Posted by Kristine-CA on April 06, 2011 at 19:55:09:
I will, I will. As soon as I’m done passing out those flyers for your new
book I printed from the cover page you sent. I decided we should do a
regional event/signing. Hope you can make it.
BTW, I don’t mean tens of millions when I say multimillionaire, I mean
a little more than that. And that excludes real estate holdings.
Mike Butler Land Trust forms - Posted by james(CA)
Posted by james(CA) on April 02, 2011 at 23:54:04:
Anyone bought his LT forms? I am CA and wondering if they are good to go.
Re: Mike Butler Land Trust forms - Posted by Bill H
Posted by Bill H on April 04, 2011 at 11:50:47:
Do not know Mr Butler but do know that if I were in CA I would take Ward Hanigan’s Trust Class and use his CA Land Trust Forms…www.foreclosureforum.com…is where he can be found.
Good Luck,
Bill H
The problem with any trust is that… - Posted by David Krulac
Posted by David Krulac on April 03, 2011 at 06:57:46:
trusts don’t offer any asset protection only anonminity.
Re: Mike Butler Land Trust forms - Posted by Lee
Posted by Lee on April 03, 2011 at 03:30:14:
I have looked at Mike Butlers forms and I like his and I am going to have an attorney look over them.
One thing that Mike does different than other Gurus is that he (Grantor) creates the trust and has the attorney deed the property into it. Only his entity name is on the original trust.
Most other gurus have the homebuyer(grantor) create the trust and then be the sole beneficary of the trust and then they assign their interest in the trust to the Investors entity. The problem with this is that the Grantor can decide to revoke a trust at a later date and your deal goes away.
This happened to a friend of mine that bought a house that was going into foreclosure that had 40k of equity in it. The original owner created the trust and then assigned the beneficial rights over to the investor. About 4 years later the original owner was in better shape and decided he wanted his old house back. He hired an attorney that helped him revoke the trust and he got the house back.
The way that Mike does it is that he tells the closing attorney what trust to deed it to. He later creates the trust in the privacy of his own office.
Mikes approach to land trusts is simple and strait forward and I like the way that he does it.
Re: Mike Butler Land Trust forms - Posted by BTI
Posted by BTI on April 11, 2011 at 16:31:53:
I agree, if I were starting new I would take Ward’s course and follow his site.
As for Gatten he didn’t invent anything new, his trust is very similiar to one my brother and I developed in 1968 for what we called skinny investing.
Many other investors asked for copies over the years and I kidding remarked on a site somewhere that Gatten must have found a copy. We never thought of turning it into a business though, we just shared it.
Brian
Re: The problem with any trust is that… - Posted by John Hyre
Posted by John Hyre on April 04, 2011 at 16:34:47:
Land trusts DO have legitimate uses…and sometimes, the hassle is worth the benefit. I generally do not care for land trusts used to hold leveraged property when the primary purpose is “privacy” or “asset protection”…there is a benefit, but it strikes me as minor in most cases, especially when compared to the hassle. Exceptions exist.
I do tend to see some worthwhile benefit when used to keep out of chain of title when assigning/selling, or when used to avoid anti-assignment clauses, to name a few examples.
There is also an awful lot of Kool Aid Drinking going on with certain fanatic trust lovers. If you say anything negative about land trusts, they flame away, as if you had belched heresy against their one true deity…just plain bizarre. Some of the benefits such people proclaim are laughable. You can generally spot the Kool Aid Drinkers instantly.
John Hyre
Now David, there ya go again… - Posted by JT-IN
Posted by JT-IN on April 03, 2011 at 11:52:53:
Stating that LT’s provide not real asset protection…
Everyone knows, who have read that cre forum for any length of time, that a PROPERLY DRAFTED THLT, and administered by an FBI trained Trustee, will:
How do we do it? how do we do it? volume, volume, turn up the volume
Now you’ve heard [ THE LAND TRUST ] advertised, don’t hesitate
Don’t be caught with your drawers down
Don’t be caught with your drawers down
You can step right up, step right up
That’s right, it filets, it chops, it dices, slices
Never stops, lasts a lifetime, mows your lawn
And it mows your lawn and it picks up the kids from school
It gets rid of unwanted facial hair
it gets rid of embarrassing age spots
It delivers a pizza, and it lengthens, and it strengthens
And it finds that slipper that’s been at large under the chaise lounge(2) for several weeks
And it plays a mean Rhythm Master
It makes excuses for unwanted lipstick on your collar
And it’s only a dollar, step right up, it’s only a dollar, step right up
'Cause it forges your signature
If not completely satisfied, mail back unused portion of product
For complete refund of price of purchase
Step right up
Please allow thirty days for delivery, don’t be fooled by cheap imitations
You can live in it, live in it, laugh in it, love in it
Swim in it, sleep in it
Live in it, swim in it, laugh in it, love in it
Removes embarrassing stains from contour sheets, that’s right
And it entertains visiting relatives, it turns a sandwich into a banquet
Tired of being the life of the party?
