license in Missouri? - Posted by Larry Henson

import · December 22, 2002, 3:14am

Posted by DanielMO on December 25, 2002 at 21:57:20:

http://www.moga.state.mo.us/statutes/chapters/chap700.htm

Above is the Missouri Revised Statutes, Chapter 700
Manufactured Homes (Mobile Homes), August 28, 2002.

From my inexpert reading of these statutes (I am not a lawyer, and I do not play one on TV):

If you do less than 4 deals a year, you’re not a dealer. If you are a dealer,

you pay $50 ( one time? 700.455,) to be registered as a dealer;

you need a biz address & phone (700.455, home?, safety deposit box and a cell phone?, friend’s business address?)

you pay $200/year to be a “registered dealer” (700.090);

the repossessing statues are quite good for landlords (you can repossess w/o legal process, providing it’s in your contract (700.360), a repossessed title is $10.

you have to make monthly reports on a PSC form of your sales (700.460), and you have to collect & pay sales tax.

MH owners have to give buyers info about what’s included with the sale (700.050, i.e., appliances), and they have to keep the home anchored (700.076) which is done by someone registered to do that (and paid for by whomever you’re buying from, naturally).

The post-1976 home has to meet minimum HUD requirements to get a “seal” to pass inspection (700.090), but it’s hard to see how this is a deal killer, because there are exceptions to this, too (bring it up to code).

I dunno, but for 4+ “Lonnie” deals a year, $200 / year, the bother of sales tax, a monthly report, and a biz address-- this seems a relatively small price to pay for the good repossess, plus lienholder bits in the law, not to mention the yield.

I’m glad this thread made me go look all this stuff up. Hope this helps, and check out the URL above to see for yourself.

import · December 22, 2002, 3:14am

license in Missouri? - Posted by Larry Henson

Posted by Larry Henson on December 22, 2002 at 04:14:07:

Just read DOW. Wow what a great book, thanks Lonnie.
Was wondering if anyone from Missouri doing deals if we need to get a dealer license? Thanks Larry MO

import · December 24, 2002, 9:55am

So then what’s the next step for MO folks? - Posted by Jill in MO

Posted by Jill in MO on December 24, 2002 at 10:55:02:

Just read through all of the responses to Larry’s original post. That leads me to ask, “What’s the next step for folks in Missouri?”

How, exactly, do you become a dealer? It’s not like taking a real estate course and passing an exam, is it?

import · December 23, 2002, 6:05pm

6 or more in calendar year - Posted by John Merchant

Posted by John Merchant on December 23, 2002 at 19:05:12:

Here’s an excerpt from MO Stats that took me about 5 minutes to find, that would seem to protect you from having to be licensed so long as you didn’t sell 6 or more in any calendar year.

(7) “Motor vehicle dealer” or “dealer”, any person who, for commission or with an intent to make a profit or gain of money or other thing of value, sells, barters, exchanges, leases or rents with the option to purchase, or who offers or attempts to sell or negotiates the sale of motor vehicles or trailers whether or not the motor vehicles or trailers are owned by such person; provided, however, an individual auctioneer or auction conducted by an auctioneer licensed pursuant to chapter 343, RSMo, shall not be included within the definition of a motor vehicle dealer. The sale of six or more motor vehicles or trailers in any calendar year shall be required as evidence that such person is engaged in the motor vehicle business and is eligible for licensure as a motor vehicle dealer under sections 301.550 to 301.573

import · December 23, 2002, 5:54pm

Look at the MO law - Posted by John Merchant

Posted by John Merchant on December 23, 2002 at 18:54:36:

State statutes are simple to find, and there’s probably a hundred different sites that would come up immediately to let you browse MO stats on this.

When you’ve found “Missouri statutes”, then go to index and have a look. I’ts not brain surgery to see what MO Stats are in existence on MH Dealers, definition of MH Dealer in MO, licensing, etc.

You can be an authority on the subject in just a few minutes and then let the rest of the MH world know too.

Merry Christmas

import · December 22, 2002, 1:10pm

Re: license in Missouri? - Posted by Jill

Posted by Jill on December 22, 2002 at 14:10:17:

Hi Larry,

I don’t have an answer to your question, but I’m in MO too and thought I’d say hello.

Jill

import · December 24, 2002, 10:14am

Just answered my ? but now have MORE questions - Posted by Jill in MO

Posted by Jill in MO on December 24, 2002 at 11:14:44:

Went to the MO link provided below and answered my question about how to become a dealer. Looks like you fill out a form and send in a fee and that’s that.

