Posted by cork horner on April 19, 2010 at 14:26:38:
That’s what I said.
The 1/3 or 1/2 deposit is for custom orders and not a down payment. It is Ca Conractor laws, not mine.
If in doubt about it call them. Many Ca conractors lose their license due to ignorance of the license laws.
As to millions of dollars, so what. Most in the biz any number of years have also.
cork horner
san diego
How to keep the Contractor’s working on project - Posted by James
Posted by James on April 17, 2010 at 01:05:50:
I am having my Kitchen remodeled and the first day, they did a lot. They took everything out, flooring, all the appliances, a wall, carpeting in my Living room, plus all the cabinets. They worked 10hrs.
Next day. They finished taking out the very hard to get up Kitchen flooring plus I paid them a deposit of 1/3 of the total cost of the project (labor mainly). They stayed 2 hrs on day 2. It was Friday, so he said they would do the Electrical on Mon. My feeling was, why couldn’t you do the Electrical TODAY on Friday. I don’t want this project dragging out for too long. It sucks living in a house with Rehab going on. Especially when it is your Kitchen. How do you guys keep your contractor working as hard as they can so they finish fast?
James
Golden Rule© - Posted by James - Michigan Investor
Posted by James - Michigan Investor on April 17, 2010 at 05:05:54:
From Wiki:
The Golden Rule is an ethical code that states one has a right to just treatment, and a responsibility to ensure justice for others. It is also called the ethic of reciprocity. It is arguably the most essential basis for the modern concept of human rights, though it has its critics.[2] A key element of the golden rule is that a person attempting to live by this rule treats all people, not just members of his or her in-group, with consideration. The Golden rule appears to have an evolutionary basis, see Reciprocity (evolution).
It exists in both positive (generally structured in the form of “do to others what you would like to be done to you”) and negative form (structured in the form of “do not do to others what you would not like to be done to you”). While similar, these forms are not strictly the same; they differ in what to do with what you would like to be done to you and the other party would not like to be done upon it. The negative form, known as the Silver Rule does directly not contain this while the positive form can exclude it indirectly with that you would like from others to check if you really like it, which is an example of using the golden rule in a context which makes it self-correcting, as argued in the criticisms section.
From BIBLE (Matthew#22:39): Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
MY Golden Rule: He with the gold…RULES!
I personally like MY way of doing things…don’t pay UNTIL productivity is done (via a well explained and agreed Agreement - including draw on pay).
He with the gold rules…don’t spend it until you get what you want. 1/3 doesn’t sound like a bad amount up front…I’d only go 15% and include some materials…but that’s just me.
Good luck. Get them contractors back in your house!
(hint, don’t pay them anything more and start deducting from the overall amount you agreed to pay them…oh wait, I bet you didn’t put something in a contract that says they needed X number of workers per day and how long that would take and a day-2-day breakdown on schedule…DID YOU?). You’re screwed.
When you don’t have the MONEY bargaining chip…HONEY works better than vinegar. 
James
Everything going good now. - Posted by James
Posted by James on April 29, 2010 at 15:25:39:
I am 2 weeks into my project and all is well for now. Big Structure project done, Skylights project done. Electric done, Next couple days, drywall then flooring then cabinets, then granite countertops, lastly backsplash. So far so good. I have paid 60% so far and project about 60% done.
James
Re: Golden Rule© - Posted by cork horner
Posted by cork horner on April 17, 2010 at 22:32:17:
Are thy licensed? What State.
I am a retired contractor licensed in ca and mn.
Lots of ‘contractors’ get paid ahead, spike more jobs then slow down or disappear.
Check on workers…who are they? employees? Home Depot parking lot? What.
email me if ya want more help.
cork horner
san diego
They were recommended by good friend - Posted by James
Posted by James on April 18, 2010 at 01:38:54:
These guys were recommended by a very close and good friend who is a Structural Engineer and he said they do great work. I am thinking that the reason he could not do the Electrical on Friday is because I had not given him the exact measurements for where the cabinets are going. I went and got those today (Sat). On Monday, I expect a full days work from these guys.
Yes they are Lic, and Insured.
After getting a few answers here I should have altered the contract for Less money upfront and more after productivity. Anyway, I will not give them another dime until the Electrical and the Structure Double 24 inch LVL beams are put up. That is the biggest part of the job. After that, it’s just putting in the new Cabinets, doing the flooring and backsplash and placing in a new window.
James
Re: They were recommended by good friend - Posted by camgere
Posted by camgere on April 18, 2010 at 09:10:43:
This was posted on another board (see website at bottom). A sample contract. You could add a bill of materials and schedule with defined penalties. I’ve noticed contractors tend to use the cheapest crap available and call it industry standard. Stuff they would never use in their own homes because it will need to be repalced soon and at great labor expense.
I kind of agree with most of what James - Michigan Investor said.
