New Floor Covering??? - Posted by Ryan (NC)

Real Estate Investing Mobile Homes & Mobile Home Parks
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Posted by Tony Colella on March 27, 2009 at 20:04:01:

The allure looks like it would be reasonable for a bathroom. About $47 for a box (24 square feet) would probably cover most small baths.

I have a decent sized kitchen I need to cover. I could do laminate (have one test case in a singlewide I did last year that I am still watching) but may decide to give this stuff a try. It is still on the higher end but with a 25 year warranty and little to it that water seems like it could harm, I may go ahead and use this home as my test case for kitchens.

I have to believe that with little practice this will be a much easier and faster install than the other alternatives which may pay off in the fact that this home gets rented all that much faster and I get to working on another one all the more sooner.

If I go this route, I will post back.

I figure it should be about $200 or so for the kitchen but will have to measure to be certain.

Tony

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New Floor Covering??? - Posted by Ryan (NC)

Posted by Ryan (NC) on March 26, 2009 at 16:07:59:

Ran across a new product today after getting frustrated on finding a reasonably priced floor covering for an odd sized bath room measuring 6x5, vinyl has gone outa sight and I couldnâ??t find any remnants that were reasonable nor could I find cheap tile to put inâ?¦ I was resorting to putting in sticky tiles when I ran across a new product by Armstrong.

Itâ??s called CeraRoma and itâ??s a high end sticky tile, which is normally not my type of thingâ?¦ Except it installs with grout and looks practically like ceramic AND is water proof once installed. Iâ??m not sure about the durability but it carries the same warranty as the laminate that I love so much, 25 years residential / 5 years light commercial.

I believe it has more to do with the installation of the tiles, they are pretty thick but the grout should help keep the corners down and the water out which is where most damage on sticky tiles comes from in my experienceâ?¦ My thinking is not for anyone to run out and pay $1.08 a sq. ft. for this product BUT that the same logic can be used with regular solid tiles priced at

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Re: New Floor Covering??? - Posted by joe–ga

Posted by joe–ga on March 28, 2009 at 07:35:29:

I have a floor covering store here that deals in 2nds…I buy these seconds, a box of tack strap, and some cheap padding…and find some out of work carpet layer to take care of it. last carpet job I did was a doublewide 24x56…has $400 in al of it… You can find pad on craigslist alot of the time where a carpet layer had padding left from some huge job for $25 a roll

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Pic & Follow Up On New Floor Covering - Posted by Ryan (NC)

Posted by Ryan (NC) on March 27, 2009 at 15:37:01:

Posted a picture of the new tile at:
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/19694808

Picture does not do it justice (plus I still need to paint, yes this is the wrong order!) and I will try to get a picture with more light up soon. The tile is kinda weird to install, itâ??s like a cross between a sticky tile and ceramic eliminating tile saw work. Grout work adds to the time to install and the dreaded wiping down is still there in full effect.

Over all Iâ??m very impressed with the end result using the product as intended. Like I said, my intention is to use the grout with regular sticky tiles for the water proofing and edge protection it offers, this is the main downfall of sticky tiles from what Iâ??ve seen.

I installed the product by using vinyl repair glue $6 a bottle for 6oz, the grout was something like $7, and the â??realâ?? tiles for this test were $1.08x34 ($36.72) for a total of $54.20 w/tax. This total is very high from what I expect in the future but I wanted to install it as intended the first time around.

Installed it looks like a cross between vinyl sheet goods and ceramic tile and I think my tenants will be VERY happy with the end results. I did take a couple of the cut pieces (ok Chris did) and grout the seam to see how it looked against a sharper edge, not quite as good as the results from this flooring but still well within acceptable ranges.

Pros:
Easier & faster to install than ceramic or laminate.
Waterproofing ability looks to be very sound.
Ability to quickly pop individual tiles for replacement if needed.
Applied to regular sticky tiles price should drop by 75% minimum
Better able to conform to floor irregularities than laminate & ceramic.
Looks like the durability of the tiles will jump dramatically.

Cons:
Pretty sure grout will NOT be matchable in the future if tile replacement is needed.
Still a sticky tile in the end and may turn off some buyer/tenants on high-end homes.
Grout cleanup is just as hard as with ceramic tile.
Intended use tiles are just as costly as laminate and ceramic. May prove to be a useless test run with regular sticky tiles.
Not proven at this point.

Best wishes,
Ryan Needler (who had a great day til he found out he missed a tax bill last year, God what a rollercoaster!)

