"NO Money Down" (a joke for you) - Posted by Tom (NC)

Posted by Matthew Chan on November 09, 1998 at 18:51:48:

It is refreshing to hear your points. I especially like the part of university professors. Many have no practical experience and probably would have a tough time surviving in the “real world”. I had some that I respected but many I didn’t unless they had some industry experience. The ones that really were annoying were the ones that had a condescending attitude.

I did ok throught college and the MBA program but now I am in a position to do something about it, I know what worked and what didnt.

“NO Money Down” (a joke for you) - Posted by Tom (NC)

Posted by Tom (NC) on November 05, 1998 at 12:18:56:

OK…Let me preface this post with the following: I have had the C Sheets course for just over two weeks now, I am reading it, scouring the classifieds, driving the neighborhoods, dreaming, etc. That being said…

I have figured out how all of the “gurus” are doing no-money down deals (remember Sheets and everyone else says as long as you don’t use your own money it is a “no-money down” deal): They all use the money we spend on their courses!!!

So…please take this post with the grain of salt it is presented with!!!

Re: “NO Money Down” (a joke for you) - Posted by emmbee

Posted by emmbee on November 06, 1998 at 10:24:17:

Just remember this: the person who makes the first million is the one who convinces others how to make theirs. Sheets and others like him are making millions of dollars by pyramiding and teaching others how to do the same. This is an ancient sales technique, the grandaddy of them all, in fact. It’s no wonder that the seminar and continuing education industry is a $25 billion a year business. It’s staggering! In other words, if you want to make a million dollars then write a book on how to make a million dollars then get other people’s money to market the information, and then get thousands of enthusiastic and unwary people to buy it from you. As P.T. Barnum said “there’s a fool (sorry, webmaster won’t let me quote real word) born every minute.” Cynical as it may sound, nothing has changed from the time he said it nearly one century ago. Can money be made in creative real estate? I don’t know. But I believe more of it can be made if you find a niche and are able to package and sell a course for $179.95, and then get millions of financial freedom seeking individuals like us to race to the telephone, credit card in hand, to buy it! If this were not the case then why are there so many of us in the chat and e mail discussion groups such as these, asking others, “did you make it yet?” If I did and you did, there would probably be no need for us to be here or for this forum to exist in the first place. Think about it! Good luck, and let me know if in fact you do make your first mil in real estate. For my own curiosity, I’d like to meet someone other than Carleton who has actually done this. Everyone who I’ve ever met in real estate has told me what a pain in the neck tenants and property management are, and how deterioration and depreciation are draining all their profits into the alligator’s mouth. Just once I’d like someone to prove me and them wrong! In the meantime, I’ll return to my dead-end, low-paying, unsecure job, like so many millions of other frustrated, gold-seeking Americans. Best wishes!!

Be critical not foolish - Posted by HR

Posted by HR on November 08, 1998 at 15:41:29:


You are exercising excellent critical thinking skills to pick up that there are a lot of con-artist sales folk out there that make big bucks selling info about re instead of selling re. You are right. And that’s because you can’t “learn” creative re investing anywhere except from the small, underground niche market of folks who know about it and write books, programs, and seminars to teach it. Did you learn about it, for instance, in high school, college, or graduate school? Can you get a B.A. or M.B.A. in Creative Real Estate Investing? Neither did we nor can we.

Still, there are some major flaws in your thinking. Allow me, if you will, to challenge you. You are obviously smart. When you apply your good critical thinking skills to your cognitive errors, you will see your folly, and your attitude may even change. Perhaps you will even decide to take action. And if you take right action with right knowledge followed wisely and persistently, perhaps you will even become wealthy.

Folly #1: Just because I’m unfamiliar with it, it must not be possible. See how silly this is? Because you are unfamiliar with it, all that means is you are unfamiliar with it. That’s it. Antidote: gain as much knowledge as you can to make an informed decision. Start with reading everthing on this site and others and with inexpensive books. I just finished reading Bob Allen’s Creating Wealth ($12); you should read this. I would also recommend Investing in Real Estate, second ed. by McLean and Eldred ($20) for a good textbook overview of the field. Both won’t give you enough to get started, but they will show you how it can be done. To really get started, you should buy some of the more expensive seminars ($100-200) of the pros (like those on this site and CS). I personally recommend staying away from the expensive, traveling shows; they are way overvalued and your money is better spent on specialized books and seminars.

