Can't Eat, Can't Sleep over deal (long) - Posted by linda

Posted by JohnBoy on June 17, 2002 at 12:02:44:

I don’t like the idea of having to give him 30% when you go to resell the property. You say it needs some work which require you to put money into it. It needs tenants to get the place rented. He’s only offering it to you for $645k based on top dollar of $710k.

So basically he wouldn’t be giving you the $60k. He would only be letting you use that money until you resell the property where he would get all that plus a lot more back when you go to resell the property.

Now if he were willing to sell to you for half it’s value where you agree to pay him 30% when you go to resell that may be a different matter. And he would be a partner in this with strings attached. Otherwise how would he secure his interest to insure that he gets his 30% when you go to resell? He may not be an active partner but he would be at least a silent partner with an interest in the property.

He says he needs to sell to settle with his exwife. So maybe just buying out his exwife’s share for 50% interest would be a better way to go instead?

As far as him carrying back the $100k that may or may not be worth the $100k on the paper he is willing to carry. That is assuming the property is worth what he is claiming it is worth!

What does he owe on the property? How much would his exwife be entitled to based on any equity he has?

Is his exwife willing to go along with carrying back the $100k or would he be taking that amount out of his share to carry back the note and use any cash he was to get from your financing to pay off the wife from any of the proceeds?

Lets assume it is worth the $710k. He is willing to sell at $645k and give you $60k cash to use for anything you need to cover your expenses to carry the property. That would be like selling to you for $585k. That’s only 17.6% below market value which is $125k.

So if wants 30% of any future profit, then maybe if he was putting up the $60k where he gets none of that back if any left and any of that that you did use to fix up the property with would be credited back to you at the time of the sale and taking anything left after that to determine the profit amount where he would get 30% of that amount, then that might be something to consider. That way he is buying in by paying you $60k to buy in for 30% of future profits.

On the other hand it sounds like he may be trying to pull something shady here just to get his exwife out of the picture and cut her out of a chunk of her share that she would be entitled to. If that is the case there could be potential problems later if she was to somehow find out about it. So the key here is what is the property really worth? What does he owe on it? How much real equity is involved that he would get from the sale, including the $100k second he is willing to carry and how much of all this equity is going to go to his exwife?

Lets assume he sells for $645k and he owes $400k. That would be $245k in equity which he is going to carry $100k as a second. But half that $245k would be 122,500. So would his exwife be getting $122,500 cash where he would get $22,500 cash and the note for the $100k? Or is this $100k note going to be something his exwife knows nothing about???

What type of an appraisal has he had done on the property? How old is the appraisal? Was it based on the property being rented based on any of the income coming in or based on an “as is” condition without considering the income? If he’s going to have vacancies soon that is going to decrease the value where you wouldn’t want to be paying a price based on what YOU may be able to do with the property and any money you would have to use to fix the place up. You want to base your price on it’s current “as is” condition and deduct for any vacancies there are going to be.

There are most likely many other issues you will need to deal with and know about pertaining to this type of property. Mostly stuff that is beyond my expertise since I never dealt with this type of property. There may even be some potential evironmental issues here concerning any oil and gas contamination from any of the boats being docked there over the years. So that is something you need to look into also. You may need to have the soil tested to insure there is no contamination involved that you will get stuck with having to deal with. Once you are in the chain of title and if this ever becomes a problem you are on the hook forever! This includes years after you sold the place. They can come back to you no matter how many years have passed since you owned the property.

You may post this on the commercial news group as suggested and see what kind of feed back you can get from there. Someone there may know a lot more about this type of property that can help you out more.

