Posted by Chris on October 10, 2003 at 17:13:03:
Thanks for your post.
I don’t think we’ll get the $72K out of the property. Probabaly more like $40K since they house needs some repairs and there is evidence of asbestos in the basement. But having the deadbeats proceeds settle their judgement is what I had in mind.
Family home, 12 judgments HELPPPP!!! - Posted by Chris
Posted by Chris on October 10, 2003 at 14:16:54:
Here is the long story short.
Family home ,3 bdr 1 bath, left to 8 grown children when my mom died 22 years ago. Because my brother was living in the home when mom passed we let him continue to live there.
22 years later brother gets married and moves out of the house. The house is in some disrepair, the roof leaks and there is a hole in two of the bedrooms ceilings. The doors are rotten and the basement smells of mildew.
The property is mortgage free so the family decides to allow me to get a loan to fix up the property and rent it out , proceeds from rent to pay down the new loan. Property appraised at $72K.
One week from closing I find out from the title company that there are 12 liens against the property.
Deadbeat brother #1 has a IRS lien $6k lien date was Jan 2003.
Dead beat brother #2 has creditor liens dating back to 1991 for support enforcement, school loans and creditors totaling $3.7K
Deadbeat brother #3 has court judgments from when he went to prison in 1991 totaling $2.6K
3judgments showed up w/sister’s name but they don’t belong to her, wrong SSN and address.
Title company guy (nice guy) says we would have to pay off the valid liens before bank can disperse monies to me for house repair. No way, I don’t want to be pay off deadbeat’s bills and then be liable for the loan.
In a conference call with the sisters (brothers didn’t answer their phone)last night they want to sell the property as fast as possible pay off the deadbeat’s mess and divide what’s left.
What would you do? Is there a way to negotiate some of the older liens/judgments away?
Thanks in advance. I love this board.
One thought, what if all family members quitclaimed their interest to me then I could get the loan on the property, would this work? I understand from the title company that the judgments aren’t attached to the property just to the individual?
Re: Family home, 12 judgments HELPPPP!!! - Posted by Dimpil
Posted by Dimpil on October 11, 2003 at 19:25:03:
How could the title company ‘close’ then come back with this? It’s my experience you get title up front to check to see what’s on title. The attorney or title company will check again before recording but they can’t hold you responsbile for out dated liens, at least in in my state and something like that should have come up during the first search.
Re: Family home, 12 judgments HELPPPP!!! - Posted by Clare Z
Posted by Clare Z on October 11, 2003 at 16:42:22:
I agree with Kristen.
Judgements can be deleted from a credit report 7 years after filing. Liens never die until they are paid. See what you can do about making some of them disappear. The other thing is to pay for the liens and subtract that amount from what is paid to the debtors.
CZ
Re: Family home, 12 judgments HELPPPP!!! - Posted by Kristine-CA
Posted by Kristine-CA on October 11, 2003 at 09:15:35:
My experience with quit claim deeds and title companies where I am is that it will not work.
However, I’m wondering where you are and what your state laws are about judgements. Where I am, there is SOL of ten years for judgements unless they are re-newed. This would eliminate several of the ones you listed. BTW, I’ve had title companies get demands (exact amount owed) and tell me I’ve had to pay liens that I didn’t have to pay. They simply didn’t look at the dates on the judgements. I had to remind them of the SOL. So make sure you find out the laws where you are and don’t pay anything you don’t have to.
The title company should be able to advise you about the judgements against your sister. If the social security number is on the judgements and does not match hers, no title company that knows what they are doing will make you pay that. They would usually get a signed statement or affidavit where your sister provides them with her personal info and they can eliminate those debts.
If your title company won’t work with you to help you here, get another one. My experience with title companies is that they know only about underwriting and risk management (and sometimes not even that much). They rarely know the law and often times going around spouting mis-information. Always ask to speak with their legal department if you can’t make headway with the title officer.
