Pac Trust vs. Bronchick = Confusion...HELP! - Posted by Armando Verea

Posted by ken in sc on November 13, 2001 at 07:28:16:

Having never used a PACTrust, I cannot comment on them specifically. However, having read the debate between the Bill’s on it I totally understand why you are confused and scared of being in a business where it may not be legitimate. You seem to be an honest person who wants to make sure you can stay that way in REI.

The answer is yes! There are many creative ways to make money in REI. The “subject to” method being discussed in the long Bill’s war is just one way. I have done it a couple times basically the Bronchick Way, and because I and my lawyer explained the consequences to the seller, I felt OK about it. But, like you, it is not the main way I want to do business. You already mentioned being a problem solver, and wanting to do rehabs or flip to rehabbers. All those can be done very ethically while still making a profit. With your honesty you will likely have a good chance of being able to raise private money as well.

There is much you can do and still sleep well at night. This is not to say that those persuing the “subject to” method are dishonest (I definently don’t think that!), but if YOU would not sleep well using those methods, then don’t use them. Try reading all posts in the Archives with the word “Merle” in them. There you will find someone who is a honest as the day is long, helps people, and yet makes a great living.

Keep looking for your niche - it is there for you.


Pac Trust vs. Bronchick = Confusion…HELP! - Posted by Armando Verea

Posted by Armando Verea on November 12, 2001 at 22:41:09:

Dear Creonline members:
I must confess the reading of dozens of posts by Mr.Gatten and Mr. Bronchick regarding Land Trusts, PactTrust etc. has left this newbie not only confused but wondering if there is a way to do REI that does not compromise or involves camouflaging ones intention in a real estate deal. What do the gurus mean by Creative Real Estate Investing? Please help me see the light! I am interested in the challenge of problem solving in REI as a means to a decent living and future wealth through passive income. Yet it seems to me that the people who I am suppose to trust and respect for their knowledge and intentions to help others, have perhaps,revealed to all of us their true colors. Now, I am not sure who is right or who speaks truthfully,but what I do recognize is that I need to question the established authority and find what works for me. This does not exclude listening to others…please share your thoughts. I will be doing flips and some rehabs at the beginning.

Re: Pac Trust vs. Bronchick = Confusion…HELP! - Posted by bill gatten

Posted by bill gatten on November 14, 2001 at 17:28:20:


I’ve let your post ride for a while before jumping in. I don’t want to start another fiasco with anyone. The last few were confusing to me too. I’m sure Bill Bronchik will agree with me on this one point: neither of us wanted to create doubt or confusion relative to creative real estate financing in general?just each other?s points of view.

Bill is an attorney, and I’m sure a good one. I am not an attorney and have to hire attorneys to support all that I do an say. Just rest assured that neither Bill B. nor myself would have been in this business as long as we have, if either of ideas and programs were fraught with dangers. We both have endeavored to create a product with the utmost safety and benefit. And in my case, one that is truly unique, and not the ?same? as everybody else?s.

You probably noted that 90% of the entire debacle that occurred recently re. the PACTrust was based on pure speculation and conjecture on everybody’s behalf (what a court ?might? do, ?could? do, ?has never done, but.? All of these conjectures can be made about anything that has to do with the IRS, but until it happens, why exert all of one?s efforts in arguing a case that hasn?t happened?

Ultimately what it all boils down to is: Is the PACTrust concept any better than anything else out there. I say “YES (with all caps).” Bill says “no.” But do bear in mind that the PACTrust is MY whole life…I don’t have a law practice, a title company, best selling books endorsed by Robert Bruss or a million bucks to lay back on if things get tough. I have a great idea that has saved the buns of thousands of super-satisfied clients?so far?and it will continue doing so. In my mind, and in the minds, of our thousands of clients, brokers, escrow companies, titles companies and our four attorneys…it is the best thing anyone has come up with yet in the creative real estate acquisition business.

Like everything else, the PACTrust is not perfect…it has many of the same flaws as does any other creative financing systems…its just that the PACTrust tends to greatly minimizes all of the flaws than it doesn?t eliminate completely. That’s the reason it was created…to protect ME from the hazards, risks and downsides of my own creative real estate financing deals. Shortly after that it became my passion, my hobby, my avocation, my vocation and my quest (as it were). If someone needs what it offers?that?s great. If they are happy with what they?re already doing?that?s great too. My function in our workshops and seminars is to teach creative financing, not the PACTrust?we just happen to ?feature? the PACTrust and thinks it?s the best option.

I have done leases, lease options, equity shares (100’s of them) and contracts for deed. And in all of them I knew there had to be a better way, and proceeded (with some help) to create that better way, and am VERY happy with the results of that effort.

Don?t be confused?just take the path of least resistance and acquire as much as you can with any system that works for you.


Bill Gatten

Check out the PACTrust workshop in Salt Lake this weekend if you want to get it from the horse?s mouth (SLC Airport Holiday Inn). And Bronchik goes: ??try donkey?s mouth!? :0)

Re: Pac Trust vs. Bronchick = Confusion…HELP! - Posted by dewCO

Posted by dewCO on November 13, 2001 at 15:55:38:

They all have their own opinion. I don’t think any one is hiding or camouflaging anything. It’ssall in how YOU want to proceed and conduct YOUR business. Gatten and Bronchick will probably never agree–so it’s YOUR choice.

Re: Pac Trust vs. Bronchick = Confusion…HELP! - Posted by Thomas K. Standen

Posted by Thomas K. Standen on November 13, 2001 at 12:10:43:

Concerning confusion over the two Bill’s - my suggestion to you would be to communicate with each of the Bill’s.

Pose your concerns, allow them to explain the position they have taken and then make your own judgement of which you wish to accept.

No matter what you are told by either of them, be sure you do you own diligence to determine the correctness of the information.

Both of the Bill’s are very well versed in the subject they are teaching, don’t just discard them because of confusion.

Have found over the years when there is a discussion such as the Bill’s have had, there are nuggets of good ideas that can be turned in profit centers if you just open your mind and not have it locked up. Not saying you have locked up your mind, just suggesting you take advantage of this situation.

Thomas K. Standen
North American Loan Servicing