Rehabbing - Roof and Siding Questions - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on July 27, 2001 at 16:06:15:


Rehabbing - Roof and Siding Questions - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on July 25, 2001 at 06:42:52:

Hi again everyone:

I finally interviewed a number of realtors and contractors on the house I was planning to rehab and sell mentioned earlier.

One question the is roof. I owned the property since 1984 and I was told the roof is old back then. Some advised me to spend money on the roof instead of the siding, which was the original plan.

There’s already two roofs on this house built in 1951. Some suggested putting the new one over those two for a $2,100- and its legal. Some suggested its time to remove the other two roofs, check and fix what’s underneath for $4,500.

These people advise that the old roof is quite obvious and buyers and home inspectors will pick on it.

They also say three roofs may be a bit heavy for the framing. They suggested an “architectural roof” instead of the plain one. Half the houses are plain - and the other has the slightly more expensvie two shaded roof.

Then there’s the siding. I was going to replace it for $5,000. But those suggesting I spend the money on the roof intead said painting over the siding is just as good. The house right across the street had painted siding and looked pretty clean. They’ll also power clean the aluminum sided soffits

One contractor suggested spending the money on siding instead since painted sidings last only a few years.

My budget on this is 10K or less, so I’ll either do the roof and paint the siding, or do the siding and leave the roof alone. The rehab will increase the value by 20K and move it faster. Doing everything will run 15K and not as financially rewarding.

So the questions are:

1- Do you vote for new siding or new roof?

2- Should I spend $2,100 to cover the old roof, or $4,500 to do the complete job.

3- Any major issues in painting over aluminum siding. Currently its a dirty blue - and I’m told a light gray will cover it very nicely. The one across the street is white covering the original light green, and looked nice from a distance.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Frank Chin

Add Value - Never Repair - Posted by Lor

Posted by Lor on July 26, 2001 at 13:31:45:

This phrase is my bible. The roof is old but it’s working isn’t it? The only time I ever repaired (replaced a roof) was when it was leaking all over so not only did I replace it - I made it into a deck so there was now an ocean view - I added value. Just paint the siding. You said earlier you were in a hot market. How hot? My definition of a hot market is where I live now - where multiple offers come in on houses and the sales price is almost always higher than the asking price. Paint it this weekend and put it on the market Monday. August already, it’s getting late!

Basic Question…what is Architechural Roofing? - Posted by Glenn(okla)

Posted by Glenn(okla) on July 25, 2001 at 17:37:13:

is that still an asphalt comp shingle?

please forgive a newbies ignorance…I just have never heard the term.


Re: Rehabbing - Roof and Siding Questions - Posted by DanT

Posted by DanT on July 25, 2001 at 11:10:04:

I have done all of the above. My votes are;

  1. Roof- Tear it off and replace only damaged sheathing. Replace shingles with architectural or dimensional (what they call them here) shingles. These shingles are great on an old house as the mask the imperfections of the older sheathing. I have put a third layer on before but only to get by until money became available to strip it off. Besides I think the investment will give full value return in this situation.
  2. Siding- Unlike Tom I have seen aluminum siding that is faded and looks terrible. And I have painted it with great success. Power wash it, paint it with a top quality latex paint mixed with Emulsa-bond. This is a paint addative that acts as a hardner and glue so the paint will stick to smooth surfaces. Great stuff and not that expensive. It won’t take much paint anyway as paint really flows on aluminum. I typically get 10 years out of a paint job on aluminum and it still doesn’t look horrible, just starts chalking some.
  3. Color- Anything I change the color to gets light gray and white, with light gray shingles. Nice crisp look, always use black script numbers for the house numbers too.
    Should be able to do the above and cap the trim with aluminum for 10k at the prices you have quoted. Just my opinion. DanT

put an all new roof & paint the siding - Posted by Gursel(NJ)

Posted by Gursel(NJ) on July 25, 2001 at 09:53:20:

Hi Frank:

Three layers of roofing is not only dangerous but illegal here in NJ. Remember the collapsed roofs from the unusually heavy snow some years back?

Remove the old roof and reroof with architectural shingles. They are about $10 more per square (100 square feet) and well worth the money if the shingles are visible from the street.

Coordinate the colors and paint the siding. You will achieve excellent curb appeal.

Good Luck
Gursel Demir

Re: Rehabbing - Roof and Siding Questions - Posted by BR

Posted by BR on July 25, 2001 at 08:23:39:

If you are planning to retail the house, the roof must be insurable. The buyers insurance agent will inspect the roof and determine if it needs to be replaced before insurance can be issued. If it needs a roof, do a tear off. The weight factor IS an issue and a third layer looks like crap. When you tear off the roof, get on the roof yourself and inspect the decking. Don’t rely on the roofers opinion, trust me on this one. If the siding is starting to oxidize as they tend to do after 10-12 years, I would consider painting before replacing it. If you paint it, be surt to power wash it good before painting.

Re: Rehabbing - Roof and Siding Questions - Posted by Tom – IN

Posted by Tom – IN on July 25, 2001 at 07:58:58:

I only do complete roofs. Most of my building are so old that I don’t trust the decking under the shingles, not to mention the weight factor.

And I cannot imagine why anyone would spend the money to put aluminum or vinyl siding on a house, and then paint it.

