Posted by Joe Kaiser on July 20, 1999 at 16:04:28:
I think I already made my feelings known here. You can find my response at:
http://www.nothingdown.com/Pages/braindroppings.html
It’s under the link “That’s the fact, Jack.”
Joe
L/O - illegal??? Also a question for Joe Kaiser - Posted by Steve
Posted by Steve on July 20, 1999 at 15:40:30:
Hi,
I have been reading this board for some time. I am planning to start investing in real estate soon. Like many others I need to get some quick money first. Therefore, I was considering lease options. I liked everything I read on this site, but then I stumbled on John T. Reed’s site, where he completely says that lease options are immoral, unethical and almost illegal.
His article on lease options is at http://www.johntreed.com/leaseoption.html. I would greatly appreciate if someone knowlegeable about lease options (someone who is doing them on regular basis) would read that article and tell me if it’s true or not. If possible please be specific about his facts. I just would like to know what is wrong with every point he makes, or is he right?
Another article is about Joe Kaiser’s lease option course. It’s at http://www.johntreed.com/Kaiserarticle.html. I would love to hear from Joe about this article. Also anyone who is using his technique would be good to hear from.
Reed’s articles are very discouraging about getting into real estate. Could someone give me more info about him? Is he worth listening to?
Any response is greatly appreciated.
Re: L/O - illegal??? Also a question for Joe Kaiser - Posted by Rob FL
Posted by Rob FL on July 20, 1999 at 19:58:15:
John T. Reed claims to be a knowledgeable real estate guru yet the only property he has owned since 1992 is his own home. He gives a list of every property he has ever owned and it is I believe only 13 properties. Several of which were homes he lived in. He then goes in a long drawn out explanation trying to justify why he can still be an expert even though he has only owned a handful of properties. There many people on this board who have bought, sold, or controlled more properties just this year than John Reed has in the last 30 years. You be the judge as to who knows what they are talking about.
Re: L/O - illegal READ THE LAST LINE!! - Posted by Bill Gatten
Posted by Bill Gatten on July 20, 1999 at 18:42:32:
I think the last line of Mr. Reeds’s article explains it all:
Quote: “I cannot give you the whole picture here because I am in business to sell this information, not give it away. To get all the details on lease options, you should read my special report, which is only $29.95. Hell, given the astronomical prices they charge, the other lease-option gurus probably expect you to tip them more than that.”
In all candor, I have not seen one of the “gurus” he mentions (humbly including myself) who post here on CRE who is not willing to give their knowledge and experience away absolutley FOR FREE to anyone who would but ask.
I personally spend 2-3 hours per-day answering questions and proffering what little knowledge and advice I’m fortunate enough to have accumulated over the years… for free…the same as does Claude Diamond, Joe Kaiser, Bill Bronchik, and all those other “lot smarter’n me” folks whose names escape me at the moment.
I’m not a L/O proponent per se; but to make the assertion this mal-informed gumball does, is preposterous! Violating a Due on Sale Clause is ‘illegal’ in the same sense that tearing the tag off your mattress is, for crying out loud! The Doctrine of Form over Substance’s converting a Lease Option to a Land Contract is ridiculous: and even if that were true…what the h*** difference could that make to anyone? The advantages and disadvantages are pretty much the same; and neither one changes the tax picture or the lender’s posture in any way whatsoever!
Pardon my language, but dagnabbit this guy s me off!! The red Sc**-****fling *erk!! (And I mean that in a good way)
Bill Gatten
Re: L/O - illegal??? Also a question for Joe Kaiser - Posted by Russ Sims
Posted by Russ Sims on July 20, 1999 at 16:25:37:
My guess is that at the source of Mr. Reed’s criticsm over lease/options is the fact that HE didn’t conceive of the idea and make money from it and he resents those who do.
As to his accusation that L/O money is “dirty” money: That is an absolutely unquestionably absurd idea! It’s based on the assumtion that we take advantage of tenants. Okay, here’s how I take advantage of my tenant/buyers. When I get a home under contract I find a tenant/buyer that most mortgage companies wouldn’t get within a country mile of. I put them into a nice pretty home that they may think of as thiers. I’ve had them literally cry with joy when I hand over the keys.This is of course after I cleverally conciel my devil horns under a hat. I take them to a wonderfully adept creative mortgage broker and get them pre qualified for the eventual loan. The mortgage broker tells them that they’ll have to jump through a few hoops before financing can happen, so the tenant knows exactly what to do in the coming months to get their ducks in a row. At 6 months I require the tenant to be reviewed by the broker. This is a checkup to see how things are improving. If the tenant’s lease term expires and they still can’t exercise the option, I will most likely give them more time if I know they’re serious about buying. If my time has run out with the original seller, I’ll try to negotiate for an extension. In short, I do everything I can to help the tenant purchase. If they still can’t purchase, well, then as Claude Diamond says, who’s fault is that? What Reed completely negates is that this tenant/buyer has been living in a home they’ve considered theirs for the term of the lease.Yes, they’ve lost a few thousand dollars, but for a few years they’ve enjoyed the benefits of home ownership.That’s more than any Realtor or mortgage broker could have done for them.
Lease/option money “dirty” money? It’s just the opposite. You help a seller out of a huge problem, you help someone realize the American Dream of home ownership (someone who probaly couldn’t do it without your help), and you are paid handsomly for your efforts. Gotta go sharpen my devil horns…
Re: L/O - illegal??? Also a question for Joe Kaiser - Posted by Marvin
Posted by Marvin on July 20, 1999 at 16:05:38:
www.creonline.com/legal/legal-05.htm
www.nothingdown.com/Pages/braindropping_5.html