Developing a Section 8 MHP - Posted by Ryan

Posted by ray@lcorn on January 05, 2003 at 20:19:30:

Mc,

The issue is not the cost of the units. In a MHP, the cost of the pad and infrastructure forms the bulk of the investment. Why put a depreciating, management and maintenance intensive unit on the pad if you don’t have to?

As to building quality, apartments have advantages of centralized systems, common walls and community parking areas that keep cars and traffic away from the buildings. Exteriors are generally brick or durable material. Mobile homes are self-contained living units with independent utility hook-ups that run through yards that renters just love to make into auto graveyards. Quality aside, there is just more to go wrong.

ray

Developing a Section 8 MHP - Posted by Ryan

Posted by Ryan on December 26, 2002 at 01:30:31:

Hey everybody, well currently I, and 3 other investors are purchasing a small 2 acre section 8 MHP. After this first purchase, we intend on developing several more in the 10 to 15 acre, 70 to 105 lot range. Currently, the need for section 8 housing in the area we are looking at developing is huge. There are currently 700 people with rental assistance vouchers in 1 county alone wiht no where to use them. There is also a 2 year waiting list to get on the renatl assistance program. What we intend to do is to build 3 or 4 section 8 MHP’s in 2 different counties that DO allow the developement of MHP’s in their zoning. We have checked into that already.

I guess what i’m looking for here is some input on this type of venture. We would own all the MH in the parks because we would be renting them to people with rental assistance vouchers. we are almost guarenteed to have 100% occupancy because of the great need for the housing for those with the vouchers. IF anyone owns, has owned, or has any info or input on owning, running, and eventually selling a section 8 MHP, it would be greatly appreciated.

ROugh numbers for a 10 acre, 70 space park, we have figured up are approximately:
$580000 yearly revenue
$250000 in yearly expenses including debt service
$330000 in yearly net
$1,000,000 +/- $250,000 to develope completely including purchase of all mobile homes.

Thank you in advance for any help on this new endevour.

Ryan

Re: Developing a Section 8 MHP - Posted by Nate(DC)

Posted by Nate(DC) on December 29, 2002 at 23:49:49:

Where are you located (what state, anyway)?? Might be a whole lot easier to build and finance apartments for this income bracket…let me know where you are, and I can tell you what I think…I do a lot of low-income apartments, so if I don’t know I can probably point you to someone who does.

NT

Re: Developing a Section 8 MHP - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on December 29, 2002 at 13:30:05:

Ryan,

I will echo Steve’s comment and Ernest Tew’s advice against owning a park full of MH rentals. I also agree with the cost estimate being way off, and would add that the operating expenses of such a park will be about 50% of gross, before debt service. In the past I have referred to parks with all rental homes as “horizontal apartment buildings.” Which brings me to the obvious question…

Why not build apartments? From the market conditions you describe I would be looking for ways to develop a large apartment project. There are thousands of investors that are very successful with Section 8 apartments. As a property type they are much better suited for the requirements of a subsidized rental program than rental mobile homes for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is financing. In a market with that much pent-up demand it seems it would be a slam dunk.

In case you’re still not convinced, here’s an excerpt on the subject from my book, “Dealmaker’s Guide to Mobile Home Parks”.


Rental Homes
As we discussed earlier, one of the differentiating factors of a mobile home park as an investment is the stability of its tenants due to the expense involved in moving a mobile home. Rental homes negate this advantage. Many park owners look at rental homes as being a boost to cash flow, and on the surface that would appear to be true. The homes can often be bought cheaply, or in many cases, an owner will accept title to a home in payment for past due rents. Collecting a deposit and rent double or triple the amount of space rent seems to be found money, with no harm done to either tenant or owner.