Here is some sample contract language
STATEMENT OF WORK
. Contractor will furnish and pay for all labor, equipment, tools, machinery, scaffolding, utilities, consumable supplies, permits, supervision, materials and all taxes necessary to construct and complete the Project, in a first class, workmanlike and substantial manner, the work described in and reasonably inferable from the ?Contract Documents? described in Paragraph 2 (collectively, the ?Work?). Contractor shall perform the Work in strict compliance with the Contract Documents, industry standards, and local trade(s) practices. Contractor understands and agrees that this Agreement, including the Contract Documents, and any other addendum’s included herein or by reference, represent the entire agreement and is intended to be a total-cost contract not-to-exceed the Contract Price. By accepting this Agreement, Contractor warrants that the Scope of Work and Contract Price anticipates any and all circumstances that may arise in performance and the cost incurred for any modification by Contractor to the Work for any reason whatsoever shall be borne solely by the Contractor his heirs and assigns.
CONTRACT DOCUMENTS
. Contractor agrees to complete the Work in strict accordance with the ?Contract Documents? (defined below) and with all requirements of the appropriate Agencies and to the satisfaction of the Owner. The ?Contract Documents? consist of the following, which, together with written modifications made in the manner provided therein and issued subsequent to the execution of the Agreement, form the entire agreement between the parties and shall be collectively referred to herein sometimes as the Contract:
A. This Agreement including, but not limited to, the General Conditions, Scope of Work, Bill of Materials, and any other Exhibits and Riders attached hereto or thereto and which are by this reference incorporated herein;
PERFORMANCE
. Contractor agrees to commence Work hereunder upon acceptance and without delay. Contractor further agrees to proceed diligently and in strict accordance with Contractor?s time schedule (?Schedule?) and directions, and to employ at Contractor?s expense whatever means Contractor deems necessary to meet this Schedule. Contractor shall not commence the Work, order any materials, employ any Subcontractors or enter into any commitments affecting the Project or the property prior to Contractor?s notice to proceed (which can be given only in writing) without Owner?s prior written consent. Contractor acknowledges that it is not entitled to payment for any Work performed unless it has received a written notice to proceed from Contractor.
CONTRACT PRICE AND PAYMENTS
. For the full and strict performance of all of Contractor?s obligations hereunder, and so long as Contractor is not in default under this Agreement, Owner shall pay Contractor the ?Contract Price? in accordance with the terms of Exhibit ?A?. The Contract Price is intended to include all increases in costs, foreseen or unforeseen, including, without limitation, taxes, labor, materials, and transportation costs, all of which are to borne by Contractor. All loss or damage arising from any Work performed under this Agreement through unforeseen or unusual obstructions, difficulties or delays which may be encountered in the prosecution of same, or through the action of the elements, shall be borne by Contractor. The intent of this Agreement is to completely cover the scope of the Work and is to be a ?No Extra? contract. Only the Owner has the authority to authorize extra work. This authorization must be in writing and should Contractor do any work which Owner considers ?extra? without first obtaining such authorization, Contractor does so with the possibility of not receiving payment. Any payment made hereunder prior to completion and acceptance of the completed Work shall not be construed as evidence of acceptance by Owner of any part of Contractor?s Work; nor shall any payment hereunder, without compliance with the provisions of this Agreement by Contractor, be deemed a waiver by Owner of such compliance. Construction in progress shall be subject to inspection and approval by the Agencies and by Owner and its representatives. Progress payments shall be conditioned upon prior inspection and approval of the Work by such Agencies and by Owner and its representatives. PRIOR AND RELATED WORK
.
CONTRACTOR?S RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE WORK
. Contractor acknowledges and agrees that it has the sole and exclusive responsibility for the performance of the Work, including supervising and inspecting the Work to assure compliance with the Contract Documents, construction industry standards and codes, and that Owner?s right to approve and inspect Contractor?s Work imposes no duty on Owner to discover or identity items not in compliance. Any inspection or approval by Owner of the Work shall not be considered or construed as an inspection or approval of conditions not in compliance with the Contract Documents, construction industry standards, or Codes. Contractor shall promptly take all corrective action necessary to bring any defective Work into compliance at its own expense, without an adjustment to the Contract Price.
STORAGE OF MATERIALS
. Contractor shall only be permitted to use the garages of the Unit for storage of materials considered not to be Hazardous Material (as defined herein) upon compliance with the following: such use shall be at Contractor?s own risk and Contractor shall be responsible for all matters relating to or arising out of the storage of such materials including theft and loss pursuant to Paragraph 6 below, and Contractor shall immediately repair all damage of any kind arising out of the use of the garage for storage including, but not limited to, general clean-up, the repainting of walls and patching of drywall, all as directed by and to the satisfaction of Owner Storing of equipment using either gas, diesel fuel, oil or any other oil by-products shall be done only in areas permitted by Owner and such storage shall be, absent other direction from Owner, in permanent vehicular right-of-ways or parkways. Contractor shall not store or park said equipment, or store any gas, diesel fuel, oil or lubricating oil on the Property where any landscaping or planting will be done.
