Should I walk away or keep throwing money away? - Posted by Nancy

Posted by nancyp on August 13, 2009 at 05:41:09:

Hi Vic:

Thanks for telling me what I thought I knew but didn’t want to face. I’ve decided that that is what I will have to do. I’m not willing to get a part-time job for something that doesn’t make sense in the long run and is only a lot of headaches and sleepless nights for me.

Thanks for listening, hearing and respoding to all my messages. I wish you all the best and really appreciate your advice.

One day, I’ll send you an update–or I may ask for more advice as the time gets closer.

And thank you to all the other wonderful people out there as well who have listened and responded to my need–you’re GREAT!

Sincerely,
Nancy

Should I walk away or keep throwing money away? - Posted by Nancy

Posted by Nancy on August 02, 2009 at 13:09:16:

I am very stressed about owning two houses that are upside down and are vacant. My accountant and two Lawyers told me to walk away. What are other people doing? I’m worried about what will happen to me if I let them go. Can anyone give me advise about what other landlords are doing?

Probably short sale is the better choice - Posted by Lubasha

Posted by Lubasha on August 04, 2009 at 08:40:43:

2 years ago I was trying to make a short sale and found a cash buyer for that property in FL but bank did not budge that time. The owner went to bankruptcy and the property is still vacant and is a whole drain in bank?s account. Since than the banks received free money from government to cover their wounds and I guess they are more flexible now.
I think you should stop payments and be aggressive in making bank to accept the short sale on your terms.

Rent them out - Posted by DJ-nyc

Posted by DJ-nyc on August 03, 2009 at 17:22:14:

By any means necessary!!! Stop the bleeding…

DJ-nyc

Re: Should I walk away? - Posted by Jack

Posted by Jack on August 03, 2009 at 11:53:51:

I am looking at a house that I want to buy, my friends think I should buy it, what you think?

Need More Info - Posted by Vic

Posted by Vic on August 02, 2009 at 14:46:53:

Nancy,

I think you need to provide more info. What area are you in? How upside down are you? Single family houses? How far behind in pmts are you? You probably get better answers with more info.

Re: Probably short sale is the better choice - Posted by nancyp

Posted by nancyp on August 04, 2009 at 18:47:16:

Hi Lubasha: Thanks for your input/suggestions. I don’t know if I’ll be able to get a short sale. If not, what will happen to me besides bad credit (which does not bother me)? That’s my biggest fear. I don’t know who to talk to about this. I would like to stop payments, but I’m afraid of what will happen to me for the rest of my life (e.g. garnish wages, take 401K, etc.) Do you happen to know anything about the repurcussions? Thanks for any input you have!

Re: Rent them out - Posted by nancyp

Posted by nancyp on August 05, 2009 at 09:25:14:

Hi DJ: Thanks for writing back. I WANT TO STOP THE BLEEDING, but I’m scared of what will happen. Have you done this before or do you know someone who has? I’m preparing to do that but I’m so confused. I appreciate your response; it’ll probably motivate me to do what needs to be done.

Re: Should I walk away? - Posted by Abdenour Achab

Posted by Abdenour Achab on August 03, 2009 at 12:00:37:

> I am looking at a house that I want to buy, my
friends think I should buy it, what you think?

Hi Jack,

I think we will be at or close (price wise) to bottom
in June 2010. So either buy it at 30% below current
value or 20% below next June value. Then have a beer
summit with your friends for thinking the right thing.

Abdenour

Re: Need More Info - Posted by nancyp

Posted by nancyp on August 03, 2009 at 19:28:55:

Hi Vic: Thanks for responding. I’m in FL. Mortgages are for $80,000 & $90,000, interest only. CMA’s are coming in around $42,000 each. They’re single-family in not the most popular neighborhoods. Prices are going down fast. I’m not behind, but I’ve spent over $50,000 in mortgage payments and repairs in the past two years. Any suggestions?

Re: Probably short sale is the better choice - Posted by Lubasha

Posted by Lubasha on August 06, 2009 at 12:40:28:

You got very detailed info about short sales from other members of forum, so it is up to you how far this way is good for you. Personally, I don?t understand why you are trying to keep on with property that sucks blood out of you 2 years; it is not helping your already troubled credit at all.
I like the answer that G.O. gave to you:
?But in any case, it’s still better to receive Form 1099-C “Cancellation of Debt” than for the bank to get a Deficiency Judgment against you. In simple terms, it’s better to owe taxes on $20K than to owe $20K :)?
If you decide to make a short sale, stop payments first. It is likely that bank will not take you seriously until you will be far behind in your payments.