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Re: New Floor Covering??? - Posted by Brenda (OH)

Posted by Brenda (OH) on March 27, 2009 at 12:31:37:

I like this idea, because for me the draw back on stick on tile has been getting perfect alignment…

so if I get the plan, you glue any decent vinyl tile down with vinyl glue, spacing it with spacers or chalk lines, or maybe even eye ball in small bathrooms, let it dry overnight, then mix up non white grout, and grout the floor as if it were regular tile? do you think it would be best to get the tile that does not have the built in beveled edges, but had the straight edge?

Tony, you probably would not like the allure pricing, $1.68 to $2.09 a square foot, but speed and ease of install might make it a go.

Last I heard from Anne in her posting, she had thought that the allure seam pulling problem was because she had caulked the edges, which probably kept the flooring from floating.

Anne, would like to hear if Home Depot did a refund for the problem, or what the final solution was for the issue.

Brenda (OH)

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Interesting - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Tony Colella on March 26, 2009 at 17:06:26:

I am up for trying about anything at this point. I will still do laminate throughout most of the home but I need a product for the wet areas that is a bit faster to install.

Lately I have been doing total remodels of older homes from the ground up (literally). It takes me a couple of months because I never get to focus on the one home all the time. Something always comes up that pulls me away for some time.

I have been laying ceramic tile down which I truly do love when it is done but it just takes me too darn long to finish and then grout, clean…clean…clean…clean the rest of the grout off. Once done, I wouldn’t want it any other way but for now I need something that I like that is about as durable that I can lay down faster.

I realize that with more time I will likely get faster at tiling but its just not my favorite because of the time it takes not to just lay the tile but to get the product finished while having to address other properties and issues.

I plan on looking at the stuff that Anne talks about but was a bit concerned when she had so many problems with it. I know she had intended to follow up with Home Depot. Did she ever say how that worked out?

Tony

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Re: Pic & Follow Up On New Floor Covering - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Tony Colella on March 27, 2009 at 15:58:15:

Next to the Allure planks at Home Depot they had a wider version that looks like full tiles with grout (about 3 tiles long and one tile wide as I recall). This version was about $2.50 per square foot vs. the $1.79 of the planks.

If you are having decent water resistence results with the planks, might not this be easier/faster to install? The price is much higher than I would like but the reduced install time is very appealing. Heck, just not having to clean up grout is all I need to hear. Maybe its just me. Maybe I’m grout DNA deficient but when I am done it looks like a herd of monkeys fingerpainted for a week with the stuff. I’d hire a cleaning crew if I thought they wouldn’t quit.

If I were to grout I think that just go with the ceramic tile. I h8t grout cleanup period so if I were to go that far I think I would just go all the way. With a wet saw the ceramic tiles aren’t too hard to deal with. I get the cheaper tiles on the end isle at lowes.

I would like to find a bit better price on the Allure planks if we could find it at a discount location, surplus or similar store that would really help.

Tony

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Found Anne’s followup post - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Tony Colella on March 27, 2009 at 21:04:23:

Found Anne’s follow up post that I had missed. Looks like Home Depot did the right thing by her.

http://www.creonline.com/mobilehomes/wwwboard4/messages/82716.html

One question I just posted to her on that old string of posts was her reference to an inch of adhesive. Your posts reflect my understanding that these are floating floors much like the laminate. I was wondering if I misread what she wrote because that would certainly change things.

Tony

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Re: New Floor Covering??? - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Tony Colella on March 27, 2009 at 14:33:10:

I am going to give the allure a try either on the home I just started or the next one in line. Kitchen, baths and laundry rooms are the floor covering alternative I seek.

I will try and re-read the posts you and Anne have written on Allure. I will be curious to see what Anne found out with Home Depot’s refund.

Any tips or tricks to the install that you can recommend?

Tony

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Flooring… - Posted by Scott (Wa)

Posted by Scott (Wa) on April 01, 2009 at 12:38:11:

This flooring thing…

This has proved to be the most expensive part of rehab and you often get to do it again…

Flooring part 1 SUBFLOOR: patch or cover holes for safety while you work. I only use plywood in wet room repairs. Iâ??ve fixed several that have been repaired with particleboard and OSB that were bad and needed to be redone. So far all of the ones that had been fixed with ply were solid.

If too much of the floor needs repair I use OSB over the whole room.

Flooring part 2:

Itâ??s clean neat and tidy now. New paint, light fixtures really makes it look nice. Now the floor. What to do with it, just about the most expensive part of the rehab, and the stuff is amazingly short lived with some tenants.

Carpet, big plus, it covers over lumpy floors very nice. Down side, really easy for it to get trashed. So far on all my re-sales/new renter Iâ??ve had to replace carpet in one or more rooms. I’ve used 15’ wide materal mostly to reduce seams.

