Posted by Brent_IL on January 27, 2002 at 06:44:40:
nt
I have so much trouble dealing with men - Posted by Sharon
Posted by Sharon on January 24, 2002 at 10:42:13:
I’ve been buying and selling real estate for quite a while, and lately I have really been getting sick and tired of other investors disrespecting me because I am a woman. They act like because I am a woman, I must be an airhead that cannot think for herself. On top of that, they are always staring at my breasts. I hate that.
On the other hand… - Posted by GL(ON)
Posted by GL(ON) on January 25, 2002 at 11:10:09:
On the other hand I have known female RE agents and investors who were real witches with a capital B if you get my drift.
Some were simply incompetents who would tell you anything that came into their heads because they knew they would never get called on the carpet for it. Others were out and out crooks.
They pulled dirty tricks all the time that would have earned them a lawsuit, a punch in the nose or worse if they had been men. But they got away with murder because they were women. Then they turned around and blamed all their problems (which they had created) on men.
If your neck of the woods has similar bimbos and viragos no wonder the other investors are leery of women.
Close your shirt, grow up and get over it! NT - Posted by PBoone
Posted by PBoone on January 25, 2002 at 10:39:27:
.
Lemonading? - Laugh all the way to the bank - Posted by John Behle
Posted by John Behle on January 24, 2002 at 22:13:52:
In real estate exchanging, we have a term called “lemondading” that stems from the old addage of “when life gives you a lemon - add sugar - to create lemondade”.
Two of my best real estate agents I have ever had work for me had to deal with discrimination. Marlin was a black medical student and part time real estate agent. This powerhouse sold more real estate part time than most full time agents and he had discrimination to deal with. In his state, he was one of only two among several thousand agents.
Tammy was a 21 year old beautiful blonde. She was highly looked down upon (and looked at) by those she dealt with. In the field of investment real estate, she was an extreme minority. Yet, with the training I gave her, she could eat any other agents for lunch.
I believe her training gave her confidence. That is a huge plus. She didn’t seem to care a whole lot about the discrimination. I think that is a big advantage. Agents huff and puff and try to put on a show for each other and sometimes the one that wins is the one that cares the least about that nonsense.
I didn’t have those challenges, but was quite young when I began. I went full time into real estate and investing at 21, though I had bought some property before that. Sometimes I nearly bit my tongue off as some of the egotistical agents, sellers and brokers would strut around.
I learned the best thing to do at first was to ignore their ego. But the interesting thing with many of them is they won’t let you ignore it. They demand their “respect” and expect you to admire, praise and even worship them in a way. Yah, whatever.
To me the important thing is getting the deal. I actually began to enjoy their strutting and “positioning”. To stroke their egos in some ways becomes an advantage. It can un-nerve them and dis-arm them. Their over-blown emotional needs have been met and they can actually turn around and help you get the deal done - which is all that really matters to me.
I can gloat later. I can bite my tongue when their ignorance manifests and then gently explain my offer or how the deal is structured so as not to hold the mirror up to their face too closely. Let them go away with their emotional cup full and I’ll go away with the financial cup full.
Now, of course it doesn’t work with all and some I will just learn to avoid. Sometimes the most challenging part of the transaction is educating an agent with an overblown ego without bruising their bravado.
One deal Tammy did stands out in my mind. It was a “paper trade” deal where we were using notes as collateral to buy a property. The agent on the other end had just received his CCIM designation and was as much full of himself over it as anyone I’ve ever seen. Tammy bought into the intimidation on this deal a little, so I helped her in the offer presentation. She made the mistake of handing him the offer to read. Usually we present it in an orderly presentation, but she slipped up as he “took” it from her hands.
I then spent the next 45 minutes trying to tactfully explain to this self professed genius that he did not even read the offer right. A real challenge, but not impossible.
I think confidence is crucial. Knowledge is power and can give you a big edge. Someone who is dealing with ego needs, discrimination, etc. is operating from emotion. Someone who is emotionally invested in a deal has a VERY LARGE disadvantage when it comes to negotiation. If you approach it properly - without emotion - and even learn to use their emotions, it can give you a big edge. At the least, that edge will offset much of the disadvantage of their discrimination. Much of the time, it can actually turn to your advantage. Study, learn, grow in confidence, let them be idiots if they want - and laugh all the way to the bank.
Re: I have so much trouble dealing with men - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on January 24, 2002 at 22:05:08:
Sharon---------------
This is the problem we have since not many babies are breast-fed these days. The men just did not get enough mother’s milk as infants. When they look at you, they start thinking “Hmm, breakfast.”
I’m sorry I don’t have anything to suggest. I don’t think the men will change much. Whether you can change your approach so that you get more of what you want, I don’t know.
I wonder if you could find some investment approach that allowed you to interact with the same men on regular basis. Then you would select the ones which whom you feel comfortable to repeatedly deal with. Maybe in commercial real estate it would be better?
Good InvestingRon Starr******
Demand Respect… - Posted by Dave I.
Posted by Dave I. on January 24, 2002 at 21:25:14:
I hate to admit it, but men can be pigs. I don’t know if you can keep a man from staring at you. If you think they are not, they probably are. All I can say is to demand the respect that you deserve. Remember why you are there. When you catch a man making a sly remark or staring at a part of your body other than your face, say “So, what is the absolute lowest price you will take for your property?” Get their attention…Just don’t accept being talked down to. If I were you, I would use being a woman to your advantage. Personally, I tend to trust women more than I do men. I would rather deal with a female real estate agent or car salesperson than I would a man. My wife used to be a commissioned salesperson and would constantly beat her fellow male salespeople by far. They hated the thought that a woman was beating them at what they thought was “their game.” Be proud of being a woman with the initiative to go out there in the cold, hard world and make things happen. Don’t let yourself be intimidated by men…catch them off guard and make solid offers. You will get the respect you deserve…don’t accept anything less. Good Luck… Dave
I feel your pain - Posted by Potash
Posted by Potash on January 24, 2002 at 20:38:41:
no, actually not. I don’t really care about you trival drama queen problem. In case you missed the point, I’ll put it in the form of a question. Why do you care what other investor’s think of you?