Folly#2: Because I don’t know anyone that has done it, it must not be possible. Emmbee: do you know any millionaires? So you are telling me that millionaires do exist, and you trust that they exist, but you still don’t know any? Why aren’t you being very consistent? Antidote: Reach beyond your limitations. Want to meet some re millionaires? Join your local Real Estate Investment Group (reia); look in the phone book. That’s where you will meet some serious flesh and blood players.

That old saying is soooo true: if you keep on doin’ what you’ve always done, you’ll keep on gettin’ what you’ve always gotten. If all you know are people who, after working a job faithfully all their life, have never achieved wealth (or at least comfort AND financial security) then I suggest you challenge THAT paradigm of YOURS. They have nothing to teach you financially, other than what does not work. Read the books of the self-made. You will find they really do live in a different universe than most–not because they were born with a silver spoon, but because they know how money works and how to make money. It’s all about knowledge and attitude. Read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Kiyosaki and Keep your hard earned money by Fellman while you are at it.

Folly #3: Because there are cons, the whole field is corrupt. No; the waters are shark infested by cons, to be sure; but there is sunken treasure lying all around you. As you gain more knowledge, your ability to separate the hard sell and those taking advantage from the REAL experts gets better and better. Don’t be a fool and throw the baby out with the bath water.

I’ll give you a personal example. Over two years ago, my wife and I decided to buy our first house. We knew the neighborhood we wanted to buy in, and we began to drive around on Sundays (and then Saturdays, too) looking for our dream house. We were saddened by what we found. We coulden’t afford anything. This is the best neighborhood in the city, and everthing was selling for at least $100 a square foot. Yikes. We were determined to spend not more than 150K, and we needed a big house. We looked and looked and looked for nine months.

We considered doing a fixer. Coulden’t find anything. Even junk built 50 years ago was at least 200K. We reached the point where we decided we just coulden’t afford this neighborhood. I was real depressed, grumpy, and irritable for over a week. I coulden’t believe that we coulden’t afford what we wanted.

In this one part of the area, I saw a house next to a day care center that was run down somewhat and had the nasty spanish stucco flair popular locally that I hate so much. I decided not to even look at the house. Why bother? I don’t want to own nasty spanish style.

I was in denial; I just woulden’t give up, so I kept driving and looking. One day I noticed that even the nasty spanish sold. Uggg. This was so hard to swallow. Even crap was selling, and high.

More weeks of driving around. And one day, I drove by the day care again, and the spanish style house was back on the market. I didn’t have to be experienced real estate investor to know something was up. I knocked on the door, talked with the owner, and she said (exact words), “Something horrible happened.” I thought maybe her partner or the buyer’s had died. “His financing fell through,” she said. She proceeded to tell me how she had already bought a new lot, started moving furniture, etc. and just had to get out…

This post is getting way to long, so let’s make a long story short and say we bought the nasty house for 130K, renovated for 20K (150K mortgage, bank’s money; we did put 15K down, gift from parents), and it recently appraised for 255k. It’s a double and last year we rented the other half for $700 a month. It was spanish and nasty inside (hadn’t renovated since the 60s; but under that shag carpet was oak flooring… It ain’t nasty any more!)

Emmbee, this stuff is for real. I forget who said it, but they are right: if you are willing to do for awhile what others are not, you will eventually own what others cannot. Finding this house wasn’t easy, and being the GQ for 12 crews wasn’t either (especially with a fulltime job). But it’s the fastest 100K I’ve ever made in a year and a half! (This summer we plan on selling the house tax free and doing it again…) Most important, though, emmbee: it showed me that a different, better way is possible, and I haven’t been well ever since.

Your post reminds me of my old way of thinking. I hope for your and your families’ sake that you challenge your thinking. You have no idea what you are missing otherwise. And that’s good. It would be too painful to know what wealth really could have been yours, if not for your cognitive distortions. Better to remain ignorant, and foolish.

Re: No Money Down (another joke) - Posted by Tom(NC)

Posted by Tom(NC) on November 06, 1998 at 19:58:14:

Ok…it was a joke. Merely a joke. An attempt to inject some humor into a very sore subject (Sheets: Saint or Devil?)

No matter what your personal feelings about Sheets’ and others’ sales methods, you have to have a sense of humor!!

