Discounting Bail Bonds - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by JT-IN on February 24, 2003 at 16:06:09:

As it turned out, the Prosecutor somehow renegged on the deal to allow for an early release, so don;t ya know that all those folks stopped visiting right quick. “Darn it, I was just taking a shinin to some of em too!”

What the crux of the matter was for me was this… The Prosecutor had set it up that they would need to make full restituion to me before they got out of Jail… Don’t ask me why or how, but that was the deal. My damages were something like $ 750.00, mostly damage to the building and some loss of products, but not much.

Since I was robbed by two culprits, what the family wanted to do was each pay half. Now this may sound reasonable, but the only problem in my hard-headed way of looking at things was that only one of them was getting out of jail then, and the other one was staying in. Sooooooooooo, what I said was… They didn’t each “half rob me”… “the both robbed me”. Since it wasn’t determinable who got what I was demanding that the first out pay all, and let them recover from their accompliss… They all got p*ssed at me… too bad.

As it turned out, when the first one of them came up to get out again, he did reimburse me 100% and then it was up to him to get the other half back from the other crook… If I remember right the gal at the Prosecutors Offc mentioned how terrible she thought that I was over this… I said that I hope that the word got around to the criminals in town, and maybe they would leave me alone. Come to think of it, that was the last time I was robbed, too.

Sorry for the long ramblings, but you asked IB…


Discounting Bail Bonds - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on February 24, 2003 at 01:24:08:

OK. Has anyone had any luck discounting bail bonds? Two of them showed up on the title report. They are ten years old and $1K each. The property has several other liens and I’m thinking the property wasn’t the kind of thing the bonder(?) was willing to go after. Plus, it looks like they are in 3rd or 4th position. Of a junker.

Can I offer, like, say, $100 for each? There isn’t any magic way to make them disappear, is there?

Thanks for any thoughts or ideas. Sincerely, Kristine

Re: Discounting Bail Bonds - Posted by $Cash$ NV

Posted by $Cash$ NV on February 24, 2003 at 08:24:06:

Kristine - Ben,

The amount of the lien is for the amount of the bond that the Bail Bondsman puts up. So if the bail was $50,000 then the lien would be for $50,000.

Before I would offer anything to anyone I would check with the Courts to see if the bond was exonertated by the Court. If it was then it is the resonsibility of the bondsman to release the lien. Sometimes this may fall through the cracks and not get done.

In Nevada if a person skips the bondsman has 6 months to find the skip until he comes out of his pocket with the bond amount. If the bondman does not find the skip he or his surety company must pay the bond amount.

If there were equity in the property, which a smart bondsman would only write the bond if there were, then he would take the house as I have done in the past. He could sell the house and get his money. This would also depend on the bond amount I am sure $100 dollars after 10 years is more than fair to the bondsman.

But remember if it is a $50K bond then the bondsman had to pay this amount to the court, how likely would he be to discount the lien?

John $Cash$ Locke

Ca$h, where are you? - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on February 24, 2003 at 06:06:24:

I just came across the same thing in a foreclosure. There was a $50,000 mortgage to “secure the bond” of the owner’s son. I assumed though that if he didn’t skip then the mortgage would be discharged but if it was, then it wasn’t done formally. On a side note does this mean the son was out on $500,000 bail (10%)? Great candidate for a foreclosure! LOL

Don’t start with a number - Posted by Jim FL

Posted by Jim FL on February 24, 2003 at 03:10:03:

I’d contact the lein holders and ask them if they would be willing to help you.
Tell them you buy old judgements and leins.
Ask them if they would be interested in selling, and perhaps what they’d be willing to take.
Remember, he(or she) who mentions a number first loses.

I think for a $1k lein, of that age, $100 would be a good offer, but it depends on the person who owns it I suppose.

Good luck,

P.S. I wonder if this would be another way into properties?
Perhaps seek this kind of lien out, buy them and foreclose to get properties?
Buy them at discounts, like Joe’s mechanics lien course teaches, and then collect them from the people or something?
I honestly never knew these could attach to a house, but I suppose it makes sense.
I might look into this myself some.

