Posted by Rob on January 23, 2003 at 01:56:27:
This is from a past CRE discussion about the local boys in the bay area. Are they real? Take this anyway you like, believe it, or not! It is really up to you.
>Ron:
>You’re right again! We do need people that will speak their mind, and weed out the crooks. We always need the one that will speak out loud. This is America, where everyone can speak out. We have a right to express our opinions!
>Curious, Since you have been around for so long, Can you tell me why I don’t see the Becks, Racine, JTR, (and I have never seen you in the early 90’s there) at the auctions buying, instead just teaching, and preaching? They are full of informations, and I am sure they have the money. Why not buy? They could have made tons of money buying way below market, at the low times too. They could have been Muti-Millionaires by now. Why didn’t they do it??? You see it is easy to preach, but to take the action is another story.
>I will confront you when I see you are the BAWB. What did you think of Bruce Norris, who is on the BS lists of JRT? Why did Michael invited him to speak at the WB. Shouldn’t he be boycotted? Norris even said that he would pay to go to Legrand’s bootcamp. (another BS gurus on the list). Note that Norris charges 5K & up for his bootcamp. Oh, BTW, Norris is only a high school graduate, so should he be charging people this price.
>Sorry, I look at " RESULTS ", not what others read, say, or their opinions. And yes, we should be doing our research, like the title search at the foreclosure auctions, right Ron?
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>Rob–(CA)-----------
>Rob–(CA)-----------
>Well, not everybody wants to get rich with real estate. Or at least after doing it a while they don’t want to do it.
>You ask “Can you tell me why I don’t see the Becks, Racine, JTR, (and I have never seen you in the early 90’s there) at the auctions buying… .” John Beck bought a lot of properties here in Oakland in the 1970s and early 1980s. However, he found out that doing property management was not his strength, particularly in the “ghetto properties,” as he and his wife call them. When the real estate market here went down in the mid 1980s, he sold out what he had. He had lots of properties with small equities above the loans. If he had managed those properties well and still owned them, he would be a multimillionaire. Instead, he did real estate seminars and some investing in tax sales properties. He used to have filecabinets full of deeds for vacant land in AZ, NM, and other places, most of which he sold off. He just did not want to do property management.
>Warren Racine? I don’t know much about him. I have done a small amount of work researching his name in Santa Clara County, where he is located. I can find no sign that he has ever bought a foreclosure property in his life–certainly not in his name, anyway. I suspect that he may have, as a real estate licensee, helped some clients buy properties as REOs from lenders after the foreclosure. Perhaps he has helped people buy foreclosures at auction sale, but I am speculating on that, with no solid evidence, just things he has said. I started to read his book “Foreclosures–the good, the bad, and the Terrific” and found it unreadable. It was so bad, I just stopped looking at it.
>JTR or Jack Reed, was an more traditional investor who had a couple of apartment complexes in TX when the Oil Patch Depression occurred. He says that his properties declined greatly in rents and value, so much so that he deeded them back to the lenders. Since then he apparently has not been investing in real estate. I think that he may be embarrassed or chagrined at his loss or something like that. Had he waited a few years until the TX market started turning around then plunged back in with his knowledge, he could have done very well, I think. He has been running his publishing business: a real estate investing newsletter, books, special reports, some tape sets; plus, more recently, books on coaching youth sports, which he did with his sons and their teams. Apparently he does very well with that business and enjoys it, so why bother to mess wtih real estate?
>I have always been, as Jack Reed expresses it, “undercapitalized.” I quit work and went into real estate investing full time. Probably before I should have. I managed to survive for a long time, but never really thrived. I made many mistakes. I’m not really much of a business-oriented person. In the mid 1990s I had some bad financial setbacks and became depressed and got a job to pay my bills. I held the properties that I had, mostly, and for the past three years or so, I have acquired some more properties. Most recently I have acquired 7 rent houses in the state of OK and may pick up some more this coming year. I am close to supporting myself with the rental houses. Once I can finish fixing up some houses there and a couple here in CA, and do some rent raising, I will be going out on my own again.
