Posted by Rich-CA on June 04, 2008 at 17:38:22:
Some judges never allow them, some allow if reasonable, others actually view the lease as a contract.
What I do for those is (1) charge $25 for chasing down the rent and $5 per day up to $75 in one month. Open endedness is one of the triggers for getting something voided. So I try to word the lease to justify the fees on the basis of actual economic losses.
Does a 3 Day Notice to Pay or Quit void a lease? - Posted by Edwin
Posted by Edwin on May 29, 2008 at 19:43:06:
I have a tenant who signed a 12 month lease. After 9 months he stops paying. I serve him a 3 day notice to pay or quit. He tell me he’ll send another check, but also tells me he already moved out.
Is there anyway he can legimately claim he’s not liable for the remainder of the lease since he “quit” the premises as requested on the notice?
This is in California, if that means anything.
In Oregon, I once had a judge release a tenant from any further liability since she vacated within three days of getting a 3 day pay or quit notice from me. (This tenant was on a month to month agreement). Worked out really slick for her. Instead of giving landlord the required 30 day notice of intent to vacate, she just didn’t pay rent and waited for me to give her a 3 day notice, then she quickly vacated, and her liability for rent the rest of the month vanished.
Tighten You Lease - Posted by Rich-CA
Posted by Rich-CA on May 31, 2008 at 12:50:57:
Often these oddball decisions come from the fact the lease does no cover the issue (mine states the payment and move out procedures in detail, but is tailored to AZ).
Next, avoid the courts. I have a clause that adds 50% to what is owed when I place the debt with a collection agency. I let the collections people do all the work, including filing the lawsuit on my behalf.
Re: Tighten You Lease - Posted by Edwin
Posted by Edwin on June 03, 2008 at 23:59:55:
Good idea, Rich–if you can get away with it. Bear in mind that your 50% penalty can be overturned by any judge who might view it as excessive. I’m curious how much success you’ve had in getting payment through the collection agency?
Anything anywhere can be overturned - Posted by Rich-CA
Posted by Rich-CA on June 04, 2008 at 07:54:30:
by a judge, even things that are clearly and explicitly legal. The “penalty” is not a penalty at all but the standard (as allowed by federal law) fee charged by collections agencies for doing their work. I have had two former tenants try and disappear from our AZ properties. One was located in FL and another was hiding in AZ. The latter took 2 years to find. I would never have had time to do it, even if I knew how. I’ll have to let you know about recovery.
Re: Anything anywhere can be overturned - Posted by Edwin
Posted by Edwin on June 04, 2008 at 08:09:59:
Rich, a federal law may allow collections agencies to charge the creditor up to 50% of the collected amount as their fee, but I doubt any law allows you to ADD 50% to the balance simply because you turn it over to a collection agency. I don’t know of any judge who would allow that if it was contested by the debtor, because it sounds excessive. But if you can collect it, more power to you. It’s worth a try.
Its per the Collection Agency’s Atty - Posted by Rich-CA
Posted by Rich-CA on June 04, 2008 at 16:11:12:
that this was added to the lease. Almost all leases allow collection of costs to try and collect the debt, including attorney’s fees (that can greatly exceed this amount in a particularly messy case), court costs and so on. The agency, as part of its service, fronts all those costs as well as paying their people. It is a very legit charge and has been time tested, and yes in court, as valid, which is why they send you the verbiage for your lease.
Re: Its per the Collection Agency’s Atty - Posted by Edwin
Posted by Edwin on June 04, 2008 at 17:06:29:
Okay, very good. Personally I have no problem with charging up the ying-yang a tenant who has tried to stiff me, but it the charges are legit and can be proven, I would think you could be okay. I am mostly familiar with late fees in California. It doesn’t matter what the lease says. What matters is it it reasonable? A landlord may feel a $200 late fee is fair for his aggravation and not receiving the rent, but a judge may think it’s excessive. It may not seem fair, but judges always have the last word. Just try to avoid them in the first place.