For Rent sign question - Posted by John

Posted by Frank Chin on October 27, 2005 at 14:24:46:

Drew:

That’s the demographics of zipcode “11223” based on the 2000 census. Continued influx had increased Russian and Chinese since. Brighton Beach is the zipcode immediately to its south.

The zipcode to the immediate east is almost 20% Russian & 8% Chinese, and the zipcode to the west of us is 19% Chinese & 8% Russian, with the Chinese demographics increasing in density to the Sunset Park area which is Brooklyn’s Chinatown.

I read a recent NY Times article mentioning the lack of service for “foreign students” having trouble with English, plus a map where the darkest is the highest density. Zipcode 11223 is right in the bulls eye. So with problems come opportunity, and thus marketing to the non English seems like a good bet.

This used to be a predominently Italian neighborhood with remnants of its past, such as most Funeral homes are Italian owned. However, the business segement for second generation Italians continued to drop.

Owners of these local funeral homes are good customers of ours, and they mentioned business dropped 25% to 50% in the last 10 years or so. I asked if it has to do with the mortality rate. The answer is “the Chinese go to Chinese funeral homes, Russians to Russians, and Jewish to Jewish”.

Had a conversation with a hearse driver after hearing some of these places hired a “Chinese” manager to go for this business. The guy laughed, and said “a Chinese guy at an Italian funeral home”??

So, most of us do RE, or marketing in this area should be well aware of demographics and its impact.

Frank Chin

For Rent sign question - Posted by John

Posted by John on October 26, 2005 at 15:46:55:

I have a house in an area that is equally divided between hispanics and african americans. Is it ok to put out a sign that reads house for rent in spanish only?

Re: For Rent sign question - Posted by Frank Chin

Posted by Frank Chin on October 27, 2005 at 08:11:12:

John:

I live in NYC and “signage” issues are very controversial. I would put up BILINGUAL signs even if the area is 100% Hispanic.

I researched the marketing impact of advertising and signage in an area that I own a business, that is 11% Chinese, 11% Russian, 8% Hispanic. Local business people advised me to keep the large English signage, but add Chinese and Russian to signfiy that our business “Welcomes ALL”. To do otherwise would be to say “English speaking clientele is not welcomed here”, and make trouble for myself.

The area I live in (not where my business is) is heavily Korean, and some business owners are in the bad habit of putting up signs in “Korean” only. I actually avoid these businesses myself as it seems to me only Korean customers are welcomed.

I recall a Chinese Restaurant I patronized being taken over, and a Korean ONLY sign put up. What was strange is they painted the Eiffel tower on the front door. After walking by the place several months, curiousity got the better of my wife, so she walked in to see what type of business it was. They told her it was a Korean restaurant that serves French food. Gee, I could’ve figured that out.

BTW, they didn’t stay in business too long. Wonder why??

Then, politicians been getting angry calls from citizens about this issue, with letters to the editor saying “I was born here, and now I feel I’m living in the middle of a third world country”. The funniest story I read about this was a women went to her local McDonalds (here in the USA), but everyone behind the counter that day couldn’t speak English, and someone else on line had to help her order her food. Imagine if it was YOU or ME??

The McDonald manager later said it was a fluke as he hires people who speaks English.

Then, some bright Korean businessman had the idea of putting up a huge billboard announcing his NEW business in Korean only with the only part not Korean being the “phone number”. Well, it got the attention of local “non Koreans” who checked it out, and it turned out to be a new Korean run taxi service. Further checking by the local newspaper revealed the taxi service is NOT even LICENSED, and the newspaper happily reported it was SHUT DOWN.

Imagine if the taxi service added English to its signage?? Not only would he get some “Gringo” customers who only speaks English (isn’t that terrible?), but no one would even bother to check to see if he’s licensed!!

I do advertise to Russians and Chinese, but thru Russian and Chinese newspapers and magazines. If you want to reach Hispanics only do it in Hispanic papers. BUT, DO expect people to call and ASSUME you speak Spanish, which is the case if you put up SPANISH only signs.

Now, I do have employees in my business who speak Russian, Chinese, and Spanish.

One last thing. There seems to be local regulations in NYC that REQUIRE English on signs that was never enforced. Now, there’s debate here to clarify the law, enforce it, and stress its based on “safety” issues. The idea being that if a fire is reported on such and such a place, at a restaurant, the firemen arriving on the scene don’t have to guess “is that place with the Korean sign, and Eiffel tower the restaurant”??

Frank Chin

Re: For Rent sign question - Posted by Sailor

Posted by Sailor on October 26, 2005 at 18:37:40:

Absolutely not! Do not leave yourself open to any potential charges of discrimination. I’m puzzled–if you are not intending to discriminate, why only a sign in Spanish?

Tye

Re: For Rent sign question - Posted by Brian (UT)

Posted by Brian (UT) on October 26, 2005 at 17:48:06:

John

I wouldn’t do it, even though it is common for us to put out signs is english in a heavy hispanic or other non-english areas. You could do it but there always seems to be someone with a lot of extra time on their hands. Put out both.

I once put an ad in the paper for a rental near a large catholic church because 80% of the renters in the area were catholic and I wanted the potential renters to be aware of the location so I specically mentioned it being near St something. But someone had to complain I was discriminating against whatever religion they were to the equal oppertunity housing people and they actually sent out a test team to see if I was, they found out I wasn’t, but they sent me a letter to tell me to knock it off anyway because it implied I had a “preference” for a specific group.

Brian

NYC demographic question. - Posted by Drew

Posted by Drew on October 27, 2005 at 11:50:47:

Frank,

Which area are you describing with the Russian, Chinese and Spanish mix? When thinking Russians in NYC, Brighton Beach obviously comes to mind. Are there other areas in NYC that are significantly Russian? Do they have a community in Queens, maybe?

I keep seeing real estate companies in Ridgewood that have their street signs only in Polish. If you go in, though, their listings are both in Polish and in English. Hmmm.

Curious,

Drew