However, what about the rules listed within that document, like stating that there must be a place of business with enclosed buildings, customers can come by, officials can review books, etc.? A bonafide place of business? Does that apply to manufacturers only? What about those of us who merely want to do Lonnie deals and use an office from home, therefore no clients would come to our home office? Instead, we would be contacting people by phone and then going out to meet them?

In my town there are lots of STUPID little rules that they try to enforce about homebased businesses. Some of them make sense, for example you don’t want your next door neighbor running a salvage yard in their backyard so they have rules about that. However, there is a guy around the corner from me who is truly running a salvage yard from home and the neighbors are so mad about it, yet the city says there is nothing they can do. Nothing they can do? They’ve got specific rules against it yet they choose to do nothing. Meanwhile at all hours of the day and night, this guy is backing trailers up the side of the house, making ruts in the yard, and dumping more parts back there – chassis, you name it he’s got it back there. And people pull up to do business all the time.

They won’t enforce the rules about this, but they make huge big deals about little tiny things like telling me I can’t store the inventory for my homebased business in my home office, garage, or attic – I have to get a storage unit. No way. I told them my inventory is so small that it fits in closets (which is true) and there is no way I’m going to pay extra overhead each month for a storage unit, plus add to the amount of time it takes to conduct my business by having to drive to and from a storage unit. No way!

import · December 25, 2002, 6:40pm

Re: 6 or more in calendar year - Posted by Daniel in MO

Posted by Daniel in MO on December 25, 2002 at 19:40:55:

I would want to check this out further. The code I’ve read refers to “automobiles and trailers” or else it refers to “manufactured homes or modular homes” and it may be that these are two distinct categories. After all, a “trailer” may not be a “manufactured home” in this sense. I wonder if anyone here has more info on this?

import · December 23, 2002, 11:05pm

Re: 6 or more in calendar year - not quite - Posted by Mr. C

Posted by Mr. C on December 24, 2002 at 24:05:07:

It reads “motor vehicles or trailers”… as in something TOWED behind a motor vehicle. It further states… “The sale of six or more motor vehicles or trailers in any calendar year shall be required as evidence that such person is engaged in the motor vehicle business and is eligible for licensure as a motor vehicle dealer…”

I see nothing here indicating that this applies to “manufactured homes”. Altho well intentioned, you’ve obviously quoted the wrong statute.

import · December 24, 2002, 9:16am

Re: Look at the MO law - Posted by Bob_MO

Posted by Bob_MO on December 24, 2002 at 10:16:04:

Here you go… It is the full list of statutes for MHs in Missouri

http://www.moga.state.mo.us/statutes/chapters/chap700.htm

import · December 23, 2002, 6:56am

Re: license in Missouri? - Posted by Bob_MO

Posted by Bob_MO on December 23, 2002 at 07:56:15:

I too am in MO… I would like to know the answer to that same question… What type of license are needed to do business in MO…

Also, where in Mo are you guys from?

Bob

import · December 25, 2002, 6:37pm

Re: MO Dealer license? Sure you want one? - Posted by Daniel in MO

Posted by Daniel in MO on December 25, 2002 at 19:37:37:

Didn’t see Jill’s link. But I don’t think you have to be a dealer to sell homes. The code I read specifically mentions non-dealers and what it takes to inspect a home (and pass) when sold by a non-dealer.

I looked and couldn’t find where you became a dealer. But most of the regs for dealers had to do with new MH dealers, in any event.

I suppose I’ll check with a lawyer or CPA eventually, but as far as I can tell, as long as you collect and pass on sales tax, you’re doing okay (and getting the MH to pass inspection).

Of course, I’ll keep reading posts to find out if anybody else has more info…

import · December 24, 2002, 9:13am

Re: 6 or more in calendar year - not quite - Posted by Bob_MO

Posted by Bob_MO on December 24, 2002 at 10:13:04:

The number for MHs are 4 in a 12 month period. I will post the exact wording when I get home, that is where my paper is…

import · December 25, 2002, 7:21pm

Re: Look at the MO law - THANKS - nt - Posted by DanielMO

Posted by DanielMO on December 25, 2002 at 20:21:11:

nt

import · December 25, 2002, 4:23pm

Re: license in Missouri? - Posted by Dennis

Posted by Dennis on December 25, 2002 at 17:23:04:

I am also in Missouri. Am in the just north section of
Kansas City

import · December 25, 2002, 7:00pm

Right attitude! - Posted by John Merchant

Posted by John Merchant on December 25, 2002 at 20:00:57:

Great attitude. In being reluctant to be dragged into thinking you (or anyone)automatically has to ask the State’s permission to do anything.