Issues in Hot Market Selling - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on July 27, 2001 at 07:26:18:

Hi Lor:

There’s much discussion on the board on BUYING in seller markets - but not SELLING in them. Apparently you and I are.

I closed one sale this April. When I placed that property on the market, I was advised by several brokers I approached that they each had from 5 to 10 buyers. The problem is finding sellers willing to sell. As I mentioned, the property was sold in ONE day.

Consequently, several brokers did it as an open listing, whereby they DID NOT require me to sign a listng agreement. In fact, they acted more like buyer brokers even though I paid the commission. They simply bought their buyers to see the property to make an offer.

The successful broker took a flat 15K commission to seal the deal on the 450K sale the first day of the showing. When another broker was told the next day an offer was received, he asked that we hold off so his client can beat the offer. Now, I think this situation qualifies as a HOT market.

The interesting thing here is we did not really talk about broker commission till we got the buyer, and the broker commission is part of the negotiations. It was like, “why don’t you show this to your buyer, have him make an offer, and if I like your commission, I’ll sell it.”

Now for the one I’m currently selling.

I decided to list the property with a local Century 21 yesterday even before starting work. Already lost too much time with a busy contractor. Had a meeting with the broker and the our sales person. Apparently, open listngs are not that common here.

The broker suggested that we hold off hiring contractors to do repairs. Our property, while worn on the outside, outshines others on the inside with an asking price of 249K. In fact, its larger and in much better condition on the inside compared to another one just listed for 249K. He mentioned the selling point is the town and the school system rather than the age of the roof.

While another broker suggested lisitng at 269K, I had to agree with this broker that as a starter home, the higher price may not appraise if buyers go the VA and FHA route. They’re certain 249K will given comps.

And because I bought the property at only 80K, I thought I might as well get an easy 249K rather than to struggle for 269K. The key to making money is buying right. Right?

They will hold a “broker showing” to get opinion on the price and need for repairs. They feel that under current market conditions, rehabbning may not be really necessary.

This broker only showing is planned for tommorrow, Saturday. The wife and I will paint a really worn garage door later today. The plan is to decide next week if a rehab is really needed after the initial showing.

Another point mentioned is that if any repairs are needed, why not wait for what FHA requires and do just that, that’s assuming the buyer goes the FHA route.

Any more light you can shed on HOT MARKET selling will be appreciated.


Frank Chin

Re: what is Architechural Roofing? - Posted by Dan

Posted by Dan on July 25, 2001 at 20:43:03:

They are generally a fiberglass shingle cut in a pattern to resemble a cedar shake style roof. They are faster to put on as they don’t have to be matched at the end of the shingle rows. DanT

Thanks for the useful info … - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on July 27, 2001 at 16:22:13:

Hi Dan:

Your recommendations match those of most RE pros.

Contractors on the other hand seem to recommend approachs that match their crew size and skill limitations, not always the best solution.

Frank Chin

Re: Issues in Hot Market Selling - Posted by Ronald * Starr

Posted by Ronald * Starr on July 27, 2001 at 14:24:21:

Frank Chin------

If you do paint the siding, I concur with an earlier post, you will not need much paint on aluminum siding. A few months ago I painted a 1200 square foot house with mostly aluminum siding. I bought two ten gallon buckets, which is what I usually do with wood sided houses. I used about three gallons total.

I guess I will have to buy another house so I can use up the left-over paint.

Good Investing*********Ron Starr************

Re: Issues in Hot Market Selling - Posted by Lor

Posted by Lor on July 27, 2001 at 12:58:07:

Hi Frank, the only comment I have about hot markets is that they can turn cold really quick! From what I’ve seen in Silicon Valley, a matter of weeks. The only reason I’m still in a hot market is that I’m located in a rural coastal area within driving distance of Silicon Valley that has just been “discovered”. In our area realtors do not set high sales prices in a hot market. What is common is to set a reasonable price, have your realtor showing, then say that you will not accept offers until a preset date - say two weeks from the day of listing. This supposedly creates excitement and often brings in multiple listings and offers over the asking price.

I can’t stress enough the importance of freshening up the front of the house. Clean the windows inside and out, paint your garage door and put a pot of blooming flowers by the front door. I am about to put a very difficult house right now, dry rot etc. but my Remax agent keeps emphasizing that when buyers in this market walk up to the front door and into the house they will make up their mind to purchase within minutes. Then, you tell them about the roof and problems but it won’t matter - they have already made up their mind. He says paint the trim around the front door and paint the front door.

One more thing, people might assume that in a hot market - why not just sell the house FSBO. But in my area the opposite is true. Practically everyone uses a realtor. In a hot market houses are sold “as is” people rarely make repairs, so even though you legally must disclose problems you need the protection of a realty company for any “discoveries” the buyer might find down the road.

Re: what is Architechural Roofing? - Posted by Glenn(okla)

Posted by Glenn(okla) on July 26, 2001 at 17:50:51:

Okay…I have seen those and they are quickly getting popular here…They look classy too…IMO

thanks for the answer:)


Funny thing happned while painting Garage Door - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on July 27, 2001 at 16:12:23:

Hi Ron:

I finally scrapped and painted a worn garage door mentioned earlier, and went on to paint a few window frames while I’m at it. What a difference.

Then a curious neighbor came by after I packed up my paint gear and commended me for doing such a good job on the siding.

Now I’m wondering.

Frank Chin

PS - Glad to see you back after a brief absence.