John? or Terry? - Posted by PBoone

Posted by John Behle on October 24, 1998 at 24:43:39:

What you are talking about falls into the category of “Collateral Conversion” that is talked about in detail below. It works great. There is resistance at first, because the people don’t understand it. A confused mind always says no. Once you educated them a little, then you have found or created what I call a “Paper Maker”. You end up with a steady supply of good paper structured perfectly to sell to you. It works well.

We did this with a land developer that was dividing recreational land up into 5 and 10 acre parcels and then selling them for about 15% down on a contract. I restructured how they were doing the contracts so I could get a bigger discount and began buying their whole portfolio. This was nice, because I knew about the paper and had it available for trade as much as 2-3 weeks before I had to fund it. That gave me enough time to actually trade it into a property before I needed any cash. The cash then came out of the refinance of the property.

John? or Terry? - Posted by PBoone

Posted by PBoone on October 21, 1998 at 13:29:35:

Thank you for this board to the both of you … Also JP and the crew @ Creonline
Heres my question:
I understand the basics of paper (Calculating yield, Discounting, Basic TVM) Which course in the Creonline books and courses section would the two of you recommend as a “next step” Perferably written by John or Terry.

Which One? - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on October 22, 1998 at 16:09:30:

I haven’t seen Terry’s course yet, but have heard many good things about it. Knowing Terry and his background and with the feedback I’ve had, I would recommend it highly. Expecially because Terry is “like minded”. We have somewhat similar approaches. Most of the other material and approaches out there are just teaching you to broker notes as a job.

Brokering notes is just a high paying job. Investing in notes is both a job and an investment. All the benefits with 100 times the upside potential.

Most of the other courses out there would be like comparing Tom Hopkins to William Nickerson. One is a fabulous trainer on how to make greater commissions. The other is a fabulous trainer on how to make 100 times as much buying, selling, trading and improving properties. There are only a handful of “Paper” courses that actually teach it as an investment. Both Terry and I approach it that way.

I can’t compare since I haven’t seen Terry’s course, but my course is geared towards paper as an investment, while at the same time making at least as much money up front as those that are “flipping” notes. There is an emphasis on high yield paper techniques by both creating and improving paper. The improving paper aspect is very rare. Only a couple people in this industry even attempt to teach it. That isn’t because it is too hard, just advanced. It just sounds so easy to hear about “flipping” notes, which is why it is taught.

Some of the emphasis on creating “Bird dogs” is because it is a way to start, but some of it is also because they want you to find notes for them. It’s also a lot harder job as an instructor to teach you to be independent.

I wrote The “Paper Game” back in 1982 and it was highly advanced. I then expanded on many of the areas with the books “Mortgage Magic” and “Creative Paper Formulas”. The course is still more advanced than anything out there, but is still simple enought that someone understanding the basics of discounting and what a note is can fully benefit.

My course covers financing notes. How to work with and cultivate private investors and banking relationships to finance notes 100-150% and still have a positive cash flow. Particularly in the “bootcamp” video tapes. The 5 day training was the first on the subject of discounted paper and went way beyond the others. Past and present. I just never charged $7,000 for the bootcamp. Sometimes in this world you can buy a Ferrari for less than a Yugo.

If anyone wants comments from students and what they learned, email me and I’ll send a few pages worth or a few hundred if that helps.

Re: John? or Terry? - Posted by phil fernandez

Posted by phil fernandez on October 22, 1998 at 14:36:09:

I have Paper Into Gold by Terry. I recommend it very highly.

John? or Terry? - what a question! - Posted by Terry Vaughan

Posted by Terry Vaughan on October 22, 1998 at 13:31:27:


Many of the great paper ideas I learned over the last 20+ years, came from John Behle. There isn’t a bad selection with anything he puts out.

My course, “Paper Into Gold” is different than a lot out there in that it is designed to help you look at notes as “tools”. Any one can “flip” notes, but using them to augment a transaction is where the real skill comes in. Once you get to the level where, like John teaches, you take notes apart and put them back together again to improve the deal or make it happen - that’s the level where you will have little competition and will make bigger profits in your deals.