>I have done seminars and classes and written material on real estate investing. I enjoy thinking about real estate investing and figuring out how it works. Then teaching it. I do the investing some, but not with the joy that some people seem to get out of it. I like teaching and helping people. I don’t like negotiating, pushing for lots of money. I want enough to pay my legitimate bills, but don’t feel a need to pile up more money than I need. Some people seem to have that need, not me.
>I took a one-day seminar from Norris and think he is good. You will note that Jack Reed says he does not like the high-priced bootcamp. Well, I argue that Jack is probably wrong on that one. Norris makes many deals every year. He makes lots of money. I understand that he continues to make money during the week that he does his bootcamp, continuing a lot of his ordinary activities but emphasizing the foreclosure stuff and explaining what he is doing, teaching the “students” right their in his office. If so, I would expect that he makes somewhat less money because of the distraction of the teaching. Let’s say he makes one deal less. That might represent $20K to $30K less profit for him that year. So, charging five persons $5 K for the training seems to me to be justifiable. Jack still disagrees with me, after I sent him my analysis.
>I first listened to some LeGrand audio materials last month and was impressed by him. He seems to have done many deals, to know what he is doing, and is a pretty good teacher. I have some of his written materials and have not gotten to them yet, maybe after the first of the year.
>It seems to me that one should do what one enjoys doing and then try to figure out how to maximize one’s returns to earn a living or perhaps more. It seems to me that most of the people who are most successful in real estate investing enjoy the activities as well as the profits. Those who don’t enjoy the activities drop out, even if they were making good money. That is why many people never really get going with real estate invseting, in my opinion. They are drawn to it by the thoughts of much money. Once they start finding out the effort it takes, they are not much attracted to it. So they quit.
>I think the nice thing is that there are so many different ways to make money with real estate, so a person can fashion a strategy that is personally enjoyable and thus continue in it to financial success. This is pretty much what I say in my “beginners success” post here on the main board of the CREONLINE.COM website. So many people do not seem to take the time to try to understand the varieties of real estate experience, and undestand themselves, well enough to figure out where they could fit into real estate. Even at that, some people probably wouldn’t enjoy real estate investing enough to do it. They just would not find a niche that fits.
>Good Investing**Ron Starr
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> Reply to: Re: Way to Go, Ron, BUT… posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on December 27, 2002 at 16:24:22:
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>Well, not everybody wants to get rich with real estate. Or at least after doing it a while they don’t want to do it.
> >>Correct, not everybody wants to get rich for it, but there are many that walk into it, and don’t know what happened. Some stress financial freedom, and that is what RK stresses. Ron, you have to see why some of the 40 theives, are still at it, because they don’t have any passive income. They might make a big chunk, but that is it.
>You ask “Can you tell me why I don’t see the Becks, Racine, JTR, (and I have never seen you in the early 90’s there) at the auctions buying… .” John Beck bought a lot of properties here in Oakland in the 1970s and early 1980s. However, he found out that doing property management was not his strength, particularly in the “ghetto properties,” as he and his wife call them. When the real estate market here went down in the mid 1980s, he sold out what he had. He had lots of properties with small equities above the loans. If he had managed those properties well and still owned them, he would be a multimillionaire. Instead, he did real estate seminars and some investing in tax sales properties. He used to have filecabinets full of deeds for vacant land in AZ, NM, and other places, most of which he sold off. He just did not want to do property management.
> >>At the Auctions, we highly respect J.Beck’s knowledge, but in the auctions, it takes a different type of animal to play, and that is what many here don’t realize. Think about it. Can you just put up a 100K-400K without realize what is inside the house? In theory, it make sense, but that kind of money is a lot of money, that many cannot imagine. We are talking about all cash now, not later, or let me think about it. Believe me, folks. These Pro’s do lose money like every busniesses. Joe Giraldo told me one time. You do enough of these, and you will get a few bad one too. This is coming from a Multi-Millionaire. (Ron knows who I am talking about)
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>Warren Racine? I don’t know much about him. I have done a small amount of work researching his name in Santa Clara County, where he is located. I can find no sign that he has ever bought a foreclosure property in his life–certainly not in his name, anyway. I suspect that he may have, as a real estate licensee, helped some clients buy properties as REOs from lenders after the foreclosure. Perhaps he has helped people buy foreclosures at auction sale, but I am speculating on that, with no solid evidence, just things he has said. I started to read his book “Foreclosures–the good, the bad, and the Terrific” and found it unreadable. It was so bad, I just stopped looking at it.
