health insurance - Posted by Brenda (OH)

Posted by Tim on July 11, 2007 at 15:35:11:

I’m not going to make this a political discussion, you are certainly entitled to your opinion about the health care system here or anywhere else. However, you might want to work on your reading & thinking skills before you make your observations. Some of your statements don’t make sense, & others are just plain wrong. I have posted a few examples.

“Male and female students both find themselves facing obesity and all
its associated problems here when they never even had to consider
such a thing in their own countries” What does this mean? Are you trying to say that obese people only live in America, or living in America makes you obese, or it’s impossible to become obese in other countries, or what?

“In almost every country
represented in a typical class, ALL citizens are covered by free or low
cost health insurance.” Again, what does this statement mean? It sounds like you might be trying to say that almost every country that is comparable to the US economically has cheap or free health care. Then again, you may be saying that almost every country has free or cheap health care for all citizens.

“For most of the women, it is more dangerous (for both the
mother and the baby) to give birth in this country than in their own.” Are you kidding? Show one reputable study that proves “most” countries have lower infant/mother mortality rates than the US.

“Tony is correct in his assertion that lack of a decent health care system
limits many people from achieving their full potential.” I reread Tony’s post, & nowhere does it say we lack a decent health care system. His post states that peoples fear of the cost of health insurance keeps them in jobs instead of becoming entrepeneurs.

My honest opinion is that our system of payment for health care is flawed. I might even be persuaded to believe some other countries have a better system, but if you don’t communicate your ideas any better verbally than you do in writing, you won’t be the one doing the persuading. Out of the 4 statements I cited, the first 2 don’t make sense, the third isn’t true, & the last misquotes the source. Are you sure you should be teaching people english?

health insurance - Posted by Brenda (OH)

Posted by Brenda (OH) on July 10, 2007 at 19:18:21:

My cobra continuation insurance is running out, and I wonder what strategies folks have used to find health insurance while being self employed.

health insurance (long response) - Posted by Tony Colella

Posted by Tony Colella on July 11, 2007 at 05:49:49:

Great question Brenda and one that we talk about in our boot camp. I personally believe that the fear of not having health insurance is what limits many great minds (or becomes their excuse) from not forging out on their own to create a business or become self employed. I believe this not only limits the investor financially but I believe it is a huge limiting factor for our country.

For me I finally just reached a point where I gained a perspective with health insurance that seemed reasonable and affordable (sound like a Lonnie perspective?).

Steve mentions HSA accounts and although I did not pursue that approach, it sounds like one that needs consideration.

What I did was decide to view health insurance as a fact of life type expense. Just like any expense in life I needed to justify receiving the best money’s worth while finding a way to limit my costs to a reasonable amount.

I looked at my life and realized it was very, very rare that I ever went to a doctor or hospital but I also realized it could happen. I decided that for me (no dependants) all I needed was what I called a catastrophe type plan. If I was injured and needed some minor medical attention or fell sick with normal flu’s or the like, then I would set aside some cash to cover these moments if necessary (necessary meaning if insuring these smaller expenses cost more than the expenses themselves would).

For me I also decided that the true concern I was insuring against was large medical bills. I decided to set aside atleast a years worth of deductibles if not several years in a savings account of my own. This way I had ready cash to cover any expenses necessary before the insurance kicked in. Quite honestly, I probably could do the same with a credit card but one side benefit of this cash savings plan that helped me and my business was the banks would see that cash in the bank for several years and when I financed real estate deals, they often commented on the ready cash I had to help solve problems. It made good financial sense to me and to my lenders.

My first health insurance had a very high deductible (and I wanted higher) but very reasonable monthly payments and a high coverage. I had this plan for several years and never once used it so I cannot say how it would have worked from my experiences.

I later switched to Blue Cross/Blue shield and found a better plan for about the same amount. Please realize that health plans change in price and benefits by state from what I have seen.

This new plan I have had to use twice in the last couple of years, each time for very minor costs which I had thought I would pay for from the deductible. I was pleasantly surprised that this insurance also covered these costs and both times I paid a $15 co pay only.

From what I now understand the high deductible typically applies to things like MRI’s and other similar type expenses I would previously have labled as “catastrophe type expenses.” If I am hurt that bad then I will need to pay for the deductible. So be it. If I am hurt that bad, the cash is already set aside and the rents from my properties will continue to come in. I may have to hire help while I recover but money and credit is there for this type of emergency.

