rented to one family, now there's two living ... - Posted by Corine

Real Estate Investing Real Estate Financing
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Posted by Rich-CA on August 01, 2008 at 16:50:44:

There is no problem if the terms and conditions change requiring a new lease because there are new adults living in the property. Heck, you could even raise the rent. Its not like they don’t have to option of being evicted if the people stay otherwise as the existing lease would allow. As long as you stay below the max deposit limit the state allows (and its different in each state, for example in TX there is no effective upper limit, but in CA its 2 months rent if there are no pets).

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rented to one family, now there’s two living … - Posted by Corine

Posted by Corine on July 30, 2008 at 18:59:06:

Hey guys. Had a family move into one of my homes last weekend. Nice family, three kids from NH.

Well, called today to see about putting the screens back in as I wanted to power wash. Wife said she no longer loved her drunk a-- controlling husband and was leaving him after two years.

She asked if her best friend could move in. No. Then I though about it all day, and thought if it’s one adult, what can it hurt. So I called her and left a message earlier in day.

She called me this evening saying it was a family, husband, wife, 2 year old and a 14 year old. Apparently they came down on the heels of the family whom I leased to. They’re moving down here, looking for jobs to relocate here.

I asked what his job prospects are. He’s looking for anything, landscaping…etc. They have only the money the came down here with.

I want them out. I rented to one what I though was a nice tight family. Now I have eight people living in an 1800 square foot house.

Spoke with the dud that got kicked to the curb. He wants off the lease. Fine. I plan to rewrite her lease in the morning.

Here’s the Q: And she reminded me of this as well. No guests beyond thirty days. I can hold her to that, but how do you check and make sure they stay gone. And what’s to stop them from leaving for a few days and coming back for another 30 days stay.

In her lease tomorrow, her friends have to the 3rd week in August to get out or she’s receiving an eviction notice.

If I serve her with eviction and they leave, can I still go through with the eviction. Unlike the three day notice to pay rent or quit?

Please advise.

All the background check in the world could not have helped me to avoid this situation.

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Re: rented to one family, now there’s two - Posted by Sailor

Posted by Sailor on July 30, 2008 at 22:33:26:

Resolution depends on the state & your rental agreement. I recommend you amend your RA’s to shorten the guest time (I use 7 days). In my state I can give unconditional notice to quit if there are unapproved tenants, & I do. Because I am on the lookout, I often find unapproved tenants (the economy doesn’t help) & act quickly & firmly.

How do I check? I drive by early & late, checking vehicles. I ask neighbors who love to snitch. I do “safety checks” where I walk through the house, noticing the number of beds & the amount of clothes lying around. Also watch the water bill.

I’ve found that most of my tenant problems occur whenever I have somehow left a loophole, which tenants take great glee in discovering. Every time I write up an agreement I make it tighter. Okaying a roommate w/out an approved application gave your tenant an opening. The thing about landlording is that we have to be strict about following our own rules if we expect to ever train our tenants to follow them, too.

Tye

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Re: rented to one family - Posted by Beachbum

Posted by Beachbum on July 30, 2008 at 20:19:35:

Wow, you are a glutton for punishment. Do you lay awake at night thinking up ways to create this drama?

Seriously- DO NOT RE-WRITE THE LEASE! Make it clear to both that you rented to them and they will BOTH remain responsible for ALL the terms and conditions of the original agreement. Additional or unapproved (READ: no completed application, no references, no visible means of support) occupants will constitute a brach of the contract and you will initiate eviction proceedings (as allowed by local laws), which will reflect on BOTH original parties. Advise them that you MAY, out of the goodness of your heart, consider returning all of their security deposit if they get out within 7 days and leave everything exactly as when they moved in.

DO NOT MAKE THEIR DRAMA, YOUR DRAMA.

You will still be out advertising and re-renting expenses, but by the sound of it I would want this group in the next county!

Good Luck…

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I agree - Posted by Rich-CA

Posted by Rich-CA on July 31, 2008 at 21:56:19:

I also require we have the SSN and do a credit/background check on each adult who lives there. “Living there” is defined as staying the night more than 14 days total during the lease period (prevents those 5 days in, 2 days out, 5 days back in claims).

I also adhere to the HUD guidelines of 2 persons per bedroom plus one infant in the parent’s bedroom.

If too many people, or even any person whose SSN and background check release we don’t have is found there, they are evicted.

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the deed is done - Posted by Corine

Posted by Corine on July 31, 2008 at 06:36:46:

Spoke with an atty. this morning.

Called the husband and told him I was evicting if they were not out in 7 days and that he would have an eviction trailing him.

Just walked over to the property and had the same conversation with the woman. She said she would be out in 7 days.

Now I’m putting it all in writing, certified, return receipt and posting it on the door.

Thank you for your excellent advice.

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Re: rented to one family - Posted by Corine

Posted by Corine on July 31, 2008 at 05:47:19:

Re: Laying awake at night dreaming this stuff up. That’s very funny. Unfortunately, this all comes quite naturally to me. You wouldn’t be the first to accuse me of being addicted to drama.

I’m not messing around with this situation. I’m going to see an atty. this morning. I want the whole lot of them OUT!

She doesn’t have a copy of the lease, therefore does not have my account into for direct deposit. Her rent is due on the third, late on the 4th.

I spoke with the husband this morning, very firm. Told him that if they were out in 7 days, with the property returned to the condition I turned it over to them that I would return their deposit.

I told him he was in breach of the contract, that I had this transient family living there, now 8 people, three adults and 5 children. Makes me crazy thinking about it. I want them gone. Husband asked why I assumend they weren’t guests. I hate being taken for an idiot. Because, yesterday she asked me if they could move in. She said they were here looking for jobs and moving down here. They have no money other…

I’m off to the attorneys…

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Re: rented to one family - Posted by Corine

Posted by Corine on July 31, 2008 at 04:26:31:

I know. Please, don’t rub it in, and thanks for the advice. I will follow it to the letter.