> >>Racine, I have seen him many time with his class, in which he charges up to 100.00 for a few hours. I have never, ever seen him there. Of course, he think we are the scums of the earth. Well, anyway, he along with Beck still writes for the Intercity Express. I think he has a Broker license. I really don’t there is any success with him, except that he is a speaker at the investment clubs (which you sometime speak too), and his classes in the Bay area, and LA.
>JTR or Jack Reed, was an more traditional investor who had a couple of apartment complexes in TX when the Oil Patch Depression occurred. He says that his properties declined greatly in rents and value, so much so that he deeded them back to the lenders. Since then he apparently has not been investing in real estate. I think that he may be embarrassed or chagrined at his loss or something like that. Had he waited a few years until the TX market started turning around then plunged back in with his knowledge, he could have done very well, I think. He has been running his publishing business: a real estate investing newsletter, books, special reports, some tape sets; plus, more recently, books on coaching youth sports, which he did with his sons and their teams. Apparently he does very well with that business and enjoys it, so why bother to mess wtih real estate?
> >>Gee Whiz, How come he don’t tell everyone on his website this, because that would sway many people away from his opinions. At least, RK is up front about it. BTW, what is he pitching his baseball, and football courses, with his real estate. I mean that is others businesses mixing with others. How is that possible?
>On his rating system, there is good, and bad. I agreed, and disagreed, but that is my opinions too. I understand his game, tell people the good, bad, and ugly, and hoping that they will buy your materials. My friend took a course from Robert Bruss, who is very, very good teacher (Ron Know this), and well respected. Bruss told him that selling just monthly newsletter, is all he need. That is enough from him to make a living. Wow, he must be doing really good.
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>I have always been, as Jack Reed expresses it, “undercapitalized.” I quit work and went into real estate investing full time. Probably before I should have. I managed to survive for a long time, but never really thrived. I made many mistakes. I’m not really much of a business-oriented person. In the mid 1990s I had some bad financial setbacks and became depressed and got a job to pay my bills. I held the properties that I had, mostly, and for the past three years or so, I have acquired some more properties. Most recently I have acquired 7 rent houses in the state of OK and may pick up some more this coming year. I am close to supporting myself with the rental houses. Once I can finish fixing up some houses there and a couple here in CA, and do some rent raising, I will be going out on my own again.
>I have done seminars and classes and written material on real estate investing. I enjoy thinking about real estate investing and figuring out how it works. Then teaching it. I do the investing some, but not with the joy that some people seem to get out of it. I like teaching and helping people. I don’t like negotiating, pushing for lots of money. I want enough to pay my legitimate bills, but don’t feel a need to pile up more money than I need. Some people seem to have that need, not me.
> >>Maybe you founded your niche, Ron. It is teaching. That is what I have to say about RDPD. Although, some like it, and others don’t. To me, it is simple, but I found something that I have been looking for. Just by reading this so-called simple book, which was right under my nose. I was doing it right, but doing it wrong too. I just have to change my mindset now. Yes, the book makes me believe in what I was doing is right!
>Also, the book talks about team-work. Look what it did for some of the guys at the auctions, like JMW. Ron, Maybe you should try work as a team, instead of yourself. You can’t hog all the money. Look at the thieves they don’t like each other, but they work with each other to survive, because they know that they will only be killing themselves. Of course, I used to say no to them many time in San Francisco, because it was not necessary.