So…Is it really wise to talk about “flipping” mobile homes? You know…because they attract tornadoes (or hurricanes depending on your part of the country!!!)

Ok…bring on the bitter, sarcastic remarks. I can take them.

Isn’t it ironic that someone’s opinion is only worth two cents, but a phone call costs thirty-five cents?

Re: “NO Money Down” (a joke for you) - Posted by AL

Posted by AL on November 06, 1998 at 13:49:18:

Here writes a person who is now financially independent and I did start with the carlton sheets cource 3years ago! let me make two strong points. one every year millions of people pay and go to college,much more than $180.00 agree do all of these people manage to become a success at a career or life? (easy question).Two It is very hard to believe you can change your life so drastic when you go to work,every day,with the same people who belive this is all there is,im not being mean,im telling you from experience it does take efford,and character.I work for myself tue.thu thur. 9am till 12pm.a good book for you to start off with is RICH DAD POOR DAD you can find it on www.amazon.com then decide if you are REALLY content with a dead end unsecure low paying job you can also email me.

Re: “NO Money Down” (a joke for you) - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on November 06, 1998 at 13:35:01:

Actually, your post is even funnier than the joke (which is one of my favorites). Just search around this site and you’ll see millions of dollars of profit in the success stories and deals taking place.

One deal I did for my sister a few years ago made her 1.4 million dollars over night. Just one deal we did last year was over $110k in profit.

No offense, but you’re wrong. Enjoy your job.

Re: Be critical not foolish - Posted by Gordon

Posted by Gordon on November 24, 1998 at 24:06:10:

Nicely put HR, I couldn’t have said it better myself!

In fact, Emmbee couldn’t be further from the truth. The truth is, I did purchase Carleton Sheet’s home study course, and I did purchase a rental home 2 months later with no money down and aquire $20,000 of instant equity. I have great tenants who pay their rent before the 1st of each month and take good care of the property. In fact, I am now in the process of purchasing my second rental home which will have $35,000 of instant equity, and all with none of my own money. Isn’t life GRAND!!!

Just let people without vision dwindle in their own dismal world, while people like us prosper in lifes hidden treasures of opportunities!

Thank God we’re not all alike.

Thanks, Gordon

Re: “NO Money Down” (a joke for you) - Posted by emmbee

Posted by emmbee on November 10, 1998 at 12:21:17:

And I was not trying to offend you either. And I certainly didn’t try to make my response humorous, although I’m glad it worked out that way. I was merely trying to point out that there are a lot of scams out there and one needs to be wary of them.

As for your deal, I’m glad it worked, and I wouldn’t mind be successful at that type of deal as well. But I would like more education and enlightenment on the
subject instead of hype, hype and more hype, which seems to me to be the lot of these seminars and courses.

And they’re expensive, too! I don’t mind spending money if I know there is the possibility of reward
at the end of the rainbow. I don’t enjoy my job, but I don’t enjoy being scammed by motivational salesmen either, and that was the main thrust of my point. If you are in fact making a fortune in this field, good for you.

Now, would you be so kind as to share this
information with others in a reasonable fashion so that other may learn from you. I would love to know how to make a fortune and real estate. Who wouldn’t? But I would like some sensible individuals to teach courses in the subject and not peddle infomercial “you can be a millionaire in your spare time” type trash that batters hard working people daily.

I have been ripped off by some of these courses, and I was merely expression my anger about it. Any useful information you could suggest about the creative real estate field would be most appreciated!

Thanks! emmbee

REI works, but I have no idea about Sheets - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on November 09, 1998 at 09:26:12:

Apparently from the emails I’ve gotten, my above post gave the impression I have taken the Sheets course or am endorsing him.

I have NOT taken his course and actually just saw it for the first time yesterday. I was at this a long time before anyone other than Sheet’s mother had heard of him.

My post was in reference to two things. Real estate investing does work. It works fabulously. Real estate is un-conditionally the third best investment available.

The first is education - of all forms - particularly education that results in self awareness, insight and healing wounds of the past. I support any legitimate and cost effective education that helps someone succeed financially and in all areas of their lives. The second best investment after yourself is real estate paper. Just my opinion - backed up by 20 years experience in both paper and real estate.

It amazes me to see someone limit their education. As the statement goes, “AT THE FOUNTAIN OF KNOWLEDGE - SOME ARE CONTENT WITH JUST A SIP”. I’ve spent tens of thousands on my real estate and paper education and don’t regret a penny.

