Posted by Nike on March 22, 2009 at 05:02:20:
Bill O’Reilly? Close–Bill Shakespeare. My answers were accurate and consistent. This isn’t that complicated. Call the reference desk at your local library and ask whether they have a Property Law Hornbook (used by law students)–look understand estates in land and futures interests. Good luck.
Life Estates - Posted by Jack
Posted by Jack on February 20, 2009 at 15:13:01:
Does anyone know anything about Life Estates and how many times a piece of property can be legally passed in a life estate. I have a situation where I am trying to buy a property which has been passed twice in life estates to family members. This is in Oklahoma. I have heard that a piece of property cannot be passed more than once in a life estate. Does anyone know whether this is true or not?
Re:Multiple Life Estates in Same Document. - Posted by Jack-E
Posted by Jack-E on April 01, 2009 at 14:38:01:
If a life estate is passed to one heir,and successively to a second heir and then to the second heirs’ heirs in the same document, it would seem to me that the successive passings after the first Life Estate are invalid, as the parties involved had no say so or legal control over the property they inheirited. Has anyone experienced this or know the legal answer?
Re: Life Estates-Answers Please - Posted by Jack-E
Posted by Jack-E on March 25, 2009 at 15:11:31:
Rick and bill I am still waiting for your answer.
Re: Life Estates-Whose Life? - Posted by Jack-e
Posted by Jack-e on February 27, 2009 at 14:56:45:
This thred seems to have taken a life of it own. What I am really after here is, does anyone know if there is any legal prohabition against a Life Estate on a singe piece of property passing more than once? In another words, to give an example, if a piece of property is passed in a Life estate to a son and then to a second son, in the same document, if there are no heirs of the first son and thence to the second sons’ heirs, is that legal? I have been given to understand that it is not, as the sucessive heirs of the first or second had no control. Sounds logical to me as if not, a piece of property could be passed from heirs to heirs forever, with out their say so. Does any one have any experience with a situation like this as it would be very detrimental to purchasing a piece of property. How about you Bill Bronchick?
Re: Life Estates - Posted by Beachbum
Posted by Beachbum on February 25, 2009 at 21:12:51:
I haven’t a clue what you are really asking, but I have dealt with a life estate in the past. Typically, a life estate involves property that is to benefit (meaning, he can use it or do whatever except he cannot commit “waste”), for example, your brother, for the natural life of the Grantor- you, in this case. At your death, it then “reverts” to a third party, perhaps your son, who would be the “remainderman” and would then “own” the entire bundle of rights. Until you die, your brother has an equitable “interest” in the property which he can sell, rent, or whatever…and, in fact, your brother also has a definable, equitable interest, (which is separate from the Beneficiaries) however, this doesn’t change what happens when you die- the whole shebang STILL goes to the remainderman at that time.
I utilized my Beneficial interest in a property as collateral for a loan. They took into consideration the age of the Grantor and looked at the actuarial tables to determine a value for this interest, but FYI both the Beneficiary and the Remainderman have positions of value.
You can never sell a greater interest than you own, so if the current Beneficiary sells his interest, it is still only a Beneficial interest- it does not magically change into fee simple.
hth…even though it is NOT legal advice.
Talked to OK title co.? - Posted by John Merchant
Posted by John Merchant on February 24, 2009 at 09:03:14:
If you’re seriously wanting to know, hire an OK title co. to run title.
Answers Please - Posted by Nike
Posted by Nike on March 27, 2009 at 13:37:05:
Maybe you’d also like help tying your shoe laces? I can’t tell if you’re dumb or you’re lazy.
Estates-Whose Life? - Posted by Nike
Posted by Nike on March 12, 2009 at 21:05:41:
Yes it’s legal. I think you’re confused. If the grantor/testator creates a life estate then there must be a future interest. Successive life estates may be created. If you want to purchase a property from the life tenant you must also get the future-interest holder to convey their interest.
Re: Life Estates-Whose Life? - Posted by Rick, the Probate Guy
Posted by Rick, the Probate Guy on March 02, 2009 at 10:05:23:
If created in a single document, perhaps yes.