>I took a one-day seminar from Norris and think he is good. You will note that Jack Reed says he does not like the high-priced bootcamp. Well, I argue that Jack is probably wrong on that one. Norris makes many deals every year. He makes lots of money. I understand that he continues to make money during the week that he does his bootcamp, continuing a lot of his ordinary activities but emphasizing the foreclosure stuff and explaining what he is doing, teaching the “students” right their in his office. If so, I would expect that he makes somewhat less money because of the distraction of the teaching. Let’s say he makes one deal less. That might represent $20K to $30K less profit for him that year. So, charging five persons $5 K for the training seems to me to be justifiable. Jack still disagrees with me, after I sent him my analysis.
> >>Maybe JTR is cheap like you, and me. So spending money don’t make sense. Why??? I can just read a book, no courses, because that cost money too. Yes, but have he ever thought about the one that really need it? Of course, one should do their research, or they are wasting time, and money (That is where JTR comes in sometime…Maybe). Then start calling people crooks, rip-off, or it can’t be done. C’mon, folks, experienced investors will tell you that they went though all the BS without the internet. The internet is god-send, god-giving! Only I wish it was here at my time. This is great to find help with a site like this, by Terry Vaughn, who done a great job, except for the people, who seem to try to hurt CRE. This is a free site, people. C’mon, respect this site. Look at all the freebies, and experienced help you get within your fingertips. These guys/gals are great, to even give you the time and day. Others charges 300-500 an hours.
>On Norris: I learn this from him at the BAWB. Norris told the crowd, I would go to the Legrand’s Bootcamp, because I have brought over 500 houses, but this guy have brought over 1000 houses. I must find out why this guy do double what I am doing. There must be something special about him. He has a point there.
>I first listened to some LeGrand audio materials last month and was impressed by him. He seems to have done many deals, to know what he is doing, and is a pretty good teacher. I have some of his written materials and have not gotten to them yet, maybe after the first of the year.
> >>When I first heard of Legrand, people told me that he is a con-artist. When I got his materials, and listen to it, he is straight up shooter. I really like his style and I can see why he is so good. Here is from a man that is cornered in his life, and choose to change his path, and why not? That is why everyone is here, right?
>It seems to me that one should do what one enjoys doing and then try to figure out how to maximize one’s returns to earn a living or perhaps more. It seems to me that most of the people who are most successful in real estate investing enjoy the activities as well as the profits. Those who don’t enjoy the activities drop out, even if they were making good money. That is why many people never really get going with real estate invseting, in my opinion. They are drawn to it by the thoughts of much money. Once they start finding out the effort it takes, they are not much attracted to it. So they quit.
> >>Money is the main reason, or one of the big reason. I love the game, and I love the way it is played. Money?? Yes, it can change many things in people lives, but having a cashflow, like RK, Legrand will tell you is the KEY to it. Yes, some of you know this, but there are many that is still wondering why I can’t stop working, right? Read the book, Truth, or not, Depends how you see it. T. Robbins: You got to have passion, Ron!
>I think the nice thing is that there are so many different ways to make money with real estate, so a person can fashion a strategy that is personally enjoyable and thus continue in it to financial success. This is pretty much what I say in my “beginners success” post here on the main board of the CREONLINE.COM website. So many people do not seem to take the time to try to understand the varieties of real estate experience, and undestand themselves, well enough to figure out where they could fit into real estate. Even at that, some people probably wouldn’t enjoy real estate investing enough to do it. They just would not find a niche that fits.
> >>This is a truly correct statement! There are so many levels, or choices to work, or do in Real Estate. Cashflows, Buy & Sell, Buy & Hold, Notes, B & H, B & S, creating them, and on, & on, & on…
>I have a friend, who is in the mortgage business, when we started working together. He totally hated it. Now, he is making a min. of 20K to 30K a month, and he still hates it. I am sure he is slow changing his opinions on it now. Although, some don’t like to heard it, RK states that you have to do some kind of business, and yes, it 8 out of the 10 will fail, right? It is a fact! But I never thought of fail once, fail twice, success on the third. That is enough to make you, and that is what many fail to see.
> >>Ron, since you have made such an effort to answer me, I choose to answer you back, so you will understand my view, and help others understand it too.
>I am not a good writer, and this will be my last long posting. Sorry everyone for this.
>Rob (CA)
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