EXCITING: What to do with $4,000,000? - Posted by Eric

Posted by Eric on July 21, 2004 at 10:48:23:

Ray,

I was struggling with my management company trying to explain that an nearby apartment community had rents $150 a month greater than my rents. I was in a better location too. My management company refused to believe I could raise my turn-over rents to this level. Finaly, in despriation over issues of my low rent and poor management, I contacted the REIT manageing the other apartment community. After speaking with the regional, I found he was retiring and would be moving to, of all places, the same town where my apartment was located. We became friends and ended up with a contract for him to give me a hand.

We agreed on a present valuation of the property with a future appraisal and refi or future resale in 1 year with a 5% fee to the retiring regional manager, paid upon refi or sale. It turned out the guy did a fantastic job and I made my first million.

When I paid him at closing his check was 50K which seemed like quite a bit. But my check was much bigger than it would have been.

As an interesting side bar. The guy I hired, had worked for a REIT that rehabed large apartment towers (3000+ units) in large cities. One deal he just finished, was a cluster of low income towers in San Francisco. His company bought then for 100,000,000 and in 2 years time sold them for 300,000,000. How about making 200,000,000 in a couple of years?

The same process works for any size deal.

EXCITING: What to do with $4,000,000? - Posted by Eric

Posted by Eric on July 12, 2004 at 17:50:23:

It’s been 5 years and I built a net worth of $4,000,000 dollars by buying distressed rental property from tired landlords using other peoples money.

However, I’ve become tired too.

I now own 200 unit apartment community worth $12,000,000. All of it is super clean pride of ownership property with good fee management.

Each week, I have problems like, last week a great little old lady drove into my leasing office to pay the rent early… right through the front door with her Caddie. Drunks slip and fall claims, the vet who died in the tub-biohazzard-claim, etc.

Yep, I’m ready to reinvent myself…

Soo… here’s the question:

IF YOU HAD $4,000,000 IN A 1031 EXCHANGE ACCOUNT, WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH IT? (By the way, I haven’t listed the apartments yet)

Keep in mind, I have to satisfy my exchange. Need $30,000 per month cash flow. Don’t want fee management. Require a diversified investments. And, require the IDEAL investment (I = income, D = appreciation, E = equity, A = appreciation, L = leverage).

It’s really an exciting question. Like a shopping spree.

Thank you for the advice in advance.

Re: EXCITING: What to do with $4,000,000? - Posted by Dan

Posted by Dan on December 30, 2004 at 22:30:47:

Sir, i have a great business that you may want to purchase. It comes with a beautiful downtown building where Abraham Lincoln had his law office.
The business and Real estate was valued at $757,000.00
You can use this has a tax right off, plus have a business that will recoop your investment within about a 3 year period.

Re: EXCITING: What to do with $4,000,000? - Posted by john bruno

Posted by john bruno on July 16, 2004 at 17:01:06:

Eric,
Congrats. Sounds like you have “landlord syndrome”…I had it 10 years ago and that was enough for me.

To get to $4 mil…What did you start with? All single family stuff? When did you go to apartment buildings?

I would take my money and buy a couple of nice condos in Vegas in one of the new towers going up and watch them double in price for the next few years. Oh, it is going to stop, but not right now. The Californians are flowing into Nevada in record numbers with bushels (I’m old enough to know what a bushel is…) full of money.

I’d donate about $100,000.00 to worthy causes. Fund a college scholarship for one student at my old high school. Fund a scholarship for one student at my old alma mater.

…Be grateful…Thank the Big Guy in the sky; enjoy life; and, tell him that I’ll see him in a few years.

Nice job, Eric. Enjoy.

Re: EXCITING: What to do with $4,000,000? - Posted by Carl

Posted by Carl on July 14, 2004 at 10:05:35:

One part of your post that isn’t clear is how involved you are with the day to day minutae. Also, are you really committed to the 1031?

You said the tenant drove her car into “my” leasing office. Was it really you in there at the time?

It it were me, I would consider keeping what I have but think through whether I have the management right - have I delegated everything I can, and do I have a good team of all the right folks in place.

