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Great # of REPOS in small town - Posted by Laurie(NC)
Posted by Laurie(NC) on June 03, 2004 at 17:53:49:
I live 1 1/2 hrs from my original hometown, which has had the worst unemployment rate in the state of NC. Because of fraudulent doings by mobile home sales people and people loosing their jobs, there are some DW Land/Home subdivisions that have 10+ bank-owned foreclosures in them. These homes are 1200-2000 sft, 3BR/2BA, on 1+ acre lots, and selling for $30K. The real estate agent tells me that most of the listing agents don’t advertise these homes, because it has been hard finding qualified owner-occupied buyers. Consequently, they don’t even have “For Sale” signs in the yards and are targeting investors. The homes are in great condition and ready to move-in. However, I was told that because of the rate of foreclosures in these subdivisions, the appraisals may come out low (being compared to other REOs) and it may be hard for my end buyers (thinking of doing L/O or owner-financing) to get financing. Should I pursue these? I’m scared to move forward, because it is a small town and I may not be able to get rid of the home(s).
Alter your Exit - Posted by Tony-VA/NC
Posted by Tony-VA/NC on June 03, 2004 at 18:04:48:
This is quite common. Foreclosured land/home packages are running their course. Don’t be too quick to blame the dealers, the lenders were as much or more at fault.
The land/home packages, particularly the double wide deals are quite lucrative. As you discovered, they are not likely to make you a lump sum of cash right now but think about renting and holding them.
We buy these land/home deals at wholesale prices, rent them for a nice monthly spread and down the road, when things turn around, you can sell them at retail to buyers with bank financing, or sell the home off and keep the land as a lot rental.
Don’t overlook the fact that you are able to buy at wholesale now. That won’t always be the case. In fact, as the lenders nibble down their REO’s, they are less interested in selling at wholesale. Buy now, rent for cash flow and sell for retail when the market is ready.
Tony
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Need some advice on getting money to buy mh - Posted by Earl
Posted by Earl on June 03, 2004 at 19:26:09:
I have the same scenario in my area lots of land/home repos in subdivisions selling for $30K, they will rent for $700-$900 depending on area and # of bedrooms. We just bought 10 lots in subdivisions, 2 homes are repoes, but I can’t find any bank around that lend money on the mobile homes. I have meeting with banker tomorrow, who did loan on mobile homes 4 yrs. ago, but bank policies changed. I am hoping the banker will be flexible.
Some of the things that I have done so far are: passed out flyers and spoke to some investors at my real estate club and offered to pay up to 18% with full recourse, but no go as of yet. I also called about 10 lenders looking for funding and no dice. Lastly, I am also working with a note broker on possibly selling a land/home note. I was originally looking to buy and resell retail, but with all the repos pulling prices down, renting or possible l/o would seem the best route to go now. My only issue is that I need to be buy the homes, and refinance so I can keep it going.
If the bank turns me down again, do you have any recommendations on how I get more funding to buy more land/home deals and get refi or get more loans to continue the buying process.
Re: Need some advice on getting money to buy mh - Posted by Fanny Dickson
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Re: Need some advice on getting money to buy mh - Posted by Greg¶
Posted by Greg¶ on June 05, 2004 at 22:53:39:
This will only help a little, but: can you sell the MH, collecting down payments for them, while keeping the land?
Re: Thanks for advice - Posted by Earl
Posted by Earl on June 03, 2004 at 21:07:18:
I will keep at it and see what happens tomorrow. The banker already has the company financials and personal financial statements…, when he said no recently. Now I am hoping that, if the bank’s loan committee will not lend on mobile homes, then hopefully they will lend on the land.
The funny thing is, I just attended the class to get my MH Dealer’s license with intent to buy some MH repos, since most of lenders will not sell mh repos to folks w/o a license now. Anyway, I guess the difficulty of getting mh financing keeps the prices down for some great buys right now.
Re: Need some advice on getting money to buy mh - Posted by Tony-VA/NC
Posted by Tony-VA/NC on June 03, 2004 at 20:46:47:
Banking is a game in and of itself. Much of the lending I have obtained has been made through hard earned relationships with lenders. Trust me, I stormed out, cursed out and darn near punched out a few lenders before I got some “yes” answers to these deals.
Sometimes it just takes getting the first few deals done through alternative financing (owner financing, hard money- private lenders, home equity loans, refi’s on other properties, etc.).
Once you get a few done, then a new bank may look more favorably upon your deal. After you get a deal financed and pay on time, the lender’s soften up a bit. They see you performing and begin to establish a comfort level with you. Certainly it is best if you can establish a rapport with one person at that bank or lending institution but that is not always easy as these places are constantly getting bought out.
Refi’s after one year of seasoning will be easier but you will still have to farm your area for lenders willing to either gamble on the mobile home with land (securing both with a first lien) or one willing to gamble on you.
It is important to present the deal in a manner that makes it harder and harder for the lender to say “no.” Give them a good loan to value. Keep your payments a priority (established credit or begin now). Give them a first mortgage (Deed of Trust) on the land and a fist lien on the home (or retire the title). Have your personal and business information in a format that they can use.