Re: short sale vs foreclosure - Posted by G.O.

Posted by G.O. on August 05, 2009 at 24:04:49:

Here are the possible scenarios if you cannot rent the properties out and decide to walk away:
Foreclosure - when bank sells it at the auction (or takes it back)
Deed in lieu of foreclosure - you give the deed to the bank in order to avoid foreclosure
Short sale - when YOU sell for less than what is owed with bank agreeing to it

In ALL of these the bank can either pursue a Deficiency Judgment (for the difference. If I’m not mistaken, they’re allowed in FL) or issue a Form 1099-C “Cancellation of Debt” (which is treated as a taxable income by IRS)

The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act, to which Vic is referring, does not apply to investment property, so you will not be forgiven automatically. However, you may still be insolvent and owe nothing. You should read IRS Publication 4681 “Canceled Debts, Foreclosures, Repossessions, and Abandonments”, or better yet, and I would encourage that, talk to CPA about your situation.

But in any case, it’s still better to receive Form 1099-C “Cancellation of Debt” than for the bank to get a Deficiency Judgment against you. In simple terms, it’s better to owe taxes on $20K than to owe $20K :slight_smile:

Now, among those three scenarios, short sale is by far the best. Because you, in a sense, can control the damage and have more negotiating power, for the Deficiency, for instance.

Good luck,
G.O.

Re: Probably short sale is the better choice - Posted by Vic

Posted by Vic on August 04, 2009 at 19:43:18:

Nancy,

Here’s the repurcussions.

Shortsale: If you can get the bank to do a short sale, then probably nothing will happen to you, other than your credit being ruined for a couple of years.

It used to be that the IRS would consider the difference between what you sold the house for (short sale) & what you owe on it to be a gain & would be taxable. This however has changed. The IRS now waives those taxes. It used to be that at the time of the short sale you had to show that you were basically insolvent at the time of the short sale in order to have those taxes waived. But like I said that’s been changed.

However, I’m not 100% sure though if they treat investment property the same as if it was your primary residence. So I don’t know if they would waive the taxes that might be due on a gain like this for investment property or not. Ask your CPA. Or just call one or two out the phone book, if need be, & ask them.

Give the properties back to the bank: If you give the properties back to the bank, you can ask them if they will sign a form (I forget the name of it - in my state of LA it’s called a Dation en Payment, but it will be called something else in your state) whereby they basically agree to take the property back & not sue you for the difference. I seriously doubt they will agree to this, but it doesn’t hurt to ask.

Foreclosure: Most likely what will happen if you give the properties back to the bank or if they foreclose on you, they will then turn around & sell the properties & get whatever they can for them. They can then sue you for the difference between what what was owed on the properties, plus attorney fees & what they sold them for. This is called a Deficiency Judgement. Once they get that deficiency judgement they can then go after other assets or income that you may have. Of course, if you filed bankruptcy that would negate the judgement, but then you would have a bankruptcy on your credit. But better a bankruptcy than a judgement of that size, assuming you have no other assets or cash just sitting in the bank that they can get.

So your best course of action, in my opinion, is to 1st rent them out if you can or do a lease/purchase, 2nd do a short sale (check with your CPA if that gain would be taxable or not) 3rd, let them foreclose.

Your worse case scenario is you have to file bankruptcy to negate the deficiency judgement, but even if you do this the bankruptcy will only stay on your credit report for 7 years. Unless the Fannie Mae guidelines have recently changed (& they may have), after a foreclosure you can qualify for a bank loan after 2 years, assuming no bad debt during that time.

If they get a deficiency judgement against you, that will stay with you forever until you either pay it off or file bankruptcy.

In any event, this isn’t likely to be something that will effect you the rest of your life, other than if they get a judgement against you & you don’t do anything about it.

Don’t kill yourself over this. It’s not the end of the world. You will be able to do things in the future to get your credit back to where it is now, so don’t stress out too much over this. You’ll be fine, it just may take a couple to a few years to get back to where you are now.

If you have any more questions, feel free to post them or email me.

Best of luck.

Re: Need More Info - Posted by LightWalker

Posted by LightWalker on August 04, 2009 at 07:27:40:

Some idea’s:

  1. 1st month’s rent free
  2. No security deposit
  3. First mos. utilities free
  4. Free Laptop… (You can get good used ones for $300)

Anything that you have in your house that you don’t need, offer it… get creative…

Hang in there… Don’t give up!!!