Re: Discounting Bail Bonds - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on February 24, 2003 at 14:41:42:

$Cash$: thanks for your reply. I think I’m missing something about liens. How do you get your money back if you foreclose on a lien that is in third or lower position? In CA, you would stll have an active first and second, right? So how do you get your money with two open deeds of trust?

Forgive my ignorance here. I’ve read so much about trust deeds and a lot of it is not sticking.

Sincerely, Kristine

So in my example… - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on February 24, 2003 at 10:47:39:

the bondsman definitely put up $ 50,000. So you are saying the entire bail was only $ 50,000? I thought if bail was $50,000 one had to post 10%. (no personal experience in this area, thank god). One thing I was always curious about, why would the bondsman even chase down the skip when he can just foreclose on the property and get his money back plus any additional equity. This is akin to me holding a $5000 tax lien secured by a $100,000 house, and choosing to chase the owner down for $ 5,000 when I have recourse to an asset worth 20 times that right in front of me.

Re: Discounting Bail Bonds - Posted by GL - ON

Posted by GL - ON on February 24, 2003 at 08:39:35:

I would expect they would pretty much take what they can get.

In the loan business (finance companies etc.) if you haven’t gotten a payment in a year, the loan is considered almost uncollectable. I believe only 10% of such loans are paid. A ten year old one would be a one in a million shot.

Re: Don’t start with a number - Posted by Houserookie

Posted by Houserookie on February 24, 2003 at 16:59:44:

>>>>I honestly never knew these could attach to a house>>>>>

I imagine it would be treated like a judgement. A judgement granted by the court.

Of course, if the senior liens exceed FMV, it could be a waste of time.

Judgements are difficult to foreclose.

Here’s How It Works. - Posted by $Cash$ NV

Posted by $Cash$ NV on February 24, 2003 at 23:01:13:

Kristine, Plus Information For All,

I would not put myself in the position of being anywhere on the house but holding a second lien when I write a bond, this way I could foreclose to regain any losses I suffered.

When we write a bail bond it is for a period of one year and at the end of the first year the person we bailed out would have to renew the bond if his case is still pending in court. This is why I suggested checking with the Justice or District Court to see if this bond had been exonerated (cancelled by the court).

We as Bail Bondsman must have a Surety Company gaurantee our Bonds, this is not an Insurance Company, the Surety Company pays the court if our client skips. Then the Surety Company tells us the Bail Bondsman to pay them for the money they paid. No insurance coverage here, strickly cash if you goof up.

I have a One Million Dollar Surety Bond meaning I can write up to a One Million Dollar Bond per occurance, meaning I could write as many One Million Dollar Bonds as I needed to. If I need to exceed this amount I would need authorization from my Surety Company.

When this Bail Agent took a lien for $1K on the house, he was just thinking he would cover his butt with the boss, probably an employee who wanted the commission and said “I took a lien on the house for the $1K”. Just a guess here.

Anyway I have picked up houses writing Bail Bonds, would this be another form of creative real estate investing?

John $Cash$ Locke

Re: So in my example… - Posted by TeddyB_SC

Posted by TeddyB_SC on February 24, 2003 at 19:30:25:

There are different types of bail bonds. There is CASH, which means $50,000 bail is $50,000 cash. There is 10%, which in this instance would mean $5,000 posted. There is surety or property bond, which allows someone to post equity in a piece of real estate.
The bondsman does not necessarliy post actual money with the court. They purchase something similar to an insurance policy. The difference(spread) in what he pays for the policy and what you pay him to get out of jail is his profit. If you skip, and the “insurance” company has to pay, he is in deep do-do.


Actually it cuts both ways… - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on February 24, 2003 at 11:04:52:

Several years ago I bought a large portfolio of
charged-off credit card debt. We collected everything we could and just left judgments on the rest and forgot about them. Now every once in awhile the debtors track ME down looking to release the judgment. I don’t think they have a sudden attack of conscience
rather they are now looking to buy a house or a car.
At this point why would I take a measly $100.00 when I’ve already written it off?