Keep in mind that these deductibles are a bit tricky from what little fine print I read. As I understand from my reading (please someone correct me if I am wrong), the deductibles are by calander year. If I get hurt in Dec 07 and go through my deductible, come Jan 08 I get to pay that deductible again even though it has only been a month. This is the reason to have more than one year’s deductible in savings. You also want cash for meds etc.

By setting aside cash I limited my need to insure small money and lowered my premiums. By setting aside cash I was able to better present myself to banks who were willing to lend me more money on real estate which makes me more money.

Health insurance needed (for me) to be viewed like a busines decision. Once I did that I was able to get the best product for me for my money.

Again, I only know a very little bit about insurance plans etc. and please do not take this as advice to follow without your own investigation. This is what worked for me and may not be what is right for you or anyone else.

I do however believe that anyone considering self employment who has a good, proven business they have tested already for themselves, can make health insurance affordable if they analyze it just like they do any business decision.

For the record, I did not go with the cheapest plan. I went with the one that gave me what I wanted for a good price. Some companies offered lower premiums but I always seemed to find a lower benefit hidden in the small print.

Take the time to do your health insurance “due diligence” and I suspect you can find an affordable and reasonable health insurance plan (and for much, much, much less than your cobra plan).

Tony

HSA - Posted by Steve-WA

Posted by Steve-WA on July 10, 2007 at 20:52:11:

health savings accouont is like a health ROTH IRA for your deductible (5K for me) and then 80% after.

Family of four costs me 335/mo, plus the 5K annually that I can put into the account that is totally tax deductible,a s well as the premiums. No percentages or anything, like normal health insurance.

try ehealthinsurance.com

Re: health insurance - Posted by Rolf

Posted by Rolf on July 10, 2007 at 19:26:01:

I’m self-employed and have to buy my own health insurance.

My strategy? Pay through the nose and hope and pray the company
won’t drop you for some arbitrary reason.

You get to expense part of the cost on your tax returns so there is
some savings. Essentially, our “great” country truly sucks when it
comes to health insurance.

Good luck as you will need it.

Rolf

Re: health insurance (long response) - Posted by cindy bessman

Posted by cindy bessman on October 30, 2007 at 17:38:01:

Looking for reasonable healthcare coverage.

Maybe not - Posted by Dr B. (OH)

Posted by Dr B. (OH) on July 11, 2007 at 18:05:40:

While an HSA is a great idea, in general, please, please, everyone do your due diligence when seeking health care plans.

In my experience, plans that allow an HSA do not allow a medication benefit. This means you pay meds out of your HSA and DON’T COUNT toward your deductible. If you or your dependents have chronic (monthly) medications that are not generic this can HURT.

Also your plan may disallow insuring you for certain ongoing conditions. There are laws that can prevent this from happening but they are not airtight depending on your situation. These you pay from your HSA and don’t go toward your deductible either.

For my 1st 2 years of self-employment, I spent $20K +/- $4000 for health care expenses. Man, that’s a lot of Lonnie deals, vacations, toys, etc!

This year I went to a local health insurance broker, reviewed my issues, and received 3 plans to consider. I read EVERY WORD of the ACTUAL plans and compared them. Anything I didn’t understand, I called for clarification. This is, at minimum, a one month process.

I no longer have an HSA, though the idea is still great for many people. For the first 6 mos of this year my costs have been 25% of my previous years. But don’t be fooled, I have taken a calculated, compensatory, risk, elsewhere in my plan, to achieve this.

Yes, it would be EASIER for the government to do this for us. However, there are two issues here: 1)Maybe easier isn’t better. 2) Right now THEY AREN’T.

Steve

Re: HSA - Posted by Mark

Posted by Mark on July 11, 2007 at 10:26:39:

Steve hit upon a good point. I have been lurking on this board for awhile now. I myself am a proud used mobile home investor and my day job is health insurance consulting. HSA’s are probably the best solution out there for health care these days. If you would like more information please call me directly at 800-219-1733. You can also visit our website at www.hsaforamerica.com I would also enjoy talking to anyone about their mobile home experiences.

