Lost, confused, hopeless--for years - Posted by Brian

Posted by Ronald * Starr on June 24, 2001 at 15:13:53:


Hm, well if I made you say those things, it is probably a good thing. I agree with what you say.

I would guess that those who have been successful at other things would have more success at RE investing than those without a history of success. However, I do feel that real estate has a big benefit: variety. There are a lot of different ways to make money with real estate. So the person can tailor an approach that suits him/her and plays to his/her strenghts. This give everyone more of a chance to be success.

However, there is nothing you have written in this post with which I disagree. For money to come out, something has to go into your system of real estate investing. It takes energy in – yours – and other inputs: time, creativity, perseverance, knowledge, care, and much more. But, some people put a lot into their hobbies or avocations. If one were to treat real estate investing as a hobby, one might find some enjoyment in it. And that aids the persistence. After all, while work is four-letter word, so is “play.” If you play at the “real estate Game,” you might find success at it.

Good Investing and Good PostingRon Starr**

Lost, confused, hopeless–for years - Posted by Brian

Posted by Brian on June 23, 2001 at 13:29:58:

Simply. I need help. I do not know what type of help I need. Maybe someone can identify with my story.

Briefly. I’ve been infatuated with real estate for several years. I have a couple courses, spent thousands on seminars, software, books, etc. I am chalk full of knowledge and methods, techniques, and strategies.

Yet. I have nothing. I’m a college educated 20 something with a house and two dogs. I have come very close to some good deals over the years…yet all fail. I’ve diligently but not persistantly searched for good deals–and I know they exist; I’ve found them. I have no success to speak of…just false hopes, and a couple cancelled closings, dozens of empty credit cards I thought I’d need, debt from all this ‘education,’ and much lower credit scores from my once mid 700’s before I started engaging these dreams.

I’m depressed. I’m a smart guy with passion. I know what I want and can taste it, yet I settle for the 60 hour work weeks of Tech world management that leave me disenchanted. I live in the greater Colorado Springs and Denver area. I believe I have tried. I desperately want to succeed. I need a FIRST true success. I feel like I have failed for 2 years, and yet friends and family who talk to me come to me for all sorts of RE advise and I even have helped others negotiate some good deals, save money, avoid traps, and work the system in a way that they would not have thought of before. I’m like an expert in theory (not really), but never left first base with action and success.

Has anyone experienced any of this. What is the break in the RUT? Where should my focus be–maybe I’ve been trying to focus on too much that I fail to take simple action toward one success in one technique.

You have courage, Brian - Posted by Rolfe Kurtyka

Posted by Rolfe Kurtyka on June 24, 2001 at 21:35:14:


Hang in there, my man.

To write a post such as you have written takes tremendous courage. Guts. More than most.

To even consider taking steps to better your life through a business venture like REI takes courage.

To admit things have yet to blossom takes courage. To admit you feel as if you have “failed” for two years takes courage.

Of course, as you and I both know, YOU HAVE NOT FAILED. You are still here, posting, trying, learning, passionate.

The past two years does not define you.

Even if you did give up trying, I would not agree that you failed. You’ll learn from this, and move on. That is not failing.

If you never even tried, had the dreams but never acted, had the ability but never ventured, had the knowledge but never shared that knowledge for the benefit of others, then maybe, just maybe, we could begin to talk about failing.

But you did not do these things. You have courage. You took action. You’ve helped others.

We can fail 100 times, we only need succeed once.

The future is not yet written, and you are still very young, and you have time.

Abe Lincoln had set back after set back before he succeeded.

Take care, stay in touch. Rolfe

Re: Lost, confused, hopeless–for years - Posted by Ronald * Starr

Posted by Ronald * Starr on June 24, 2001 at 11:42:56:


You’ve gotten some good advice. Let’s see if mine helps at all.

