

Posted by Craig on July 04, 2000 at 03:37:08:

When does someone really have a million dollars? Only when they have a million dollars cold hard cash. Many people may have goods and entitlements that are said to be worth a million dollars, but they don’t have a million dollars.

What if I had assets worth 1.5 million and decided to convert them to cash? Let’s just say I sold them all and netted 1 million cold hard cash in my hand. If it’s in a bank it’s really only an entitlement and I really don’t have 1 million. When I withdraw it I have converted it to cash. What if I then took that 1 million cash and stuffed in a garbage bag and set it on fire? Is it only money? Should I feel no emotion for it?

First of all the only benefit I may have gained from setting it on fire was maybe I was cold and did it to stay warm. After that, it has lost all of it’s potential of providing any benefit to myself or anyone else. What I’ve basically done is wasted that million dollars. Will I ever recoupe “that” million dollars? Nope. I may get “another” million dollars sooner or later. But that million dollars is gone for good. Not only could I have used it to purchase many things for myself, but I could have used it to somehow help provide a job or some other beneficial service to someone else. Burning it did neither.

But it was only paper right? It was paper with power and potential. It was 1 million liquid dollars. If I had bought stuff with it, there is the potential of me liquidating that stuff again and it returning to me. But now that I’ve burned it, it’s gone never to return. As long as money is circulated and is used as a measure of value it is worth something. Destroying it is not just destroying a piece of paper, it is destroying previous hard work and future potential.

That’s why people are emotional about it. Tearing up one dollar is just as much of a waste as burning one million of them.

Re: Stewardship, Abundance, revisted… - Posted by chris

Posted by chris on July 04, 2000 at 02:55:20:


I’ve got to get Kiyosaki’s books. This is way over my head. Kind of sounds like Yoda talking about the Force;-}


And it was your bill? - Posted by TRandle

Posted by TRandle on July 03, 2000 at 23:43:11:

Give me your address. I’ll drive right up and rip up all your money and I’ll bring the scotch tape. What exactly would your friend grasp by tearing your money as opposed to his own? I find it interesting that he couldn’t even do that, but I’m still curious…

Re: Stewardship, Abundance, revisted… - Posted by dew

Posted by dew on July 03, 2000 at 19:29:48:

Have others read the book! Many of his ideas are kind of abstract and not totally to be taken “word-for-word” in my opinion. People have to read his book and decide “what they get” and how they are going to apply it in their lives (depending on where they are) for themselves.

Re: Stewardship, Abundance, revisted… - Posted by Craig

Posted by Craig on July 03, 2000 at 14:24:42:

Next time you want to rip up money, why not just give it to me. No one appreciates something for nothing better than me. That’s the best deal around.

Ah but that would have been much more difficult than ripping up the money, because what people hate more than anything is seeing someone else benefit from their own work or skill. If you gave it to me I wouldn’t rip it up either. It’s value is not only in what I had to do for it, but in what it would do for me. I could be without the almighty dollar, until I need to eat, or buy medicine or something. Money is only worthless when it can’t be traded for something I want or need. If I had everything I wanted and needed I might have no use for money so maybe I’d start rolling my cigarettes with it, or build a castle out of quarters for a hobby. Until then I just can’t live without it.

Re: Stewardship, Abundance, revisted… - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on July 03, 2000 at 12:43:59:

I didn’t get it??? Maybe it’s the holiday and those rockets are just flying right over my head?? LOL

You later taped it and used it. Where is the difference between you and your friend?

Re: The Point is not to be into LACK AND LIMITATION. - Posted by Craig

Posted by Craig on July 04, 2000 at 12:03:36:

Sure that’s the point but it’s false. Money is not just created like that. I hear stories of people buying a home with no money down, or buying low and selling higher. Whatever profit is derived is not created out of thin air. It always always comes from somewhere else.