Change your shorts, change your life, change your life
Change into a nine-year-old Hindu boy, get rid of your wife
And it walks your dog, and it doubles on sax
Doubles on sax, you can jump back Jack, see you later alligator
See you later alligator
And it steals your car
It gets rid of your gambling debts, it quits smoking
It’s a friend, and it’s a companion
And it’s the only product you will ever need
Follow these easy assembly instructions it never needs ironing
Well it takes weights off hips, bust, thighs, chin, midriff
Gives you dandruff, and it finds you a job, it is a job
And it strips the phone company free take ten for five exchange
And it gives you denture breath
And you know it’s a friend, and it’s a companion
And it gets rid of your traveler’s checks
It’s new, it’s improved, it’s old-fashioned
Well it takes care of business, never needs winding
Never needs winding, never needs winding
Gets rid of blackheads, the heartbreak of Psoriasis(3)
Christ, you don’t know the meaning of heartbreak, buddy
C’mon, c’mon, c’mon, c’mon [ AND GET YOUR LAND TRUST TODAY ].
[ In part from the lerics of Tom Wait’s “Step Right Up”, with slight embellishment by the author… ] http://www.tomwaitslibrary.com/lyrics/smallchange/steprightup.html
And that my friends is a pretty good description of your Land Trust… and David says it provides NO asset protection… he must be a heritic.
Re: Mike Butler Land Trust forms MAJOR MISTAKE - Posted by John Dockter
Posted by John Dockter on April 03, 2011 at 11:26:05:
In a proper land trust, title is ALWAYS held in the name of the Trustee, period. That is full equitable and legal title. The house is NOT deeded to the Trust, it is deeded to the Trustee, which should ALWAYS be a corporate Trustee that is licensed and bonded as a Trustee. Your information is dangerous and very wrong.
Re: Mike Butler Land Trust forms - Posted by John Dockter
Posted by John Dockter on April 03, 2011 at 11:19:44:
Another incorrect usage of a land trust. If you had used a NARS trust, it is impossible for the former owner (settlor) to revoke the trust. That can only be done with the approval of ALL of the beneficiaries and your friend obviously didn’t know how to prepare a full-proof Beneficiary Agreement. NARS provides the legal review.
As to asset protection, when there is a co-beneficiary involved there is very definite asset protection. I find it frustrating when someone such as yourself knows just enough to be dangerous without knowing the important facts.
Re: The problem with any trust is that… - Posted by Kristine-CA
Posted by Kristine-CA on April 04, 2011 at 16:56:29:
But how do they do that? How could BG or any of the LT “educators”
get their followers so riled up? It’s truly bizarre, as you say. We always
go from a rational discussion or questions about LT to flaming
proclamations, with no back up, no support. At least when BG and
Bronchick used to go at it on this site, it was backed by theories and
ideas from their experience in RE and the law.
There must be some component of the LT educators and their
followers that requires blood oaths.
Re: Now David, there ya go again… - Posted by John Little
Posted by John Little on April 04, 2011 at 10:27:22:
Posted by someone who knows NOTHING about land trusts and demonstrates it every time he posts his inanity. By the way, “lerics” is spelled “lyrics”. Really dumb.
Re: The problem with any trust is that… - Posted by John Hyre
Posted by John Hyre on April 06, 2011 at 16:33:46:
You’ve made some great points in this thread Kristine. I think that this topic boils down to a few thoughts…
Every tool has its use. LT is a tool. It is not a magical thing that solves all of your problems, though it is often presented as such.
A certain personality type is attracted to the magical solution. These types make great culties, be it in this context, or that of a religion, etc. Some people just have to “belong”.