Re: Here’s How It Works. - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on February 26, 2003 at 13:01:19:

$Cash$ will you never cease to amaze me? Writing bail bonds in Sin City? Where is your book/movie deal?

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. Creative indeed. Sincerely, Kristine

Question Cash… - Posted by IB (NJ)

Posted by IB (NJ) on February 25, 2003 at 10:33:26:

Thanks for educating us all on this issue. Pretty interesting. So interesting, in fact, that it reminds me of a missing owner of a vacant lot who I’m looking for. His tax address (where the tax bill is sent) shows up as 609 Broad St (for example). Yet when I go there, it’s a bail bonds place that doesn’t know who this guy is. Does that mean that the bail bonds place has a lien against it? Or better yet…as I’m ttyping this…I’m wondering if the bail bonds place actually OWNS the lot. I thought I had my Brother check the deed but it’s possible he missed something. What do you think?

Re: Actually it cuts both ways… - Posted by GL - ON

Posted by GL - ON on February 24, 2003 at 11:13:03:

And what did you pay for those debts? Ten cents on the dollar or less?

They are not on Kristine’s property, they are on a junker property she is thinking of buying. She doesn’t have to buy, pay, or do anything.

Kristine is talking about buying ten year old leins, face value $1000 for $100. I wouldn’t be surprised if the leinholder jumped at it.

But I don’t know because I have never been in this business. With your experience, what would you recommend?

Kristine’s call would ring my greed bell… - Posted by Ben (NJ)

Posted by Ben (NJ) on February 24, 2003 at 11:36:19:

but that’s me. Probably 99% of lienholders would take a bone at that point. But my first reaction would be “what is going on here that I missed?”. Incidentally, what I paid is
hardly relevant. My usual response to that query is “actually I inherited it, does that mean you get it for nothing?”. (smile).

I haven’t even made the call… - Posted by Kristine-CA

Posted by Kristine-CA on February 24, 2003 at 14:35:58:

Hey guys, Kristine here.

Ben, isn’t the reason that holders of bail bond liens don’t foreclose is because they are in a crummy position? If the bail bondsman is in third position in CA, all they would have is two other loan payments, right?

Cash has a good point. It’s possible that these bonds have been discharged already and that they are still recorded as liens and have not been released. I’ve certainly seen that with every other kind of lien. So, I think I will start there.

And you are right when you say it doesn’t matter what you paid for the debts. I like the inheritance line.

Sincerely, Kristine

They may have been in a bad spot… - Posted by JT-IN

Posted by JT-IN on February 24, 2003 at 15:33:43:

before you call them, but the day that you call the Bail Bondsman, he is in a pretty good spot.

I can certainly understand Ben’s thinking on this, having been in a similare spot a few times…

This reminds me of the day that I had a whole family… aunts, uncles cousins, brothers and sisters, of a criminal who had robbed one of my businesses, visit me at home. They were all trying to persuade me to cut a deal… so that the little theiving b*stard who robbed me could get out of jail. It turned out that the Prosecutor of the county had told them that it was up to me, if I wanted to negotiate to accept less restitution than was ordered by the court.

While this may have been somewhat more emotional situation than that of a Bail Bondsman’s lien, it is similar in that a contact out of the blue only comes when there is something to be gained… other than as Ben mentions, certainly not a guilty concense catchingup to them. So I can certainly see the mentaility that if they are going to release the lien, it will be for something of substance, or not at all… and really that is how many banks operate on this very matter as well. It is understandable…


Re: They may have been in a bad spot… - Posted by MoniqueUSA

Posted by MoniqueUSA on February 24, 2003 at 17:00:18:

JT, I think I would have freaked out if all those folks showed up at my home!
Kudos to you for keeping a cool head.


So what’d you do JT?! - Posted by IB (NJ)

Posted by IB (NJ) on February 24, 2003 at 15:50:18:

Had it been me? I’d want to keep his butt in jail so no other folks get robbed…but that’s just me.