If the money was not ours to begin with, it was someone elses. Just because we didn’t have the money in the first place and now we do, does not mean that it did not come from somewhere else. Money is printed and circulated around, being traded constantly. Whenever it comes into my possession I know that it was not created out of thin air but that it was traded for something else of value.

There is a lack and limitation as far as money is concerned. A person is lacking and limited by their ability to give something else of value in order to obtain it.

As good as “life without limitations” sounds, the truth is, everyone does have limitations in their ability to do everything. A lot of what happens in life depends on luck or providence whatever we choose to call it. There are always going to be those that have more than others whether, it be money or anything else.

The thing is, if you don’t roll the dice you’re never going to know whether you could have gotten lucky. So usually those that have more are those that were willing to take a risk. And those that have less are also those that were willing to take a risk. Some just got luckier than others.

Re: Stewardship, Abundance, revisted… - Posted by Craig

Posted by Craig on July 04, 2000 at 07:29:13:

I was considering trading my home for some cash. I’ve decided instead to rent a crane and wrecking ball. I’m looking for someone to come knock it down. I want to demonstrate how my home is not real, but rather just an idea. It can always be replaced.

Re: And it was your bill? - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on July 04, 2000 at 24:12:42:

Emotional tie. People have an emotional tie to money, doesnt matter who’s it is. It is Real to them. As if that money is gone and you’ll never be able to have more.

In Fact I remember years ago I felt as if I lossed a dollar I could never replace “that dollar” and it would upset me emotionally for days. I think that mindset was from an scarcity standpoint.

David Alexander

I think you missed the point - Posted by Matt B

Posted by Matt B on July 03, 2000 at 15:48:32:

What David was trying to communicate is that money is an idea. It is not food. It is not a new car. It is not a house.

If I thought money was a house, I never would have been able to get my house, because I had no money when I got my house. It was a nothing down deal. I have done more than one of those too.

How about applying that effort that you use to work for money to work on making real estate deals happen?

Not trying to be rude here, but did that explain it any better?

Re: Stewardship, Abundance, revisted… - Posted by David Alexander

Posted by David Alexander on July 03, 2000 at 13:02:19:

Had myself wondering the same thing. Because I wasnt attached to the money emotionally I didnt have a problem ripping it, I know that it isnt real and that there is plenty out there. So, It really didnt matter to me.

On the otherhand it was there and still usable, why waste it.

David Alexander

Few are going to dispute you… - Posted by Matthew Chan

Posted by Matthew Chan on July 04, 2000 at 12:21:57:

Someone very wise once told me, “If you argue your limitations and they are yours forever.” Not too many people are going to spend the energy to talk you out of them if you feel that strongly about it.

If you choose to be a guardian of money vs. a steward of money, no one will stop you either.

Or if you believe that significant events in your life happen because of luck (good or bad), then what does that say about your own efforts? Are they not futile?

You have a rough “reality”.

Re: I think you missed the point - Posted by Craig

Posted by Craig on July 04, 2000 at 07:13:23:

By the way that same effort I might apply to work for money is used to make real estate deals happen and it’s still for money and it’s still work that just requires less physical exertion.

Re: I think you missed the point - Posted by Craig

Posted by Craig on July 03, 2000 at 23:14:57:

I know you’re not trying to be rude. I’m not so sure I missed the point. I just don’t believe money is merely an idea. It serves a purpose just like a house, or food or whatever. It functions as a medium of exchange that makes our lives much much easier.

For me it is just as much of a necessity as a house or food, because I can buy and sell that house or food or whatever much easier than if I had to rely on the trading of raw goods and services. For me tearing up a hundred dollar bill or a dollar bill is just like throwing away a nice pair of shoes or a hamburger. I would no more waste money than I would the things it could be traded for. Yes money is an idea. It’s an idea I find it difficult to live without. If our standard medium of exchange were in chickens or dirt it would be called money, and it would serve to make our lives easier.

I won’t say that I do not care about money. I care immensely about it because it performs a function that is necessary in my life.