Posted by Nate(DC) on August 29, 2002 at 22:11:32:
Well, this varies by local area, as well. I have been in situations (St. Tammany Parish, Louisiana is one that comes to mind) where the majority of the parish roads have never had a formal dedication or right of way. They are privately owned. But the parish has maintained them for so many years, and they have been used for so many years, that there is a de facto right of way over them. I don’t know if anyone has ever tried to close down a road on the grounds that they own it and the parish doesn’t and there’s no right of way, but something tells me that they wouldn’t get very far in the local courts with that argument.
City sold me a busy street. (Texas) - Posted by Richard (TX)
Posted by Richard (TX) on August 27, 2002 at 08:20:17:
My partener and I purchased .405 acre of commercial property that was taken by the city for back taxes. The property went to auction in 1998 and was not bid on. In October 2001 we made an offer based on the field notes the Tax office supplied and bought the property. At time of purchase we had a title search (clear) and a survey. The survey took for ever; due to a street that borders the property the surveyors had a hard time finding property lines. As it turns out the street runs through property leaving us with only .217 acres and it is pie shaped such that it may not be usable. Survey was not complete untill after we had completed the purchase. There is no record of any kind on the street, where it comes thru property, no right of way was ever filed.
My question: should the City have to buy back the street and pay fair market value? Comps for this location are about $50.00 a square foot. They have sent us a tax statement, should we pay it?
Thanks for any advice
Richard McCaslin
WHY did you buy before survey was done? - Posted by Nate(DC)
Posted by Nate(DC) on August 27, 2002 at 10:23:42:
Richard,
It sounds like you probably should have waited until you had all the information in hand, before moving ahead with the purchase.
This is a perfect example of why “due diligence” is necessary in purchasing real estate!!
I have no idea what the terms of the sale were but if it was city-owned land that was taken for back taxes, my guess is the sale was probably “as is, where is, with all faults, etc etc” so I’d say you might be out of luck. As always, caveat emptor. Maybe talk to a local R.E. lawyer and see if they have a different opinion.
Re: WHY did you buy before survey was done? - Posted by Richard TX
Posted by Richard TX on August 27, 2002 at 11:02:55:
The time crunch got me due to it taking so long to get the survey. This was and is still new to me (RI). I am learning as we go, and may loose on this one. I hope not. This location has the largest traffic flow for this town and our hope is that the city will work with us to get it fixed. The only thing we have come up with is to put a billboard on it and rent out the billboard, but we must have a zoning change and a permit from the city to put up a billboard. If the city is charging us taxes on the road, and they are, doesn’t that mean we own the road, thus giving us a good chip to trade for the zone change and permit?
Posted by David Krulac on August 28, 2002 at 16:23:43:
properties typically go to the centerline of the street/road. this is more typical in rural areas, and formerly rural areas. On the surveyes this is shown as net and gross acreages. The net being after subtracting the part of the property in the road right of way. We’ve had property with several acres difference between net and gross. Some rights of ways are wider, typical here is 50 feet but some are as much as 80 feet wide. also corner lots have more street frontage and therefore less net acreage.
Once we were selling some land and it was 4 acres less than what we bought. Survey had been done BEFORE buying. turns out the attorney handling the sale was using net acreage and the attorney that handled the purchase was using gross acreage. That error was corrected and the gross acreage was transferred to the new buyer. If not we would have ended up owning 4 acres entirely in the streets’ right of way.
Re: WHY did you buy before survey was done? - Posted by Nate(DC)
Posted by Nate(DC) on August 27, 2002 at 16:27:32:
If they are charging you taxes on the road, you most likely DO own the road. However, I would bet that your predecessor in interest granted the city a permanent easement and/or right-of-way over the road, so that even though you “own” it, you cannot do what you wish (i.e. develop it, prevent cars from traversing it, etc.)
I hope it works out for the best for you, but if not, hopefully you learned an important lesson at a cost that wasn’t TOO great.
Posted by Richard (TX) on August 29, 2002 at 09:19:57:
Almost forgot, the property takes the entire street, not half. The property line is about 3 feet outside the curb, thus taking almost 1/2 of the property. The survey company suggested I get a lawyer. From what they tell me the road is not where it is supposed to be. This is why there is no right of way in my openion. Can someone tell me how to find a lawyer that would take on a city. The best lawyer in this area works for the city. (aready contacted him)
Thanks, Richard McCaslin
Posted by Richard (TX) on August 29, 2002 at 08:37:04:
There is no right of way on file and there has never been. The city never filed for a right of way. They owned it, they sold it, I bought it. Can they now say I don’t and still charge me taxes on it? It just does not seem fair or honest.
Posted by Nate(DC) on August 29, 2002 at 22:13:15:
Based on your comment I am guessing you are in a somewhat small town (if there is only one “best” lawyer in the area). If that’s the case I would say go to the nearest town of similar or larger size and get their best lawyer. If you strike out there go to the nearest big city. You’re bound to find someone qualified there.