EXTRAS
. This provision is subject to only one exception, and none other: That the Contract Price does not include any labor, materials and equipment furnished by Contractor which are authorized and stated by Owner in writing to be ?Extra? and for which the sum to be paid in addition to the Contract Price is specified in either Owner?s written authorization or Authorization for Extra Work (?AEW?). Owner, at any time during the progress of this Project, may order in writing, additions, changes, or modifications to the Contract Documents, and the value thereof, as mutually agreed, in such written authorization, shall be added to or deducted from the Contract Price, as the case may be. Owner shall at any time have the right to direct Contractor to perform any extra work. Contractor acknowledges that in the event of such extra work the time of completion will remain fixed unless expressly agreed to in writing. In the event that Contractor and Owner cannot arrive at a mutually satisfactory price for the requested extra work, the Owner reserves the right to direct the Contractor, in writing, to proceed with the extra work on a time and material basis.
NOTICES
. All notices or other communications required or permitted hereunder shall be in writing, and shall be delivered or sent, as the case may be, by any of the following methods: (i) personal delivery; (ii) overnight commercial carrier or delivery service; (iii) registered or certified mail (with postage prepaid and return receipt requested); (iv) telecopy/fax; or (v) electronic mail (e-mail). Any such notice or other communication shall be deemed received and effective upon the earlier of (i) if personally delivered, the date of delivery to the address of the party to receive such notice; (ii) if delivered by overnight commercial carrier or delivery service, one day following the receipt of such communication by such carrier or service from the sender, as shown on the sender?s delivery invoice from such carrier or service, as the case may be; (iii) if mailed with postage prepaid, seventy-two (72) hours after delivery to the U.S. Post Office, or when actually received, if sooner; (iv) if given by telecopy/fax, when sent to the correct telecopy/fax number of the party to receive such notice; or (v) if sent via electronic mail, when sent to the correct e-mail address. Any reference herein to the date of receipt, delivery, or giving, as the case may be, of any notice or other communication shall refer to the date such communication becomes effective under the terms of this paragraph. The addresses for purposes of the giving of notices hereunder are set forth on the first page of this Agreement for the Contractor and on the signature page of the Agreement for the Owner. Notice of change of address shall be given by written notice in the manner detailed in this paragraph.
This is the beginning of the scope of work that goes along with it, in addition I try to provide pictures, diagrams, CAD drawings, material list or as much as I can so there is not confusion
Scope of Work
This document represents the Scope of Work (?Scope?) for the project located at:_________________________ in ________________, ____ (?Project?). This document is an addendum to the Agreement for Contract Services (?Agreement?) dated ____________, to which it is attached, by and between _______________________________ (?Owner?) and ________________________________ (?Contractor?) and their respective heirs and/or assigns. Each party agrees to be bound by this Scope of Work pursuant to the covenants and conditions set forth in the Agreement.
Unless a Bill of Materials is attached to this Scope and Agreement, this document shall serve to specify the type, finish, and quality of materials to be used by Contractor in performance of the Agreement. In the event that materials required for performance under this Scope and Agreement are not specified herein, and any such materials are not specified in an attached Bill of Materials, then Contractor shall use his best judgment in selecting materials that are similar in type, finish, and quality to other materials specified herein, consistent with existing materials, or by reference. If there be any question, the Contractor shall seek written instruction from the Owner to clarify.
All work specified in this Scope and Agreement shall be performed by Contractor in a workman-like manner consistent with industry standards and local trade practices. Contractor shall warrant the work performed hereunder for a period of not less than __________________ beyond the date of substantial completion. Any and all defects in workmanship shall be remedied at the sole cost to Contractor to the satisfaction of Owner his heirs and/or assigns.
The finished product should present a turn-key home for Owner, his heirs and/or assigns. Upon acceptance of work by Owner, the home must meet all FHA/VA underwriting requirements.
Re: They were recommended by good friend - Posted by cork horner
Posted by cork horner on April 18, 2010 at 11:01:57:
so, Curtis!
You DO hang out at the best online cre!
c h
Re: Lead, Follow Or just - Posted by Earl Allen Boek
Posted by Earl Allen Boek on April 19, 2010 at 08:27:07:
James:
You got a good referral on your contractor. He’s already started a major project for you, understand unlikely you are the only job he has going and electricians work on their schedules and usually need to be sub-contracted so if you don’t like construction work going on around you, stop contracting for it.
You paid them fair, 1/3 up front is fair, their doing the job, inspect the work as they do it, let them know if you see problems, and just (within reason) leave them alone and let them do it. They usually find ways to make you pay extra when you insist on managing things.
Re: Lead, Follow Or just - Posted by cork horner
Posted by cork horner on April 19, 2010 at 09:50:13:
for the record, IN CAL, “1/3 upfront” is illegal.
After work is started, a draw can be stated in the contract based on arms length negotiation.
cork horner
former general contractor, builder, developer, remodelor and World Citizen.
Re: Lead, Follow Or just - Posted by Earl Allen Boek
Posted by Earl Allen Boek on April 19, 2010 at 14:18:29:
I’m well aware of it. Well aware. 10% down and an increase as soon as more work is completed. As in
a drop of materials. Together 1/3rd down is fair.
Al Boek, Former California B licensed Contractor,
Licensed Real Estate Agent and Licensed Contractor
sales agents with Millions in home improvement projects. When I deliver custom-made vinyl windows
I had 1/2 or work would not begin. Period. So…
Like I said, “1/3 to begin is fair.”