It’s depressing to me that so many people automatically assume that one has to ask the state’s permission to do anything. And I prefer to take the position that it’s gotta be proven to me that the State has ANY business telling a citizen what to do, or how to do it, etc.

Particularly in the pursuit of investing in MHs, buying and reselling them, carrying notes, etc. am I reluctant to just cave in and beg the state to please let me be an investor! Bullfiddle!

So I’d encourage you to find and read those stats applicable to YOUR state, be it in MO or elsewhere, and make your own decision as to whether there’s ANY local requirement for licensing or not.

I’m remembering an old bumper sticker from the 60’s, with which I totally agree: “Challenge Authority”.

And a note for the amateur, non-lawyer legal researcher when checking a state’s stats or Fed Law…look for and read the legal definitions in any statute, to see what the lawmakers intended…for instance, in MH legislation, look for definition of Dealer to see what the statute says a Dealer is.

import · December 24, 2002, 9:25am

You’re right. Here’s the right stat - Posted by John Merchant

Posted by John Merchant on December 24, 2002 at 10:25:16:

Definitions.
700.450. As used in sections 700.450 to 700.470, the following terms shall mean:

(1) “Commission”, the public service commission;

(2) “Dealer”, any person, including, but not limited to, real estate brokers and salespersons, other than a manufacturer, who sells or offers for sale four or more manufactured homes in any consecutive twelve-month period;

(3) “Manufactured home”, a factory-built structure or structures which, in the traveling mode, is eight body feet or more in width or forty body feet or more in length, or, when erected on site, contains three hundred twenty or more square feet, equipped with the necessary service connections and made so as to be readily movable as a unit or units on its or their own running gear and designed to be used as a dwelling unit or units with or without a permanent foundation. The phrase “without a permanent foundation” indicates that the support system is constructed with the intent that the manufactured home placed thereon may be moved from time to time at the convenience of the owner;

(4) “Manufacturer”, any person who manufactures manufactured homes, including persons who engage in importing manufactured homes for resale;

(5) “Person”, any individual, partnership, corporation or other legal entity.

(L. 1985 S.B. 152 § 700.200)
Effective 12-31-85

import · December 25, 2002, 8:50pm

Re: Right attitude! - Posted by Larry H . MO

Posted by Larry H . MO on December 25, 2002 at 21:50:30:

John M.
AMEN!!! just wondering if you are doing lonnie deals or not. Are you from MO? I say do them and turn it into you acccountant and not worry about it.As long as uncle sam gets his 75% no problem. Right or wrong?

import · December 25, 2002, 7:01pm

Re: URL for your quote? - Posted by DanielMO

Posted by DanielMO on December 25, 2002 at 20:01:44:

Can you post your URL you used for this quoted section of the Public Service Commission? I can’t find it.

Thanks–

import · December 25, 2002, 7:23pm

More info on MO Stats. - Posted by John Merchant

Posted by John Merchant on December 25, 2002 at 20:23:01:

If you’ll find MO statutes, on Google, or some other search engine, then at the Statute site, type in Section 700.450, as per the following, you’ll be looking at the statute itself.

And a word about the “any person”…this is a clue that you might do 3 in your own name, then use corporation A to do 3, then corp. B to do 3, etc…since no one “person” is doing “4 or more”, it would be my position that NO dealer license would be required. Remember, a corp or LLC is a legal person and you can create more such “persons” as often as necessary.

Definitions.
700.450. As used in sections 700.450 to 700.470, the following terms shall mean:

(1) “Commission”, the public service commission;

(2) “Dealer”, any person, including, but not limited to, real estate brokers and salespersons, other than a manufacturer, who sells or offers for sale four or more manufactured homes in any consecutive twelve-month period;

(3) “Manufactured home”, a factory-built structure or structures which, in the traveling mode, is eight body feet or more in width or forty body feet or more in length, or, when erected on site, contains three hundred twenty or more square feet, equipped with the necessary service connections and made so as to be readily movable as a unit or units on its or their own running gear and designed to be used as a dwelling unit or units with or without a permanent foundation. The phrase “without a permanent foundation” indicates that the support system is constructed with the intent that the manufactured home placed thereon may be moved from time to time at the convenience of the owner;

(4) “Manufacturer”, any person who manufactures manufactured homes, including persons who engage in importing manufactured homes for resale;

(5) “Person”, any individual, partnership, corporation or other legal entity.

(L. 1985 S.B. 152 § 700.200)
Effective 12-31-85