I like nothing better than to play “radar” from M.A.S.H, by handing the lender the documents as they are asking for them. “Yes, that information is right here.” Or, “yes, that is listed just below your thumb.” Not that I want to come across as arrogant, on the contrary, I simply want to prove that this is a business decision and the facts support it.
Sometimes the hardest part is to simply get a lender to tell you what it is they want to see. Once you find our or figure it out, write the application with that lender (reader) in mind.
Most important of all. Keep asking, keep knocking and don’t listen to “no.”
This is a numbers gaem. Keep asking. When one won’t loan, another will. The one that said “no” this month will say “yes” next month.
Tony
Work Up - Posted by Tony-VA/NC
Posted by Tony-VA/NC on June 04, 2004 at 09:20:48:
If your banker has to take it to committee in order to determine if they even loan on mobile homes, you are not talking to the right person. You need to work your way higher up the ladder and get to know a decision maker. They may still have to take it to “committee” but they typically have their own lending cap that they control and they know the kinds of loans they wish to make.
Securing the land and the home is important to get these loans through them. You can find banks that will do just the mobile homes but I finally decided that swimming upstream just to be different is a waste of time and energy.
The challenge for me was to create a loan app that fit the lenders criteria (swimming downstream) but making the loan or money work to solve my niche specific problems (kind of like swimming downstream to cross the current to that deep water fishing hole).
If they want Deeds of Trust on the land and a note on the home, fine for me.
We have talked about how the prices are at wholesale levels now, think about the equity you can tap when they return to retail. You can also tap equity when you refi and pull cash even at the current fair market value.
I believe a great deal of our new banking business will be done through relationships built. Over time you can reach a level where you fall into a category more appealing to a greater number of banks, regardless of relationships. But I still like being able to pick up the phone, speed dial a couple of bankers I know and have done business with and run a deal by them over the phone while I am standing on the property. This saves both of us time. I know their level of interest and what they can do for me. I can then adjust my offer to the sellers to fit that scenario or begin to work owner carry etc. more strongly.
Thx - Posted by E
Posted by E on June 03, 2004 at 21:10:38:
I will keep at it and see what happens tomorrow. The banker already has the company financials and personal financial statements…, when he said no recently. Now I am hoping that, if the bank’s loan committee will not lend on mobile homes, then hopefully they will lend on the land.
The funny thing is, I just attended the class to get my MH Dealer’s license with intent to buy some MH repos, since most of lenders will not sell mh repos to folks w/o a license now. Anyway, I guess the difficulty of getting mh financing keeps the prices down for some great buys now.
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Re: Work Up - Posted by Laurie-NC
Posted by Laurie-NC on June 04, 2004 at 09:41:51:
How should I determine the true future FMV? The buyer agent I am working with tells me that these L/H deals that are listed at $30K could be sold (owner finance or L/O) for $60-70K easily. How can I be sure I have a deal, especially in a small town where the unemployment rate is high? What price range should I be offering?
Re: Work Up - Posted by Tony-VA/NC
Posted by Tony-VA/NC on June 04, 2004 at 10:10:03:
Sounds like you need a different realtor. Your agent should be able to determine what those land/home deals have sold for recently.
If you use a bank and intend to borrow based upon fair market value, then they will require an appraisal. That will give you a decent idea on similar homes in your area. Look at the comparison sales but bear in mind, from what I can tell, an appraiser can get an appraisal to come in at just about any number (within reason) that the bank wants him/her to.
Look at Tax Assessed Value also. This number is not entirely accurate but if you are buying as an investor, it needs to be well below tax assessed value. I have had banks lend to me based solely on tax appraised value because I only borrowed say 80% (or whatever they would give me) of that tax assessed value.
Knowing your market, through these and other sources will over time give you the ability to say, “I won’t pay more than $x for that property or I can only sell that property for $x.”
But your most important question is “How can I be sure I have a deal.” Your next important question is “what should I offer.”
Both questions center around the same answer.
You need to know what you want as your end result. The more “exits” you have from a deal, the better.
If you want cash flow, simply determine what the debt service and expenses would be. Work backwards and find out what sales price that debt service supports.
Then check and make sure that this price is well below the tax assessed value and comps you are finding for that type of property.
Offers are approached in many ways. With foreclosures, LOW BALL. You are not talking to emotionally attached homeowners. You are talking numbers. Offer well below what you want to pay and work up from there if you have to. Don’t be afraid to hold your ground and pass up a purchase. Motivated buying will end your career quickly.
Tony
Re: Work Up - Posted by Lyal
Posted by Lyal on June 04, 2004 at 09:57:51:
Laurie,
When the realtor tells you something like that, make them prove it… “Wow, that sounds great. Tell you what, I’ll talk to my bank while you get the comps”. Make sure the comps are recent (6 mos), similar and close by.
Also, have you signed an agreement with your “buyer’s agent” so their fiduciary responsiblity is with you? If you haven’t, no matter what they call themselves, they represent the seller and any info should be run through your BS filter first.
All the best, Lyal
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