Posted by Philip on September 07, 2003 at 10:36:52:
That is what the license bureau in my town said. Could be they don’t know, but I think it is 3 from one address. I don’t know for sure, but maybe a business entity with a different address could do 3 more before it had to become a dealer.
Philip
Starting with mobile homes in Missouri - Posted by Bob H (MO)
Posted by Bob H (MO) on September 06, 2003 at 23:37:38:
Hi, I’ve just finished reading Lonnie’s 2 books and I’ve been reading MANY articles on this site and this is my first post. I’ve noticed that there are at least a couple people on this board who are doing Lonnie deals in MO and I would like some information on getting starting in this state. I live in St.Louis so I believe I haven’t seen anyone in this region yet.
Where do I find more legal information? I did a search on google and didn’t find much info. Are there websites that I can search? What state/local department am I going to be looking for? Is it the DMV that I need to talk to in MO?
I saw a dealers license mentioned. What are the requirements for needing one of these? I’m a teacher and wouldn’t want to quit my day job but I thought I saw 3 was the limit before needing a license and I will do more than that.
Do I need a lawyer to help come up with a purchase contract, sales contract, promissory note or any other documents or is MO fairly standard for leagal wording?
Is there a limit to the amount of interest charged in MO for MHs?
Thank you for your help in pointing me in the right direction. I want to make sure I get the legalities down first before I find myself in a deal and having to stall to figure this stuff out.
Bob
Re: Starting with mobile homes in Missouri - Posted by Rod - Mo
Posted by Rod - Mo on September 07, 2003 at 17:32:01:
Bob, Philip, Marty, and anyone else who cares
As for the rules in Missouri concerning MH sales, RSMo Chapter 700 at http://www.moga.state.mo.us/STATUTES/C700.HTM spells out the laws specific to MH. Chapter 365 covers time sales, and chapter 408 covers Trade and Commerce. Much legalese, some of which doesn’t apply, some incomprehensible just so it complies with the reasonable man policy (no reasonable man shall be able to understand a thing we do.)
The limit on sales without a license includes offereing for sale any mobile home. The limit is 3 in any twelve consecutive months, so 3 in December and 3 in January would be counted as six. The registration is $200. If you get it in a corp. name, there is an additional $10 fee for a Statement of Good Standing from the Sec. of State’s office. Then there are forms that must be filled out monthly listing the units you have sold, even if none. Registrations expire on Jan 15th over every year. Annual renewal fee is currently $200. You can use a home office if you are not warehousing units on a lot, such as a display lot. You are subject to inspections of your records during normal business hours. According to the chief inspector, normal business hours are defined by the hours posted on your door. For example, he said 6 to 9 would be fine. You would get a certificate that must be prominently displayed. He also said that since I buy and sell where they sit, I probably would not get inspected. I think I am considered too small a potatoe. Certificates are managed by the Missouri Public Service Commission, web site is http://www.psc.state.mo.us/manufacturedhousing-registration.asp.
My personal preference is to use a lawyer, since I am not one, but my customized forms are still very similar to standard forms. I work on the theory that my lawyer knows what angles her contemporaries are exploiting and she will protect me from those specifically.
The way I read the usuray laws, Mo has a 10% limit, sometimes. How a court would determine the limit is based at least in part on the sale price of the unit. Much mumbo jumbo, and some categories aren’t defined, so it would be who has the better lawyer. I personally don’t charge more interest, I just raise the price. Every buyer has asked what the total price is after I quote the asked down and payment, but they usually get glassy eyes before I answer. Seems like they know they should care enough to ask, but not enough to care.
Also note: St. Loius has many exceptions in the statutes, so what is true in the rest of the state may or may not hold there. One question you may want to get answered up front is when which part of the law applies. Is it where the sale took place, where your office is, where the unit is, etc. (refer to reasonable man policy.)
Bob,
Welcome to the business.
Best of luck to all
Rod
CORRECTION! Typo in usury info - Posted by Philip
Posted by Philip on September 07, 2003 at 07:59:17:
Interest is NOT the most important part of the profit.
Sorry 'bout that. I can think a little faster than I can type!
Philip
I am in S. MO, Ryan is in your area and… - Posted by Philip
Posted by Philip on September 07, 2003 at 07:55:21:
3 is the limit without becoming a dealer but it is not very expensive, $200.00 I think. Missouri Department of Revenue handles the titles(license buruea), and gave me a number to call about getting a license.
If you want you can find some good information at the MO Secretary of State’s site about a business entity. I am working on deals # 4 and 5 and my attorney said he didnt think an entity would be terribly important yet.
Locally you need to get familiar with your county’s repo procedures, and try to make a friend or contact at your courthouse in the personal property office. Visit that dept. during slow times and ask a few pertinent questions and then they will at least know your face and what you do(like looking for owners of abandonded tax sale homes).
As far as forms, I have used either Lonnie’s or the same ones that my bank uses for a car loan. I have typed them into my computer and then altered them slightly. BUT, if you are in doubt, let an attorney look at them because mine have never been challenged…I TRY to screen very carefully to weed out troublemakers.
Someone on this board will be able to tell you about the usury laws. People charge all kinds of high interest in my area and I use 12-13% usually, even though right now folks on this forum have pointed out that you can raise your spread and use the 0% interest and make people happy and make more money yourself.
The profit is not in the interest rate so I don’t think you would need to go high enough to worry about usury. My conscience kicks in before the law does anyway…and it is the most important part of the profit on small deals anyway.
I am new, and learning. But I will give this advice. Take time building rapport with all different kinds of people. Park Managers and Owners. Sellers. Toters. Repairmen. Bankers. Investors. It is so much about people and your rapport with them. Greed won’t get you as far as listening well, and also pretending to listen well even when something doesn’t matter.
My first attempt to talk to a PM and I got a emphatic NO! But then the man, about 65, took me inside and talked to me for about 2 hours about how to do what I wanted to do. Invaluable time spent. Free education.
So, even though I got a NO!, I still used good rapport to gain ground. And he still won’t let me deal, but he will answer any question I need. In fact I have another older man the same way. He owns a 44 space park and helps me immensly.
Face to face for several weeks will gain you a TON of info and possibilities. Smile genuinly and listen.
Best of luck,
Philip
Re: I am in S. MO, Ryan is in your area and… - Posted by Marty (MO)
Posted by Marty (MO) on September 07, 2003 at 08:49:12:
Hi Philip-
My understanding was that you could do 6 deals before licensing- where did you find 3? I’ll try to get clarification.
Hi Bob-
I’m dealing in St. Charles County. I’ll be happy to show you our forms and help any way I can. I’ve only been dealing since April, but we’re knocking out one a month…
Good luck!
Marty