Vinyl: Big Plus, it cleans up easy. Down side, can be fragile and often needs underlay to go down flat. Almost only usable material for wet areas (bath, laundry, kitchen, entry). I use stained firing strips on the parimeter to help hold it down and caulk to seal it against water leaks. I use floor metal over seams and caulk it as well.

Vinyl stick down tilesâ?¦ I havenâ??t tried this route, I have seen a lot of bad floors in the mobiles I have bought with it.

Tile: Hmmm

Laminate: I used it in the last few places, a complete floor in a rental (except bath, laundry) on the second tenant with no problems. I have checked out a few samples. My latest sample test is to use a 3â?? drywall screw on the sample square and see if you can rip it up. I have seen a couple of brands that it made no mark on it at all and a few where it just ripped it up. The tougher stuff was only 24 cents a foot more, I think that is going into my next one. (Also a rental)

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Re: Pic & Follow Up On New Floor Covering - Posted by Ryan (NC)

Posted by Ryan (NC) on March 27, 2009 at 17:11:31:

I have very mixed feelings on this product! It doesn’t compare price wise to proven ceramic which is cheaper although MUCH harder to install.

I’m not impressed with any of the plank products that I’ve tried. (overrated sticky tiles for big $$$ for the most part) I have not tried allure or the laminate whiteboard tile looking planks but see the same problems that I’ve had with others. If it isnâ??t water resistant it ainâ??t worth anything in a MH! I want a decent end product for the money that I do spend but I still want something for basically nothing, call me cheap it’s ok!

I’m really seeing this as more of an entry level flooring solution which combines good wear & durability with fairly easy overall installation. It took me a little longer to install than sheet goods but I didn’t have to pull the toilet and it’s very forgiving of booboo’s because you can cover it with grout.

I wish youâ??d keep your finger paintâ??in monkeyâ??s up at the top of the mountain or I must just be grout DNA challenged as well cause it took me longer to install and clean the grout than it did to lay the flooring! Overall it took me a little more than an hour of real work to install this bathroom floor albeit spread across 2 days for the added glue to dry.

My main draw to this idea is that you can completely redo a home and have a nice looking end product for about $300 with a little shopping and the fact that almost anybody can install sticky tiles w/o any special tools. It’s almost a prefect fit for LD’s from everything I’ve seen thus far… The durability issue is still TBD but I’m going to give it a go on a broader scale test in a cheapo rental unit with cheap sticky tiles when the opportunity presents it’s self.

Best wishes,
Ryan Needler

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Re: New Floor Covering??? - Posted by Brenda (OH)

Posted by Brenda (OH) on March 29, 2009 at 15:09:25:

Hints…

lay each row down with the backing paper in the side seam, then go back to the top of the row, and start sliding the paper out sideways while you adhere the seam by pushing the top piece down.

step back a bit to make cuts, nibble out holes you need with pliers or vice grips. you have to control all debris to keep the glue strips clean.

if you mess up a glue strip, pull off the big crap, then hit it a squirt of 3m 90 spray adhesive.

you can peel the two layers of the plank apart and create a glue seam to make small patches from scrap to weird spots, like end of rows, the back edge of a row, that are going behind fridge etc. I have put commercial glue down tiles down with 3m 90 spray adhesive, and then just trim with the allure, under a stove, to save on using the expensive allure material.

vacuum after every row or every other row. You cannot control the debris too thoroughly.

don’t worry about floor tiny holes, pits, small level issues up to 1/8 inch if they are not under a seam.

be ready to INSTANTLY pull apart a seam if it goes wrong, you got like seconds before it bonds, or be ready to reglue it down with the 3 M spray. LOL

You are supposed to acclimate the material to 60 to 70s for install, but if you think about it, the rest of the boxes will be getting warm as you start the install, so it is not going to take days to acclimate like they say about the laminate.

bag up the remaining boxes to keep the dust out. The packaging has been improved, it no longer has the flap on the top that would come open and let dust in, but it is still worth closing up the leftover, since it seems to color match well from batch to batch.

Brenda (OH)

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Re: New Floor Covering??? - Posted by Brenda (OH)

Posted by Brenda (OH) on March 28, 2009 at 21:03:08:

I have done a kitchen with allure, the install was easy, I have rolled the fridge across it, only issue was I had a register cover out, and the fridge wheel caught the edge and bent/stretched the allure a little bit, but I was able to push it back down and replace the register cover and it is fine.

Allure flooring (the material) is water proof, the potential problem is if water lays on it it can slowly seep through the seam to the subfloor. but we are talking hours of setting. I had a roof leak, and the water puddled up on the allure floor, and the particle board did not fail underneath the spot.

Brenda (OH)