If the transfer instrument, typcially a deed, has any restrictions upon an interest passing at the time of the execution of the document, there could be a problem if it affects the “Delivery and Acceptance” of the transfer vehicle.
Since Mr. Bronchick’s is named as a moderator of this particlular forum, perhaps he’ll chime in with his perspective.
My own feeling is that it will depend (I like saying ‘it depends’ even tho’ I’m not an attorney) on how the transfer instrument is drafted and the state that the property is in (although, candidly, I’d be hard pressed to be certain for even my home state, CA).
Lastly, title officers have issues with anything that they can’t get their arms around. If it appears to be an unacertainable risk, the answer is, the effect of that document will be listed as an exception to their offer to insure (prelim report). Alternatively, if you can bond around or accept the risk yourself via indemnification, title company might be very willing to work with you.
Re: Talked to OK title co.? - Posted by Jack
Posted by Jack on February 24, 2009 at 15:55:51:
I have, but running title will not identify whether or not a Life Estate will be able to pass more than once. All it does is tell you what happened whether it is correct or not.
Re: Document. Dumb and Dumber - Posted by Jack-E
Posted by Jack-E on April 28, 2009 at 14:33:44:
I maybe, but not as dumb as you
Life Estates- What do you think Bill Bronchick? - Posted by Jack-E
Posted by Jack-E on March 09, 2009 at 15:12:26:
Bill. What do you think on this? Can title to a property pass to two or more suceeding individuals in one life estate in the same document? If so, or no why or why not?
Re: Life Estates-Whose Life? - Posted by Jack-E
Posted by Jack-E on March 02, 2009 at 15:11:48:
Yes, the transfer document in this case was a will of the original owners after the run of 1889 in Oklahoma. It states that the title to the original 160 acres passes to the first son upon their death in a life estate, and to the second son, if the first has no heirs, also in a life estate and thence to his heirs. There in lies the problem. Can a life estate on the same property legally pass twice on an original will? It seems to me that this may be very suspect? I would also welcome Mr Bronchick’s opinion?
Maybe asking wrong question - Posted by John Merchant
Posted by John Merchant on February 24, 2009 at 18:12:27:
You’re wanting to be able to sell a particular RE prop, right?
So the right question to the title officer is:
"Can I sell it with the title as it now is?
If not, what do I have to do to make it legally sellable? With your insuring and guaranteeing my title? "
This is a probate question, not a DEED question… - Posted by Rick, the Probate Guy
Posted by Rick, the Probate Guy on March 02, 2009 at 15:45:05:
Jack - Need a qualified OK probate attorney to review and determine the chain of distribution. I say that, absent the property going thru probate, you’ll always have a loose end.
Maybe you ought to provide the actual language used (sans names and such) and specifically whether this is only a will or a will plus deed plus(?). Otherwise, we’re on a wild goose chase here.
Believe me, I look at lots of this stuff as this is and has been my business for several decades, however you need to make it more specific rather than bits and pieces of what YOU’RE looking at.
Maybe young Mr. Bronchick is busy with his seminars and books.
Re: Maybe asking wrong question - Posted by Jack-E
Posted by Jack-E on February 25, 2009 at 15:22:42:
No, I am on the other end, I want to buy it. However if Life estates can only be passed one time, then the people I am dealing with do not have valid title, no matter what they say.
Re: This is a probate, not DEED question… - Posted by Jack-E
Posted by Jack-E on March 03, 2009 at 14:12:13:
This is an actual will that was probated and filed on County Records. It states that the property will pass in a life estate to the eldest son and if he has no heirs,(which he did not) then to the second eldest son and his heirs. There was a quiet title suit by the heirs of the second son, but it only covered two of the seven original heirs heirs. There was to my knowledge no recorded deed. The second son’s will as probated did not mention the property What do you make of this?
As B, demand T insurance! - Posted by John Merchant
Posted by John Merchant on February 25, 2009 at 16:38:14:
Counseling a Buyer I always advise he require Seller deliver a title policy so we know B is getting good title.
I wouldn’t recommend you pay S anything without getting T policy so you know you’ve got good title.