Re: I have so much trouble dealing with men - Posted by Russ_CA2
Posted by Russ_CA2 on January 24, 2002 at 20:23:27:
Sharon, please. IF what you are lamenting is true, I’d say that the fish you attract are lured by the bait you cast. Look in the mirror to see where the real problem begins.
Re: I have so much trouble dealing with men - Posted by Bryan in Cali
Posted by Bryan in Cali on January 24, 2002 at 19:48:20:
It seems to me that a lot of “professional” women’s suits and dresses are cut to reveal a woman’s features-they’re more for the male boss than the female professional. Be careful when you buy work attire. That should help a lot with the staring.
Re: I have so much trouble dealing with men - Posted by Al Miller
Posted by Al Miller on January 24, 2002 at 16:43:08:
I dont mean this in a negative way but when dealing in real estate as an INVESTOR you have to be..... DUMB LIKE A FOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you want to come across for Egos sake like a genius
you may never get the great deals out there.
After and during making fantastic deals I NEVER-NEVER-
NEVER make the other person feel anything but they are
the smart person in the equation and I am relaying on
their wisdom.
The moment you reveal what you know you are dead.
why? Because when you need to be the smart one people
recognize it and they may know their position may not
be as great as they thought it was.
In other words-Don`t BLOW yourself off. Because you
have needs to be smart or cool or equal.
Learn to be a PRO!!!
Re: I have so much trouble dealing with men - Posted by Reverse discrimination
Posted by Reverse discrimination on January 24, 2002 at 15:46:59:
Sharon,
It sounds as though you have a confidence problem you need to work on. I’m really tired of hearing about the need for more Affirmative Action, Welfare, Equal Rights etc. If you have what it takes you will succeed.
So stop your whining and get to work
The phony jozey - Posted by jozey
Posted by jozey on January 24, 2002 at 13:23:26:
this is the name of the holder of the phony screen nameReturn-Path:
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What makes you think it’s because you are a woman? - Posted by GL(ON)
Posted by GL(ON) on January 24, 2002 at 13:14:44:
I’m a man and I get disrespect all the time. People insulting my intellegence, telling me lies , trying to talk me into deals that a baby could see through in 10 seconds, threatening me with laws that don’t exist,making up better offers that make no sense etc. etc. etc.
On the other hand no one stares at my figure. Do you think my size 46 pants make me look fat LOL.
Re: I have so much trouble dealing with men - Posted by diana
Posted by diana on January 24, 2002 at 12:36:03:
It’s funny you posted this subject. I recently went to look at a house for a possible purchase. I was very uncomfortable with the man who showed it. He was a breast talker also. I don’t think he looked me in the eye once!
At one point I was walking away from him and turned around quickly and sure enough his eyes were right on my rearside.
I wish I were confident enough to have used it to my advantage but instead I couldn’t get out quick enough.
It got me to thinking about how safe I was while going out on my own to view properties. I have felt uncomfortable more than once. (Like the time a guy walked me through a preforclosure and showed me his bedroom painted in black and full of skulls and crossbones!)
I now make sure I let someone in my family know what address I will be at. In some cases I have even told my teenage daughter that if she doesn’t here from me in 45 minutes call the cops.
Diana
I agree with JT - Posted by Valerie PA
Posted by Valerie PA on January 24, 2002 at 12:20:31:
Use it to your advantage! When they’re busy looking elsewhere and blowing you off for being a “chick”, swoop in and get the deal. I say use your charms while silently sucking the blood right out of them.
Sorry if I sound vindictive but I just switched to Sanka!
Valerie
Re: I have so much trouble dealing with men - Posted by JT-IN
Posted by JT-IN on January 24, 2002 at 12:10:58:
Sharon:
I have heard this same concern put forth by several other women. Unfortuanately, I do not really have the answer… except to say that, as displayed by the behavior of those you decribe, they are acting in an inferior manner, as opposed to how you are reading them. You should be able to use this to your advantage, and by shear application of the skills that you do possess, run circles around the non-competition that is thinking about somethng else, versus the RE game. This is really a mind over matter issue.
You do understand that Men are the weaker sex… and I am all man! We prove it over-and-over-and-over again!
Just the way that I view things…
JT-IN
Re: I have so much trouble dealing with men - Posted by RJ
Posted by RJ on January 24, 2002 at 11:36:39:
Hang in there Sharon. Have you tried giving them some constructive feedback on how they make you feel? Once you do that, there is no question in their minds that you are a business woman and you expect them to treat you as such. And yes…I am a woman too. Good luck!
BRAVO–I enjoyed the post - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in no CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in no CA) on January 26, 2002 at 15:47:56:
John Behle-------------
Thank you for a very nice post. I hope that this helps Sharon.
And I notice that your response was made in such a way as to be easy for Sharon to accept, in case she had any difficulty doing so. No criticism of her. Just an explaination of what is going on and experiences similar to hers, then suggestions on how to handle the situation.
No wonder you are a good negotiator, you are subtle and smooth. Like a partner of mine, who is a far better negotiator than I.
Good Going Guy!
Good Investing and Good Posting*******Ron Starr
Re: Lemonading? - Laugh all the way to the bank - Posted by Terry (Houston)
Posted by Terry (Houston) on January 25, 2002 at 21:11:56:
WoW!
Super nice post! I agree with Steph, and hope all is well for you and with you. I have missed your posts as well.
Terry (Houston)