When deciding on when a tool makes sense, one must look at the costs (including intangibles, such as hassle) and make a sober (that is, non-magical) assessment of when it makes sense to use the tool, with a hard-eyed look at real benefits, real costs, and alternative approaches (e.g. LLC’s, etc in this context).
I’ll bet you agree. And as much as I generally disagree with BG, he is very articulate with the written word and a very intelligent man.
John Hyre
PS: And please, while I do teach a bit here and again, I am not a “guru” and do not have “followers”. Clients, yes. Followers…I certainly hope not. Unless they are hot…just kidding!
Re: The problem with any trust is that… - Posted by John Dockter
Posted by John Dockter on April 06, 2011 at 08:21:25:
What you find bizarre, I define as loyalty. When you have used a program and method with absolute success for more than a decade, then you read the banal and inane comments from people who neither understand how a land trust really works and who attack a man who has worked closely with you on getting things perfect for many years, we lash out.
I, personally, have worked with Gatten and WAREIA for over a decade and have seen them purchase hundreds of properties with the EHT system without a hitch. There are many of us who have shared the same experiences and who are appalled at the lack of understanding and/or class from the attackers on this forum.
Thanks for listening.
And every time someone challenges - Posted by JT-IN
Posted by JT-IN on April 04, 2011 at 16:29:36:
Anything to do with a land trust, the LT brigaide comes back with only person insults, as you did here.
This is quite telling… a sign of low self esteem, I think is how they describe it professionally.
Now, lets see what we know about LT’s…? So why don’t you answer the question posed about the asset protection from a slip and fall accident…? Also tell us how the LT protects it Settlor’s and Ben Int from other liability claims, in detail. We are again, all ears John.
Re: Now David, there ya go again… - Posted by John Hyre
Posted by John Hyre on April 04, 2011 at 16:24:50:
Well, thanks for the enlightening explanation Sir Little. Perhaps you should answer AmotoXracer question. Don’t worry, we’ll judge it on substance, as opposed to keystroke slips.
John Hyre
Re: Now David, there ya go again… - Posted by AmotoXracer
Posted by AmotoXracer on April 04, 2011 at 12:27:33:
Ok - I meant to ask - please explain how the land trust protects you from liability associated with a typical slip and fall accident.
Re: Now David, there ya go again… - Posted by AmotoXracer
Posted by AmotoXracer on April 04, 2011 at 12:08:04:
Please explain how the land trust protects you from a typical slip and fall accident.
Re: The problem with any trust is that… - Posted by John Dockter
Posted by John Dockter on April 06, 2011 at 18:44:02:
Thank you, John. You just put your finger on the problem. You guys
are talking about land trusts. I agree that land trusts by themselves do
not provide the necessary asset protection.
When we talk about an EHT, a land trust is only one part of the system.
In BG’s own words: "…the Equity Holding Transfer System? (EHT), we
have integrated the common law land trust model with a triple-net
lease agreement, an assignment of beneficiary interest, a beneficiary
agreement and a limited power of attorney. This combination of forms
allows for a clear and safe transfer of ownership benefits from one
party to another without a title transfer or the standard risk of seller-
assisted financing arrangements.
The EHT very conveniently allows for the facilitation of all of the fee-
simple ownership benefits of virtually any “creative financing” method,
including the desired end-results and objectives of: the lease option,
the lease purchase, the equity-share, the wrap-around mortgage (AITD
or AIM), the contract-for-deed (i.e., the land sale contract), or any
other subject-to seller carry arrangements.
The system can also accommodate safe, fast and simple
condominiumization of multi-unit buildings, fast and simple time-
shares, fast and simple seller-carry bridge loans, the simplest
partnering arrangements, full asset protection, etc."
You are talking about the limits of a land trust, correctly, but when
combined the way BG does it, it’s much more. Now hopefully we can
agree as to their comparative value and benefits.
Re: The problem with any trust is that… - Posted by Kristine-Ca
Posted by Kristine-Ca on April 06, 2011 at 10:40:06:
Loyalty is not hard to understand or bizarre. What’s bizarre is when
the loyal don’t want to explain themselves or back up anything they
say with relevant facts or case law or even good examples of one of
their many, many brilliant transactions. They just keep spewing their
ideas, and often what seems stranger, is the insistence that everyone
who disagrees or asks questions is wrong and misinformed. Like I
said, at least BG could parse an argument.