For some buy-and-hold folks on this website in your shoes, their strategy would be sure they’ve delegated well, and then go reserve a tee time. Then their exit plan would be stop breathing and let their heirs figure out what to do with it.

Re: EXCITING: What to do with $4,000,000? - Posted by Carlos

Posted by Carlos on July 12, 2004 at 19:28:44:

OK, so you need $30K/mo, and have $4M to invest. That means you need a 9% cap deal (or deals). I would look at NNN leases. Take the $4M and invest it in a few of those, at 9%. Then you sit back and basically cash the checks each month. No management hassles, so you can rest your tired body parts. And, you get your I.D.E.A.L. goals you listed. The only one I’m not sure of is the L, (‘leverage’), but I would think you could surely fund these with debt. So, if you could put down 25%, your $4M would control $16M worth of properties. That’s good, for two reasons: increased diversification, and also because it means you don’t have to have 9% cap rate deals, which are getting hard to find. You could do 8% deals, which are plentiful, and still easily hit your 9% CF target, as long as interest rates stay low, or can be locked in.

The best part is that your tenants are all credit-rated, so if they decide to close up that store, you get paid for the lease anyhow. It’s a pretty effortless way to go, I’m told. (I say “told”, because I’ve never done one of these, so I could easily be off base here somewhere, although I have looked into them a fair amount.) Your tenants would be companies such as Applebee’s, Alltel, Creme de la Creme, Hollywood Video, Jiffy Lube, Staples, and Walgreen’s. These are actual tenants shopping NNN leases as we speak.

So, how does that sound?

Now that’s Creative! - Posted by Erich

Posted by Erich on July 16, 2004 at 17:57:43:

Great idea! I’ll bet your right about the appreciation on a condo in a tower in Las Vegas. Will the condos cash flow?

Why not buy a few NNN leased investments and make one speculative appreciation play too.

By the way, I started with a small 4 plex 6 years ago (on a hill, with a view, over looking water). I couldn’t afford to buy a house on my meager engineering salary. A year later, I bought some more small deals and each year exchanged into something bigger. And here I am.

Re: EXCITING: What to do with $4,000,000? - Posted by Eric

Posted by Eric on July 13, 2004 at 10:42:27:

Thanks Carlos,

I think this is a good idea about the NNN lease stuff. In fact, my real estate broker recomended this action too. After investigating, I discovered the NNN free standing retail market to be extremely hot and competive. I do not want to “follow the herds”. I may buy one or two deals and then… Any other ideas?

Re: EXCITING: What to do with $4,000,000? - Posted by Lance

Posted by Lance on July 12, 2004 at 22:59:45:

I will assume the 1031 is leading to cash, the triple N lease is a great option and all part of the larger realm of the cash flow business. I am most experienced in the notes backed by real estate. Your moneies are backed by the real estate whilst it apprieciates. If I were in your shoes, I would direct it into financing the very properties you have become an expert in. If the payor fails to pay, you foreclose and sell the property off.

Re: Now that’s Creative! - Posted by AgR

Posted by AgR on July 19, 2004 at 14:01:25:

Hello Erich,

Great story, very inspiring. I have always wondered how the progression to bigger and bigger buildings work. How do you transfer to a bigger buidling; by saving the cash flow produced from the current bldg and investing it in the new; by improving the cap rate on the current bldg and investing the profit on the new bldg; or by saving money earned in a regular job and investing it along with the equity of the old bldg into the new bldg? Or another way?? Also, how long do you keep each bldg before transfering to a bigger one?
Look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,
Agr

Re: EXCITING: What to do with $4,000,000? - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on July 15, 2004 at 15:12:18:

Eric,

Interesting post in that your situation mirrors the challenge our family business has been grappling with the last few years. We’ve gradually converted a highly management intensive portfolio of properties and businesses into a more “hands-off” investment orientation. We’re also getting ready to sell a multi-family project and need a 1031 candidate to identify, so I am in the same hunt.

We’ve done a number of NNN retail deals in the last three years, and fortunately caught the boom on the way up. As you have found, there is a lot of money chasing a finite number of deals. Financing is plentiful and cheap, and the combination has driven caps into the 6’s for the best tenants and markets. I personally do not expect to see any major easing of price pressures in the near futures for the prime credit deals, so you have to “go where they ain’t.”