Mark Rigdon
‘Maximize Your HSA - We Make It Easy’
MarkRigdon@HSAforAmerica.com
800-219-1733 - Direct
800-707-9849 - Phone
866-284-0082 - Fax

Re: health insurance - Posted by I. D. Clair

Posted by I. D. Clair on July 11, 2007 at 04:59:20:

Is misery the only happiness in your life? I can’t recall one positive post. If you’re unhappy with your health care situation in this country, change it.

I like how you put “great” in quotes. Do you not think our country is great? Perhaps you can freely invest in another country that is “great”. Start off with Venezuela and work your way down from there. Hugo will welcome you with open arms. While you’re there, check out the health care system.

Re: Maybe not - Posted by Mark(MO)

Posted by Mark(MO) on July 12, 2007 at 08:53:56:

…snip…
In my experience, plans that allow an HSA do not allow a medication benefit. This means you pay meds out of your HSA and DON’T COUNT toward your deductible. If you or your dependents have chronic (monthly) medications that are not generic this can HURT.
…end snip…

This is only the case if you get a HSA compat. plan that isn’t comprehensive. The health plan that covers my wife and I pays for drugs after the deductible has been met. There are hundreds of plans with many, many coverage differences. Steve is correct that you MUST DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE when buying an insurance policy just as you would look things over when buying a mobile home. Only look at companies that are A-rated or higher on the AM Best rating scale. A good consultant can help you work through this as well.

…snip…
Also your plan may disallow insuring you for certain ongoing conditions. There are laws that can prevent this from happening but they are not airtight depending on your situation. These you pay from your HSA and don’t go toward your deductible either.
…end snip…

If there are any preexisting conditions or health concerns all insurance companies regardless of plan type will often issue exemptions and exclusions. Navigating a good health plan can often be like navigating a mine field, but don’t short cut the process. Find yourself a good consultant and get yourself a GOOD policy that covers what YOU need.

To your health!,
Mark

Re: health insurance - Posted by Rolf

Posted by Rolf on July 11, 2007 at 08:50:54:

No, Mr. or Ms. Clair, I do not think our country is great when it comes
to the nationwide distribution of and payment for medical services. By
any number of objective measurements, we are at best on par with 3rd
world countries in many aspects of our health care system. These are
not the ramblings of a person who loves misery rather the observations
of anyone who can read and think.

My night job is to teach English as a Second Language to newcomers to
the US. For most of the women, it is more dangerous (for both the
mother and the baby) to give birth in this country than in their own.
Male and female students both find themselves facing obesity and all
its associated problems here when they never even had to consider
such a thing in their own countries. In almost every country
represented in a typical class, ALL citizens are covered by free or low
cost health insurance. I could go on and on (and you could easily do a
comparative analysis of various objective health stats on the 'Net) but
my point should be obvious.

I’m having lunch with a good friend this week-end and we will talk
about investing in mobile home communities. He sells medical devices
and his monthly NET ranges from $20K to 60K. I love the fact that we
live in a country that allows individuals to make such money (and for
people like myself to own and profit from mobile home communities)
yet I can’t help but wonder who pays the real cost of my buddy’s
income? If you own any type of residential rental property, you have
seen credit reports filled with unpaid medical bills and people’s lives
pretty much destroyed by accidents or illness and no way to pay the
doctor’s bill.

And you wonder why I put “great” in quotation marks.

Tony is correct in his assertion that lack of a decent health care system
limits many people from achieving their full potential. While his
solution is interesting and seems to work for him, I hardly think it is
scalable for large numbers of people. I wonder how many creative and
talented people could be succesfully investing in our industry were
they not locked into their current jobs due to health insurance worries?

I do work very hard to change our system plus I have been fortunate
enough to have been able to travel extensively in both this country and
abroad. In ALL other developed countries in the world, people would
never even think to have a discussion like this because the problem
simply doesn’t exist. And the very fact that I take time to hold the feet
of politicians to the fire on this matter means less time for me to
devote to my investing and other far more enjoyable aspects of my life.

BTW: I have traveled extensively in Venezuela. I found it to be a
stunningly beautiful country filled with people genuinely interested in
meeting real live Americans. As for Hugo, I am no fan of his yet
Venezuela is, so far, a democracy and he has been elected more than
once. Do you doubt for an instant that Bush would do anything, legal
or otherwise, to remove him from office? I find that to be one more
reason to put “great” in quotation marks when the word is used as an
adjective to describe our country.

Rolf