My answer would be, go to the descriptions of the courses in the catalogue section - then BUY THEM ALL! I have thousands of dollars invested in books and courses I have bought over the years. All of them have paid for themselves many many times over!


Already Know a Handful of Ways to Improve Paper - Posted by Marvin Seawood

Posted by Marvin Seawood on October 22, 1998 at 16:29:19:

John - How many ways do you teach in your bootcamp

video course? - Marvin

Geeeez, Terry… - Posted by J.P. Vaughan

Posted by J.P. Vaughan on October 22, 1998 at 14:45:56:


In case you can’t afford to buy ALL the paper material
offered, here’s my 2 cents.

John’s “Paper Game Trilogy” is a classic. HOWEVER, to
get the full benefit from that material, you MUST have
a very solid foundation in understanding the basics.
If you feel solid, then you’ll be blown away by the

If you need a more solid foundation, Terry’s “Paper
Into Gold” will lay that foundation for you. It also
goes into more advanced topics, but not to the extent
of John’s material.

Either course is excellent. You may also want to
consider John’s 5-Day Video Training, which starts by
covering the basics and then goes on to more advanced
topics. With 28 hours of video, this course is an
outstanding value for the price.

Gee, I guess I’m starting to sound like Terry :wink:

In any event, I hope this helps.


P.S. To get the best of both worlds for one low price,
come to our convention, where both John and Terry will
be teaching! I will post all the details soon.

About a hundred or so. - Posted by John Behle

Posted by John Behle on October 22, 1998 at 17:51:18:

One time I detailed over 117 ways to improve paper. I illustrate most of those in the videos. Many are also in the Paper Game Trilogy, but are spread throughout and not approached in the more orderly, categorized approach of the bootcamp. I’m just now starting to number and label them as in Technique 1, 2, 3, etc. It may be a while because I have two other projects before that.

One is finishing a book solely on “Finding Paper” where I have categorized and numbered over a hundred sources. The other is a book on “Risk Management” that covers all of the potential risks and how to prevent or mitigate them. In the meantime, risks are discussed throughout the bootcamp. I also highly recommend Lorelei Stevens book “Lorelei’s Legal Lessons.” It’s really the only publication going into detail on the risks at the moment.

As far as finding paper, that material is included in both the videos and the “Millions of Mortgages in Minutes” audio set, it just isn’t structured like I would like it. I can’t really recommend any other materials on finding paper at the moment. Maybe Terry can. Most of what is out there is geared towards mailers and research at the Recorder’s office, which are on the least productive end of the scale.

WAIT, can’t forget Lisa Moren’s material on “Working with Realtors”. I’ve heard it is excellent and goes right along with my approach. Lisa and John attended my bootcamp as they first entered the business. I asked Lisa about her material and presentation one time and she said “Oh, it’s just your material John”. Knowing Lisa, I’m sure she has refined, organized and expanded on it well. I’ve heard good things about it - especially in the area of speaking to Realtors and how to present yourself.

Now thats the one. - Posted by PBoone

Posted by PBoone on October 22, 1998 at 14:57:51:

That last ps statement is intersting. To hear John and Terry speak would certainly be a value I look forward to this one.

Re: John, you mention above… - Posted by Eduardo (OR)

Posted by Eduardo (OR) on October 23, 1998 at 14:45:40:

Hi John–

You mention above your project, a book on “Finding Paper.” I have always wondered about this idea: Working with (educating) contractors, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc., to take paper from cash-poor property owners during slow work season in order to keep busy (not little tiny jobs or great big jobs, but mom and pop repairs in the $1,000-$10,000 range). Seems to me a relatively simple routine might be worked out to take secured paper and then sell it to an investor. I’ve mentioned the concept once or twice to contractors; they’ve nodded their heads but not responded. The drawback may be the educational effort involved. What do you think? Any merit to this idea? --Eduardo