If you get away from the hottest markets and the hottest tenants (i.e. Walgreens, Home Depot and the like) there are some workable deals to be found. We’ve been looking at markets that presently have problems, but have the community infrastructure in place to be among those that recover over the next few years. In areas like this it is almost a buyers market with asking caps in the mid-nines and closing caps above ten. With a credit tenant in place (especially those with recession-proof business models, e.g. Dollar Tree, RentWay, etc.) the downside is minimized and the upside can be significant. Unfortunately these types of deals are not large enough (usually less than $600,000 or so each) to satisfy your needs unless you were to do several of them or buy a portfolio. (There are some out there… search NNN on www.loopnet.com in your markets) It’s a gutsy play, and market research is the key.

The NNN principle also works for office buildings, but again you have to do careful market research to avoid the worst of the distressed markets. Nationwide the office sector is in the worst shape of all commecial real estate, and I believe will be the slowest to recover. I have a working hypothesis (yet to be proven)that there could be some play in specializing in one particular type of office product. I like those that require heavy tenant investment in equipment and the facilities and have a need to be in a specific location (e.g. medical, legal, research). This insures the tenants will not move at lease end for a buck a foot discount across town. I also like county seats and proximity to courthouses. Whatever happens in the economy at large, I don’t see the courts slowing down a bit. We just closed on a building like that last week, so check with me in a year or so and I’ll tell you whether we got it right!

I’m also trying to educate myself on industrial property. That’s not a sector I have much experience with, and I’m finding that because of the major shifts in distribution and manufacturing needs over the last few years, the whole sector is in a state of flux. To me this smells like either an opportunity for great profit, or the potential for equally great disaster, so I’m taking my time in doing my own due diligence on the industries I want to be involved with. We will likely decide to specialize in one type of product in this category as well. There are some big players in the sector, and as with getting into anything new, I try to learn from what the big guys are doing and apply it to my own situation. I don’t have the time or the wallet to make all the mistakes there are to be made.

We will be spreading our acquisitions across a couple of sectors and several markets. We considered doing one or two large deals ($10mm+), but when it came right down to it we got skittish about making that large of a bet on one or two markets and tenants. So we’re taking a hedging approach, but using the same investment model and criteria… that being well positioned real estate in stable markets or those with as yet unrealized growth potential (as above), leased NNN to quality tenants (not necessarily credit rated), utilizing medium leverage (65-75%). The acquisition must be immediately accretive to cash flow, offer some upside potential (forced and natural appreciation), and fit our operating strengths.

We research the markets first, then let that guide us to the property type that fits the demographics and our investment criteria.

Once we’ve identified the market and the property type, next we do extensive tenant research. Regardless of property type or credit rating, the way we look at it is when we get involved in long-term leases with corporate tenants we are betting on their continued success for our own. That means I spend a lot of time learning about how the tenant’s business makes money, and whether the outlook for that business model is positive over the long haul. Lots to consider there, especially with the rate of change in a global marketplace.

All in all I think this is one of the most exciting times I’ve ever seen in my 25+ years in this business, and a great time to be out shopping markets and properties. The capital markets are stable and liquid, and supply is concomitant with demand in most of the small markets we play in. That combination makes for my favorite condition… multiple exit strategies for the ones I get wrong!

ray

Re: EXCITING: What to do with $4,000,000? - Posted by Carlos

Posted by Carlos on July 13, 2004 at 13:39:32:

Lance,

That’s an area I know nothing about. But it would seem to me that your returns are limited to the market rate of interest, somewhere in the 5 -10% range. Is that right?

If you foreclose and sell off the property, don’t you have to return any excess proceeds over the amount of your loan to the borrower? If so, I don’t know that your returns would be very attractive.

As I said, this is NOT an area I know much about, but I’d like to learn more.