But this is not the case. The home is usually rented to a succession of tenants who have no investment in the community, and no pride of ownership in their homes. As a result, the maintenance on the home remains the responsibility of the owner, and is often neglected. Many rental tenants will not even tell a landlord of minor problems such as leaking toilets or stained carpets for fear of reprisal or loss of deposit. If not totally ignored, the maintenance is done sporadically, and costs run abnormally high due to the transient nature of the tenant base and the relatively low amount of damage that can be sustained by a mobile home without incurring substantial expense to correct. Often the yard and space around the home is ill kept as well. I have seen parks where it was hard to tell which cars ran and which were yard art due to the proliferation of junk around rental homes.

The effect on the community as a whole is just as pronounced. Rather than fostering an atmosphere of neighborhood and shared responsibility for upkeep with the residents, the rental home tenants tend to come and go without developing friendships or ties to the community. Residents who own their homes will resent the transients, and have the impression (rightly so) that the owner of the park doesn?t care about the quality of life for the residents. They will cease to be community minded, and may even start making arrangements to leave. Prospective new home owners exploring parks for location of a newly purchased home will most likely not choose to locate in a community that looks and feels unkempt. The park owner will then begin to meet resistance for increases in space rent. I have very often found that parks with a high percentage of rental homes lag the market in space rent by as much as 25%. The reason is simple. None but the lowest quality tenants will choose to live in substandard conditions if better are available at a comparable price.

Finally, because of the depreciating nature of a rental mobile home, the cash flow from that home must be valued differently than that of the income from space rentals. Allowance must be made for increased maintenance costs, collection losses, and higher vacancies in both spaces and homes. Since the home itself will rarely outlast the spaces, it must be capitalized at a different rate. I will generally not count the rental income from a home in the gross income for the park. I value the homes separately, based on age, condition and size. In the case of badly worn or aged homes, I will actually deduct the cost of moving them out of the park from the final value of the park. In short, there is no scenario in which a rental mobile home is an asset to a mobile home park.

Also be aware that the potential exists for a park to have a rental home problem without the park owning the rental homes. Many times I have seen dozens of homes owned by other investors as rental housing, but shown on the rent roll as a space rental only. The effect on the park is the same regardless of who owns the home. I don?t begrudge investors that make it their business to rent mobile homes. I just don?t allow it in my park. When examining the rent roll, you should be on the lookout for the listing of the same name on multiple spaces. Or the tip-off may be a corporate tenant, such as XYZ, Inc. may be listed as the tenant of space #101. That same corporate name may be listed on the rent roll for multiple lots. If so, then you have probably found the owner of a rental home. Question any tenant listing that does not appear to be normal. Ask the question outright of the owner, ?How many of the homes in this park do not belong to the occupant?? Again, the only way to totally insure that you have the facts regarding ownership is to require tenant estoppel letters as a condition to closing.

end of excerpt***

If you’re interested in the book, the direct url is http://www.creonline.com/catalog/b-137.html

I hope we’ve talked you out of this plan. If not, best of luck.

ray

Re: Developing a Section 8 MHP - Posted by SteveC_GA

Posted by SteveC_GA on December 26, 2002 at 15:50:55:

Hi Ryan,

I have been browsing this site for several years now and can’t recall anyone who has spoken on the subject of a pure “Section 8” MH park. I know several people who are successful with Section 8 single-family homes and even a few who have rented their MH’s under the Section 8 program.

I have owned two MH parks in the past 3 years and currently am involved with Ernest Tew in another MH park in FL. My advice is to stay away from rental parks. There are two reasons for this…(1) it costs more to run and maintain rental units. Mobile homes aren’t built as well as stick built homes. Even newer models require annual maintenance to keep them in good shape. (2) rental units invariably attract undesireable residents and the turnover is much higher with mobile homes than it is with single family homes.

I have had the pleasure to work with and gain a ton of valuable experience and knowledge from Ernest and he will flat out discourage folks from renting mobile homes. This is good advice because he has been there and done that in his 40 plus years in the business.

I’m not saying that a pure rental park wouldn’t be successful, it is a harder task than a park full of tenant’s who own their homes.