Let us know how it turns out. Sincerely, Kristine
Re: Family home, 12 judgments HELPPPP!!! - Posted by JT-IN
Posted by JT-IN on October 10, 2003 at 16:45:54:
Chris:
The lack of common interest or motivation may keep you from conveying title on this property.
This is a classic Partition Sale case, if there ever was one. What should happen is to have all parties who agree to sell, Deed the property into one common interest, such as a Trust. One trusted party, (I nominate Chris) could be the Trustee, while another common entity could hold the Beneficial Interest of the Trust. This move will elminate some other potential liens, while it will NOT eliminate further liens from those who haven’t converyed title to the Trust.
The Trust could then file a Partition Suit. The result of such will force the remaining parties who haven’t deeded their interest to either settle this amicably, or the court will order the property SOLD. Out of the proceeds of the sale, each party will receive their respective equity share. The sibblings with liens that cloud the title will have that portion deducted from the proceeds that they receive, following liquidation of the property. There is nothing that would keep you individually, or the collective rest of the owners from bidding on the property when it comes to public sale; (auction), if it comes doewn to that point. Hopefully the uncooperative ones will see the light and realize that this will only cost them more in the long run…
I have seen many cases where relatives will allow a rather tidy some of cash or equity slide right down the drain, before they concede to doing something that will benefit the ones they hold such grudges against… As Rodney King one said, “Why can’t we all just get along…?” (For the sake of be able to be done with one another, if for no other reason…; but there are those who delight in torment).
Just the way that I view things…
JT-IN
Re: Family home, 12 judgments HELPPPP!!! - Posted by Randy
Posted by Randy on October 10, 2003 at 15:24:34:
If the judgments are not attached to the property the quit claim deed might work?
Check with your ?escrow guy? or an attorney. A warranty deed may be better, the difference is a quit claim deed say?s I quit any claim in this property (If one exists) a warranty deed ?warrants? you do have an interest in this property to transfer. I as a total stranger could give you a ?Quit Claim Deed? on your property, it?s worthless because I don?t have any interest in the property to transfer?you see?
One other consideration ? if the property were sold at $72k proceeds divided equally between all eight children (as is now the case) each would receive $9,000 you could have dead beat brothers 1,2 &3 receive their settlement now in the form of satisfying their respective judgments. In other words $2k-$3k now or $9k if and when you sell? roll that into the refi.
Talk it over with the others and have your attorney draw this up
Re: Family home, 12 judgments HELPPPP!!! - Posted by E.Eka
Posted by E.Eka on October 10, 2003 at 14:26:05:
Doesn’t sound like one big happy family…sorry to hear that.
Re: Family home, 12 judgments HELPPPP!!! - Posted by Marty Wareing
Posted by Marty Wareing on October 10, 2003 at 14:24:04:
Biggest problem I see is that you have 8 individual owners from the inheritance. Unlike many husband and wife homesteads which protect against individual liens and/or jdugments, the home you own collectively is not protected by that “shield”. Sorry to say, but I believe you have an uphill battle on your hands.
SOL is 20 yrs. on domestic judgements OUCHHH!!! - Posted by Chris
Posted by Chris on October 15, 2003 at 13:23:43:
Sister is cleared, SSN was not hers but brothers are still on the hook because of the 20 yr SOL in VA.
I’ll try to see about negotiating the judgments since most of them are old.
Thanks to all.
Chris
Re: Family home, 12 judgments HELPPPP!!! - Posted by chris
Posted by chris on October 14, 2003 at 13:24:47:
Kristine,
Okay. Thanks for the advice. I’ll check the SOL for VA. This may make things a little easier to deal with.
I’ll also check w/ an attorney.
Chris
Re: Family home, 12 judgments HELPPPP!!! - Posted by Chris
Posted by Chris on October 10, 2003 at 17:15:06:
Okay, I may file a partition suit. Thanks