Carlos

Re: Now that’s Creative! - Posted by Eric

Posted by Eric on July 19, 2004 at 14:48:28:

I buy “value added deals”. These are property that need some work. The best way is to buy a good property in a solid “B” location with bad management. You don’t fix the property, you fix the management. If you do this correctly, you can double your money in a year of two. Next, sell via a 1031 tax defered exchange (the bottom line here is to pay no taxes) and buy a bigger and larger property that is again a value added deal.

Or if you have the cash flow, refinance and pull all your money out. Then buy a second deal. Either way, it tax free if you do it right. My problem is I never have the cash flow. I proforma the property after the new management and some cosmetic repairs and sell right away. A new buyer that doesn’t have the stomach for evictions, drug dealers, etc can then buy the property and there is still something on the table.

I would never work a regular job. Let your money work for you. Never work for money.

Re: Any Other Creative Ideas? - Posted by Eric

Posted by Eric on July 13, 2004 at 15:34:16:

The problem with carrying paper is that I must sell the apartment community (not a 1031 exchange) and pay heavy taxes. I am adverse to paying any taxes.

Any oter creative ideas?

Re: Now that’s Creative! - Posted by AgR

Posted by AgR on July 19, 2004 at 17:08:43:

Eric,

What would you say are some clear traits of bad management. Also, how difficult is it to find these properties??

Re: Any Other Creative Ideas? - Posted by Joe M

Posted by Joe M on July 14, 2004 at 13:40:43:

You can use a technique my R.E. Prof uses in arizona. Basically with 1031 you will need to exchange for a property and will have to have the same or larger loan on the property. Here is where you can use this to your advantage.

As long as the property is of the same type (residential not commercial) you can purchase a 4,000,000 dollar single family home. Then after renting it between 1-2 years you can move into the personal residence and sell it as your personal residence… with 0 tax liability. Disadvantages: Cashflow on a 4 million dollar house would probably be negative, yet ALL the taxes can be avoided by selling the property as your personal residence. Check into this technique, it will allow you to cash out soon with out tax or management problems. Cheers, Joe M.

Re: Now that’s Creative! - Posted by Eric

Posted by Eric on July 20, 2004 at 10:33:15:

Spotting bad management is easier than you’d think. If you’ve lived in an apartment community in the past, you’ve seen the signs and symptoms. Ugly landscaping, dirty laundrys, poorly dressed site employees, vacancy, sloppy maintenance. All these things lead to the inability of the management to raise rents and retain good residents.

Repacing bad management with good in theory will fix these problems. Then the community will see rising rents, better occupancy, more effective maintenance, etc.

If your shopping for an apartment community with these signs. Just ask around and find the worst management company in town. Then buy one of their communitys and fire the management. A word of caution here is… NEVER BUY IN A REGION WHERE YOU CANNOT FIND GOOD MANAGEMENT!

The big problem is fee management. Most of it is poor at best. For a fee management company, it’s a numbers game. Strech their staff as far as they can. Hire cheap uneducated employees with little motivation. Finding good fee management is difficult at best. Further, knowing what to look for is even harder. Most fee management company presidents will hard sell you for the contract. They will tell you anything. If you ane not careful you will find you have repaced a bad management company with another bad managemnt company.

I know I’m negative about fee management. I’t just the hardest part of the job. It is where most owner fail. So you’ve got to be better. Start by studdying management. Read, read, read.

Good luck

Wrong - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on July 15, 2004 at 14:08:09:

“Like-kind” refers to any property held for investment, not the type of property (i.e. residential vs. commercial). A residence does not qualify.

If there is a real estate prof teaching such a technique he or she is way out of line, and ought to spend an aftrenoon on the Iternet learning about the real world.

ray

Re: Any Other Creative Ideas? - Posted by Eric

Posted by Eric on July 14, 2004 at 15:09:26:

Hi Joe,

The tax shelter I believe you are talking about allows for a 250K per spouse or 500K total exemption on the sale of a personal residense. This technique would only shelter the first 500K of my equity.

Thanks

Erich

Re: Now that’s Creative! - Posted by Carlos

Posted by Carlos on July 20, 2004 at 10:51:59:

So Eric, does that mean you don’t use a fee-based management company, or that you do, but you are careful to choose a good one? If you don’t, then how do you run and compensate your management?

=Carlos=