One of the things that struck me right away concerning your proposed P&L numbers is that they are very optimistic. The cheapest figure I’ve seen in developing a MH park is 10K per lot, with a more likely figure of 12K per unit, depending on the area. I’ve seen some as high as 18K per unit. Let’s say that you can develop for 10K, that results in 700K just to build a 70 unit park.

Good, used, late model repossessed MH’s can be had these days for about 10-12K. Let’s assume that you can buy 70 MH’s for 10K, that’s another 700K for the MH’s. Now add 2K each (very low number) for setup and delivery…that is another 140K. So, we are up to 1.54 million. I would add another 10% onto that for unexpected costs and put the total cost at 1.7 million.

We have found that a good number to use for monthly expenses on a pure owner occupied MH park is 40% of the gross. This number is higher for a rental park…about 50%.

I don’t want to make this an extremely long post, but I think you can see my concern on developing a park on a purely rental basis.

The best advice I can give (the same that was given to me several years ago, thank goodness) is to talk to someone who has been successful in the MH park development and operation business prior to starting a project. Ray has several years in this business, as does Ernest Tew. I’m sure Ray will add to this post as he gets time.

I hope this helps and keep up the enthusiasm. Owning a MH park is a great way to increase your wealth, but buying the right project is the key.

Steve Case

Re: Developing a Section 8 MHP - Posted by Ryan_MO

Posted by Ryan_MO on December 31, 2002 at 10:50:26:

Thank for replying Nate, I am located in ST Louis, MO. One thing i really need now is kind of a general guesstimate to the cost of developing low income houseing so I know if it will be financially doable for me. Also, how much does the LIHTC help in funding the development of teh project. Thanks for your help.

Re: Developing a Section 8 MHP - Posted by Ryan

Posted by Ryan on December 30, 2002 at 24:26:32:

Hey nate, thanks for replying, I am located in St. Louis. Im curious, do you develope apartments or do you purchase them. I am now looking into the cost of developing section 8 apartments rather than section 8 MHP’s. Any info you have on developing these kinds of properties would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Ryan

Re: Developing a Section 8 MHP - Posted by Mc

Posted by Mc on January 05, 2003 at 08:06:28:

Have two questions for the group .I thought the construction of MH was at least on par with Sec.8 apartment complex’s as to quality and durability? And if they are would not the deciding factor as to which to use be the per sq. ft cost which is in favor of MH by a large margin?

Re: Developing a Section 8 MHP - Posted by Nate(DC)

Posted by Nate(DC) on January 04, 2003 at 16:48:02:

Ryan,

To ballpark development costs I would start by talking to an architect or contractor that is familiar with the product type you are trying to build. You could find these folks by either locating the product and finding out who was involved in the development process, or networking to find the local architects and contractors that usually do those kind of projects (in a city the size of St. Louis there are probably at least a few that specialize in mainly affordable housing or at least do a lot of multifamily with a good amount of affordable). Talk to them, tell them roughly what you’re trying to build, and they should be able to give you a ROUGH guesstimate of hard costs, anyway, without tons of detail. Add something to that as a contingency and you’re at least able to start running numbers in general terms.

How does the LIHTC help? Did you read the article? Also - the LIHTC article refers to another article on historic tax credits - if you read that one too, it’s got a bit more on the “nuts and bolts” of the transaction.

NT

Re: Developing a Section 8 MHP - Posted by Nate(DC)

Posted by Nate(DC) on December 30, 2002 at 20:43:14:

Ryan,

I wrote an article a while ago for this newsgroup on the Low Income Housing Tax Credit program. That is the only remaining federal program to fund development of new low income apartments. It is not strictly for Section 8 but once developed you can rent the apartments on Section 8 if you want.

Here is a link to the article:

http://www.creonline.com/commercial-real-estate/wwwboard5/messages/3341.html

Are you on the Missouri side or the Illinois side? Also, what county are you in? The LIHTC is run by state, so it will make a difference. My understanding is that the Missouri program is basically a lottery, whereas the Illinois program is somewhat friendlier.

Read the article, and then if you have questions, you and I can talk either by email or phone.

NT