My only regrets are the opportunities lost for not having some of the education sooner and the hundreds of thousands I’ve paid for some of the education I’ve had to gain in the streets. I can think of one 9 word clause that could have saved me $10,000. I can think of three words that made a student of mine $17,000.

I cannot even conceive of someone limiting their education or even balancing one course against another. To me, the answer is simple to a question like “should I buy Bill’s course or Claude’s?”. The answer is “yes”. That’s not to discount the questions of what course to start with, did you find value, is their customer service good, etc. That’s another discussion.

The other reference was to the posts here. Based on those posts, obviously most of the Sheet’s students are pleased with what they’ve learned and many have found some good success.

So it grates me when someone sticks their nose in and runs down something they don’t know about. At one time statistics were that 92% of the world’s millionaires had made their money in real estate investment. Frankly I could care less if a few of them made their money selling “Nothing Down” type courses. We listen to, praise and learn from University professors who have never had the guts to leave school - yet run down other forms of education and educators. What little I learned in a finance degree in college came from a professor that rode his mountain bike to school - not just for the exercise.

Though I haven’t listened to the Sheet’s program or actually any of the courses mentioned or carried here, I plan to. I just received Lonnie’s course yesterday in the mail and plan to learn all I can from it. Then I’ll go on to any and every course and book I can get my hands on and learn from them and from all of you.

Re: Be critical not foolish - Posted by mike

Posted by mike on December 16, 1998 at 05:11:55:

well im hooked!! saw the infomercial and am sure it will work.Well who knows but, what can i do with the course and 35k (gift from inlaws)???

Psychic Vampires and Dream Stealers - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on November 10, 1998 at 12:54:48:

Your post didn’t offend me at all. I can see that you are just pointing out some real world experiences you’ve had (with scam artists) and the cynicism it tends to leave any of us with. That doesn’t offend me.

The two extremes of the spectrum offend me horribly. There are “Scam artists” out there. They prey on people’s dreams. I call them “Dream Stealers”. They are no different in my book than scam telemarketers selling phoney securities to old people.

No question that people like William McCorkle fall into that category. They turn my stomach and offend me because they do steal from people. Not just their money, but their hope also. Sometimes they cause much greater harm by not giving real and adequate education. It’s like sending a solder to the front lines with a starter pistol. Firing blanks.

Filled with hope they send the student out in a row boat after Mobey Dick. “Don’t forget the Tartar Sauce” says their so-called “Coach” or their hyped up sales piece they call a book or course.

Sure they are out there. But this is the best resource in the Milky Way Galaxy to know what is real and what isn’t. As I mentioned in another post, I wasn’t defending Carleton Sheets. I haven’t taken his course.

I was reacting to the other extreme - the “Psychic Vampire” that tries to steal people’s hope also. It’s like someone who had a bad experience with a woman and tries to convince everyone that they are “all bad”. Just like real estate, I can tell you there are bad ones out there and fabulous ones too.

Psychic Vampires want to bring people down. They are the type that you feel drained of energy when you are with them. Sometimes they don’t even realize it. Many times they are family members or friends. Sometimes you have to choose to get out of the cage they try to keep you in.

I can see from your post that you’ve run into some scam artists. I don’t doubt that, they are there. I wish they could be “thrown out” but what is interesting is that some very successful people got their starts through some of the people that you would detest if you knew their true motivation, background or experience. There are so-called experts promoting out there that nothing greater than a sales background and a good memorized pitch. One was actually hired out of a Silo store and trained like a monkey.

At the same time, students of some of the truly experienced caring experts still do not succeed. The reason is that success is not just pouring education into your head. It’s the whole picture. It includes an attitude of education, not a particular home study course.

It includes more than anything else “Guts” or what I call “Intention”. A total lack of “Trying”. I love Yoda’s comments in Star Wars to Luke as Luke “tried” to lift the ship. Luke tried to excuse himself with the “I tried” form of BS. Yoda said “Try not. Do. or do not. There is no try”.

That alone is at least 70% of what is required for success. A home study course or coaching program with someone that doesn’t have that bred into them will not give it to you. There are courses far more important than real estate courses that will help in that area.

Explore the resources on this site. There are hundreds of pages of success stories and how to articles that are all free. No strings attached.