“If I’m on the field of battle, and my enemy has chopped off my arms and my legs… then with my last breath I will dig deep within myself and spit in my enemies face!!!”

  • LightWalker

Re: Need More Info - Posted by Vic

Posted by Vic on August 03, 2009 at 22:21:13:

Wow, you’re in a tough spot. I can sympathize with you making those payments. There’s many people doing or attempting to do the same thing right now.

Can you rent them or lease/option them? If not, you could see if the bank will do a short sale. Try explaining to them that if they don’t work with you, tehy are going to get them back, so it’s in their best interest to work with you. With that said, don’t get your hopes up too high. But it’s worth a try.

Unfortunately, I think you’re best bet here is to rent them & if need be, feed them for a while & see if the mkt. improves. If it doesn’t improve then you may not have any choice but to let them go.

Have you tried renting them during the last 2 yrs.? how much did you pay for these 2 properties?

Re: Probably short sale… - Posted by nancyp

Posted by nancyp on August 06, 2009 at 20:39:52:

Hi Lubash: Thanks for writing back. I learned a lot from everyone who responded to my request. You’re confirming how I feel. I intend to stop payments; I don’t know if I’ll ever get a short sale when I can’t even get renters, so the fear is what will happen if I don’t. My biggest problem now is that I can’t get insurance unless it’s rented, so I’ll rent it month-to-month and stop the payments in about a month. I have to carry insurance on the house. Sound okay to you? Thanks again!!!

Re: short sale vs foreclosure - Posted by nancyp

Posted by nancyp on August 05, 2009 at 05:43:34:

Thanks for the info G.O. I have to run now but may ask you a few more questions tonight–if you don’t mind. Thanks again!

Re: short sale vs foreclosure - Posted by Vic

Posted by Vic on August 05, 2009 at 01:07:49:

Thanks for clarifying the cancellation of debt on investment properties. You make some valid points here, except if the bank accepts a short sale, I don’t think they can pursue a deficiency judgement because they are voluntarily agreeing to take a reduced payoff for the note. Maybe I’m wrong on this.

They might ask you to sign a note or something whereby you agree to pay the shortage & then if you don’t pay it, they’ll sue you on that note. But that would not be a deficiency judgement, it would be like a credit card judgement.

In any event if you can get the bank to do a short sale, try to get something from them in writing saying that they won’t sue you for the difference. If they won’t do it, then you may be stuck & will have to do something to address that judgement at some point - either pay it off, settle it for a lesser amt. or file bankruptcy or do nothing & let it sit on your credit report forever.

Your wages cannot be garnished until they have some type of judgement against you, so you have a little time to try to figure out what to do if you decide to let them foreclose.

Re: short sale vs foreclosure - Posted by G.O.

Posted by G.O. on August 05, 2009 at 24:16:19:

Forgot to add:
short sale is also better, much better, for your credit record and your future borrowing ability. Even the recent changes in Fannie Mae rules almost “encourage” to pursue a short sale on your property rather than let it go into foreclosure.

G.O.

Re: Probably short sale is the better choice - Posted by nancyp

Posted by nancyp on August 05, 2009 at 05:36:38:

Good Morning Vic: I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to respond and for sharing your invaluable knowledge on the subject. I am stressing so much, I haven’t slept in literally two years (wish I couldn’t eat) and it’s on my mind 24/7. It’s just the fear of the unknown, and you have given me some answers to think about. Since I’m having a hard time renting the 2nd one (I even posted Section 8 with no responses), I may have to try step 2–short sale. I really don’t think this will happen, but I will certainly try. One thing about Short Sales–do I contact the bank first to see if they’ll agree? A Lawyer I went to wants $6500 to represent me and only says I have a 50/50 chance of coming out ok. That didn’t sound like good enough odds for me to move forward. I guess I’ll just have to take my chances–my biggest fear is being sued for $170,000 for the rest of my life. But, like you said, bankruptcy would wipe that out. Again, thank you so much for giving me some answers to consider as I move forward. I feel so alone here because I never thought I would get to this point in my life, but I know I’m not alone. I’ve never gone into a Chat Room before, so I don’t know if other people are reading this as well. If so, thank you to everyone who responded; I really appreciate your advice.

You told me I could either respond or e-mail you, could you please tell me how to e-mail you since I believe this is a public response in the Chat Room. I have one terribly important question that I’d rather keep private. Thanks again for everything!!!