Well, first off, I see you saying you spend 60 hours a week at your first job. That does not leave much time for your second job “Real Estate Investor.” If you could reduce the work on the first job, that could help.

It sounds like you have paid your dues, in terms of learning your local market and how real estate works. That is a tremendous value to you. You might want to look at my post “How to Get Rich with Real Estate” to Butch a couple of days ago. Some of what I say there might be helpful to you.

I have had a problem similar to an earlier post, not wanting to get out and do it for myself. I help other people, which is nice, but I have had to “reconstruct myself” to not wait for somebody else to do it for me. I was waiting for mommie to come, or daddie, or well, somebody. I now am working on doing my work for myself. This took internal analysis. Which took time. Not a lot of time any day, but many days of allowing my inner feelings to come out and for me to accept them. I recomment meditation. I do a sort of zazen–try to just be aware of experiences, sensations. Do nothing. Just sit and notice what you notice. Come back the present, gently, whenever you drift off into thinking, daydreams, etc.

You might also find some of the therapies helpful. I think good are psychoneural linguistic programming, gestalt, and rational therapy.

I am not real enthusiastic about a “mentor.” However, having somebody talk with you to figure out what your stategy or approach is, that I would support. I think we all have to do our own thing, and somebody else who has their own thing might just confuse the issue. But somebody who is willing to help you sort through the 13,478 different ways to make money with real estate and find the few that fit you, that might be valuable.

I like to help people do that. However, I do not do it for free.

Good Investing and Good Self-understanding*Ron Starr

REI is not for everyone ! - Posted by JT - IN

Posted by JT - IN on June 24, 2001 at 24:46:45:


REI may not be your cup of tea. You have fallen for idea of independence and unlimited income, etc. (who wouldn’t?), which are the possible upside of this business, but there are a number of prices to be paid to obtain these expected rewards. The thought that each and everyone that has sought a careeer as an independent RE investor, is way overrated and underachieved by most. The real problem is that any person seeking such a lofty goal, will have to have the ability to balance many issues, such as:

  1. Independent time management, no more boss to tell you when and where. Most of us think that we can handle this minor issue, but I see sooo many ppl get sidetracked and run-aground with the lack of ability to make yourself do productive things first, or else, as would happen in the corporate world, fire yourself. Why haven’t you done so by now. If you were paying yourself, to do what you have been doing, the last several years, albeit you are a beginner, but at what point would you have pulled the plug, if you were your boss, at arms length?

  2. Temperment for risk/reward: Not everyone is equipped to handle this aspect of this business. While folks that have “made it” financially, will tell you, that the true risk is in NOT taking these risks, and attaining financial independence. However, most folks can’t handle/balance the stress of these perceived risks.

  3. Being Realistic: Most potential investors enter this business without the knowledge and understanding of what it takes to be successful in the REI business. Many folks enter this business on emotion, (a high from a recent infomercial), and leave it on emotion, (depressed and anxious). Can you imagine someone entering the field that you are currently in, opening their own company right off the bat, without having a sound foundation of knowledge, or having been successful in the business previously; it doesn’t happen this way, does it? But ppl try to do this everyday in REI.

It seems that since you have floundered about, and you insist that you truely do want to be a REI investor, that your only remaining hope would be to latch onto someone, as a mentor. Now I am not advocating paying someone for mentoring service, but locating a local investor, who you may strike some common thread with, that would be willing to help you sort out where you are going, if anywhere, in this business that we call REI. Short of a successful relationship there, I think you will continue to flounder, and become deeper in the whole of spending, on unused education and further down emotionally. Consider getting direction, or getting a road map out of the business. Good luck on whichever way this turns out.

I feel for you, but as I write this, I am thinking of many ppl that I see in a similar situation. Maybe I should cc them on this message.