I’ll just tell her that I’ve had time to consult with my atty. and this is what he recommends.

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Re: I agree - Posted by Corine

Posted by Corine on August 01, 2008 at 04:57:51:

Thanks Rich…for always being sincerely helpful. I addressed the situation immediately yesterday as soon as I caught wind this had happened.

I checked these folks, nice happy family, three little girls. How could you possibly foresee something like this?

I did speak with my atty. here but resolved the situation first. They have agreed to vacate on or before August 7 and I will return their deposit in full. Itâ??s a detour, but not that dramatic in the big scheme of things. I remember posting about this some time back regarding the rental pool around here. We get a lot of transient people in search of a new life. It can be a crap shoot. But, like Natalie says, she holds out as long as it takes to be completely sure sheâ??s got the right people. I was a bit duped by the husband. Very very sweet.

I always like leasing to families assuming there’s continuity there. I didn’t expect her to leave her husband two days after they moved in. Apparently, they were having troubles and thought a move would make things different.

There’s no question for this on any of my applications.

And to those, whom I have come to view as “gnats”. You have nothing intelligent to say, so why bother.

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Good Job!! - Posted by brandoncbsre

Posted by brandoncbsre on July 31, 2008 at 09:30:51:

nm

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Re: the deed is done - Posted by Beachbum

Posted by Beachbum on July 31, 2008 at 09:23:08:

Congrats…now stick to your guns!

The LL/Tenant relationship is CONTRACTUAL in nature, and further controlled by local LL/Tenant laws. YOU are the one in control. It’s YOUR ballgame, Your ball. It’s Business…not personal. Keep it that way, ALWAYS. It is a two way street, so be sure to uphold YOUR responsibilities as well…

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Sometimes its duped, somethimes its not - Posted by Rich-CA

Posted by Rich-CA on August 01, 2008 at 13:02:53:

In your case I would say that the conflicting stories (she asked if they could move in and he asked why you assumed they had) is a dead give away. One of the reasons I listen to those I do business with (including vendors, PMs and tenants) because they reveal clues about what is going on that you can’t get by asking. Sometimes its because they don’t know themselves, other times they do know but fear your reaction. For example a PM I fired last year had licensing problems and was commiserating on IRS problems. Why did I switch? Because the business was likely to crash and burn soon and I wanted all of my eggs out of the basket before it did. As problems mount, the pressure to compromise and cut corners increases.

I had one tenant who was good for over a year. Well, except for that time he got shot in his garage. But the police verified his story was true, so we went with it. After his live in left with the kid, the rent got a little harder to make and he fell further and further behind until we had to evict him. He was a very nice guy. But it took two incomes to live their lifestyle and alone, neither was enough.

So in this case, perhaps they were headed towards financial trouble and this additional income was their answer. Or, perhaps, they lost their home to foreclosure and needed a place to stay a while (it would be surprising how many landlords will not rent to the foreclosed except that the issues that get someone into foreclosure are likely to negatively impact the rent and the condition of the property). Who knows.

Personally, I would have demanded copies of their driver’s licenses, SSNs, and release forms for the interlopers. If they were under the 2 person per bedroom count, I would consider bringing them on to the lease. Its better to have 4 people to go after in case of problems than 2. I would have asked for an increased deposit because that many people wears a house more. The alternative would be for them all to leave. I personally will work with people who have difficulties as long as everyone stays above board with it. I will also make sure my assets are protected. I aim for the “tough but fair and compassionate” target. Don’t always make it, but I think its a worthy target.

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Re: the deed is done - Posted by corine

Posted by corine on July 31, 2008 at 10:24:13:

Absolutely. I’ve learned my lesson this time. This is an upscale, gated community.

They are gone! Just came back from the post office and everything is legal, so if on day 7 they’re not out, I’m down at the courthouse and haven’t missed a beat.

Thanks again…you saved my a–.

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Re: Sometimes its duped, somethimes its not - Posted by Corine

Posted by Corine on August 02, 2008 at 04:09:12:

Thanks again Rick for your thoughtful response. I actually like leasing to people whom have just lost their homes to foreclosure. They won’t be purchasing anytime soon. And like you said, there are circumstances, ie. medical that can put people under.

This recent derailment was a complete surprise, and I’m choosing the path of least resistance and that’s to have them leave by the 7th. If you’ve read my posts, which you do, you know I work with people all the time. ie. the one I fondly call my dead beat. He’s always late but he has heart, and I’m always paid. I did a walk through last week after his being there 2.5 years. They take good care of the house.

I would normally like to work with people like this, but am offended frankly that this other family was there less than two days after they moved in. It had been planned all along. I spoke to the wife for quite a while two nights ago and extracted more information than I want to know.

Let’s just say they don’t belong in this neighborhood. Why do I say that? We have an HOA, it’s a beautiful community. Their garbage can was left on the sidewalk all week long. The last day, all their s---- was flowing over with the the lid open, and it was raining.

Their too stupid to get out of the rain.

This will be re-rented very soon. Had a nurse call on it and is looking at it this morning. Not that house, I live down the street in the exact same model.

I just have to stop thinking that everyone is like me. I just don’t know anyone with a family of 5 that move’s in another family of 4. The husband didn’t want them there, and as he says, lost that battle.

They need to go back to their double wide.

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Re: Sometimes its duped, somethimes its not - Posted by Beachbum

Posted by Beachbum on August 01, 2008 at 14:47:23:

As an fyi, regarding your comment about increasing the deposit- that’s a big no-no and will land you in Fair Housing hot water.