Just the way that I see things…


The salary inflated ego syndrome - Posted by Potash

Posted by Potash on June 23, 2001 at 23:22:06:

Here’s the problem: You graduated from College at the right time with the right major. You entered an industry which has experienced enormous growth over the past 7 years (Telecommunications Cabling). There are very few people with the degree or experience to do the job your doing (at least that is what Qwest, Global Crossing et al think). Hence you are getting paid in your regular job way more than you really deserve (we both know cabeling is real easy, well at least I do). You have somehow deluded yourself into thinking that you are actualy worth the money you are getting, and that you are smarter than the 95% of the population that makes less than you do. You think that since you have been so sucessful in your day job, that you should be sucessful in Real Estate. The reason that you have not been succesful in Real Estate is that you just are not as smart as you think you are.

Re: Lost, confused, hopeless–for years - Posted by Jim IL

Posted by Jim IL on June 23, 2001 at 15:57:13:

Okay, you said that you have studied and actually had a few deals come “Close” to closing, but fell thru.
You have done more than most.
What is the next step?
Well, how are you finding these “Deals”?
What makes you think they were “good deals”?
Are sellers calling you?
See, to me, calling on ads, and visiting FSBO open houses is good, for one thing; To learn the market, and that is about it.
You MAY get a deal here and there doing this, but not many.
You need to get sellers calling you. Chances are better for you this way.
They already know you are an investor, so they will not be scared off by that, and they already have acknowledged that they want or need to sell.
So, MARKETING should be your next step in my opinion.
Get what you do? and how to contact you? out in front of as many people as you can, then the phone will ring.
After that, weed out the non motivated callers, and sign some deals up.

Just make sure you are ready in the education dept. to structure deals that will solve the sellers problem.
They key is to be able to solve the sellers problem and make money at the same time. IF you can do that, in a confident and professional manner, then you have a deal.

Jim IL

Fear of rejection - Posted by BillW

Posted by BillW on June 23, 2001 at 15:32:35:

You are not alone in this. Many of us have had the same situations.
The 3 biggest obstacles that I can think of which I have seen stifle many people are 1. Fear of rejection, 2. Comfort zone and 3. a little psychological trap that says you can never be more successful than your parents.
Each of these can produce paralyzing problems that can halt someones desires and advancement.
Fear of rejection can be dealt with by repeated persistant attempts do deals. Remember, it’s a numbers game. Get the motivated sellers calling you, not the other way around. Repitition is the key.
Comfort zone can be an insidious trap. We get used to what we have and then we don’t try to get out of it hard enough. We work in our jobs, trapped like bees in a jar, never realizing we can escape. After a while, we accept our situation. It becomes comfortable. Unless something drastic happens, we are doomed to keep repeating our actions until we are numb and resigned to our fate.
There has been much work done on the psychological significance of not wanting to surpass our parents. It’s available to those who want to research it. It usually manifests itself by causing something to “go wrong” just as we approach that barrier where we will break through. Most of us know someone who is like that. Just as they are on the verge of success, the deal falls apart.
Try this. Focus on one type of deal you feel like you’re comfortable with and don’t let up till you get one. 24/7. Put distractions out of your way and don’t stop.
Let us know how it works out.
Good luck,

Re: Lost, confused, hopeless–for years - Posted by Vicky

Posted by Vicky on June 23, 2001 at 14:54:18:

Just a thought…I think that some people have trouble putting themselves first. Since we are brought up in a performance/reward educational system, it can sometimes seem odd to follow ones own path without someone looking over your shoulder…

Maybe try this - Have someone lean on you to produce results. Get a friend or relative to demand you perform by finding the right deals, running the spread sheets, and when the right property comes along, perform all of the way through to the closing and beyond. Sit down with them, with a calendar, and map out your next month - FSBO phone calls on Monday, Expireds on Tuesday, Home visits Wednesdays, make 3 offers by the end of the month, whatever will bring you to accomplish your first deal. Show them your results weekly. Not only will this make you do it, but will help you learn from the patterns you’ll see when looking back - what works, what doesn’t… Imagine that this person is paying you to perform, and if you don’t - you’ll lose the security of your JOB. But fit your lifestyle around your goals, not your goals around your lifestyle. Give it a priority. Think of all of the hours and time you’ve already put into it - and give yourself credit for that. You’ve taken it further than most people on Earth. Reward yourself by seeing it through - the first deal is the most intimidating, after the third deal you realize it’s just plaster and paint, and a big game of Monopoly. You can do it! Good luck!!!

Re: REI is not for everyone ! - Posted by Ronald * Starr

Posted by Ronald * Starr on June 24, 2001 at 11:22:15:


I like your post. I hope that is helpful to Brian.

Do you have some other thoughts on the topic?

Good Investing and Good Thinking**Ron Starr

Re: Lost, confused, hopeless–for years - Posted by brian

Posted by brian on June 23, 2001 at 18:55:34:

I appreciate the good word. I think that is what I need to do differently. I have a pretty good idea about the markets I live in by now, but I have not marketed to have people calling me or VM systems, etc. I know I can and will do it. Your comments about not wanting to exceed parental income were interesting as well.

Re: Fear of rejection - Posted by brian

Posted by brian on June 23, 2001 at 19:11:00:

Ah, psychology…now that’s the key! Hence the comment I don’t know what kind of help I need…a psychologist? Actually, I think you made some very good points…I need to focus and not let myself get blinded by anything. I made a comment to another reply about the parents thing…I think that’s interesting because I’m in the range of income of my father…perhaps my own subconscious is sabotoging potential success…its a good theory.

Well, actually, Yes I do… - Posted by JT - IN

Posted by JT - IN on June 24, 2001 at 12:12:39:

Ron *

What is the old saying (paraphrased): Success is 10% inspiration and 90% persperation !

I get the feeling that many looking into RE investing, as either a serious hobby, or a vocation, think that they can get all “inspired”, kind of like a revelation or a religious vision of JC Himself, and go out after listening to a few tapes, and actually make a million.

In reality, as indicated on the disclamer on the bottom of most infomercial ads, “these results are not the norm, and are extrememly small %, because after we get your money you will probably fall flat on your face”, or something like that. At the risk of being called negative, by expounding upon the realities of experiences by most new, wanabe RE investors, it just doesn’t ususally happen the way most folks expect. Now obviously, there are exceptions to this rule, whereby a New investor, we’ll call “Bumble-Bee”, (because bumble-bees don’t know that they can’t fly; defying physics), who doesn’t know that he shouldn’t go out and succeed, defies all logic, and puts together several deals against all odds, and begins making a respectable living. However, most expect that they will begin making the “big bucks”, cause they haven’t been able to do so anywhere else, and now is their time, due to this magical thing called RE investing. Well, I happen to be one that thinks that your life experiences mirror one another, meaning, if you haven’t been too successful at other things, then this will probably be your fate in RE investing. Sorry for the dose of cod-liver oil.

There are so many skills at play to a successful RE investing career, that are so underplayed here, and other places, that it almost makes me think that a 3 year old could make $$ in RE. However, I have been in this game, and the financial world for a long time, and I know better. Don’t misunderstand, I make quite a good income in this business, and I am not trying to make it sound impossible to do, but if it was easy as it sounds here on this board, then why isn’t everyone making a million?

Let me get off this horse, before I fall and hurt myself. I think/know that CREonline board is an excellent tool and asset to many, me included, as I often and routinely benefit from the knowledge and ideas put forth by many. I do happen to know that it is just not as simple as portrayed, in a lot of cases, and I think that many newcomers read and listen about, here and throughout the industry, and feel that it would be abnormal not to make mega-bucks in RE investing, because everyone is doing so, and all that I am saying is that the portrayal of that idea, which comes accross here and so many other places, is a dis-service to uninformed potential investors.

Just the way that I view things…


PS. Ron * made me say these things.