Can’t Eat, Can’t Sleep over deal (long) - Posted by linda

Posted by linda on June 16, 2002 at 16:14:23:

Got a call from my mortgage broker last week. He is in the process of a divorce and needs to sell waterfront commercial property by July for settlement with his ex. Here is his offer: $645,000 for 12 boat slips/dock, commercial building with 4 offices, large working area (for boat repair, etc. and a large kitchen (commercial) for steaming crabs (marylander’s love crabs) with indoor and outdoor deck overlooking the Chesapeake Bay. The city has invested 5 million in rennovations for the public boat ramp directly next door. He is willing to take back $100,000 in financing no interest with a balloon in 5 years. He is also willing to put $60,000 in escrow, no strings attached ( money would be in my name ) to use as needed, and he is not asking for it back-only balance in the account when property is sold, if there is anything left. Property appraised at $710,000. He would like 30% of profits after taxes when property is sold. He has owned this property since 1989 and knows the area as well as the local residents. There is currently a tenant in the property but the lease is up in a couple of months. He has 2 prospective tenants already and has asked for 1 year in advance for rent. Does not seem to be a problem with them, but nothing is in writing yet. With my down payment the payments would be approx. $3800 per month. If I don’t get a tenant in there immediately he advised me to use the money in escrow to make the payments ( I couldn’t afford to do it otherwise). He suggested I continue to market the property and sell to the highest bidder. A Sea-Do dealer is looking at the property as well as a yacht club, but there is a 6 month moritorium on building in the area because of rapid growth. Even though he would not be the owner, I need his expertise in marketing this as he is well known in the area. The reason the prospective buyers haven’t already bought the property from him is because of the moritorium. They want to wait to make sure it only last 6 months, and he needs to get out of the property by July. I have spoken with tax attorneys and one thought a LLC would be fine for protection of my personal assets (I have a everything in a trust) the other thought an S-Corp would give me more protection and more tax advantages. He is not a partner, but has a vested interest ($100,000 of his money) in making sure the deal works for everyone, so he would like to stay as active as I will allow him to be. I know very little about commercial property, and comps on this property aren’t easy to come by. The property across the street is a marina, worth $2 million, they are looking to put in the yacht club on the property in a year or so. I know that this has the potential to be profitable, but I don’t like having all my money tied up in one deal. I realize this is long, but I am meeting with him on Wed. 6/19 to beging the application process and I need all the input I can get on this. This deal is literally making me sick. I don’t know if I should be excited or run like crazy the other way. HELP

Re: Can’t Eat, Can’t Sleep over deal (long) - Posted by JohnBoy

Posted by JohnBoy on June 17, 2002 at 05:29:46:

Your post is confusing.

What do you mean by:

“He would like 30% of profits after taxes when property is sold.”

Who is getting the other 70%, his exwife?

Then you say he is putting $60k in escrow, no strings attached, but wants any balance left that isn’t used once property is sold.

But then you state he said you could use that money to make your payments if you didn’t have a tenant right away.

Well how can you use that if he is getting any of that back once the property is sold??? Once its sold and you close on the sale he would be getting any money left in escrow where you would have nothing left to make any payments with!

Or are you saying he would get any escrow money back when YOU go to sell the property? And would he get 30% of profits when YOU go to sell the property?

The way you are explaining this isn’t clear and doesn’t make much sense to me.

Commercial Real Estate Forum - Posted by DB

Posted by DB on June 16, 2002 at 23:12:08:

Post this question in the commercial real estate discussion board. There will be people who can help you there. Click on the commercial rei link, on the side of the website. Then, click on the discussion forum.

HTH

dave

Re: Can’t Eat, Can’t Sleep over deal (long) - Posted by linda

Posted by linda on June 17, 2002 at 09:08:33:

Johnboy: sorry if post is confusing. I am getting the 70% he wants 30% after I sell the property. He has set aside $60,000 for me to keep in escrow for 1-2 years or until I sell the property and use it as needed, for rent for renovations,etc. If any money is left after I sell the property , he would like any remaining money left in escrow, as it is actually his money I am using, and not my own, but it is entirely up to me what I do with the money. He has no control of it as it would be in a escrow account with my name on it, not his. I feel that it would only be fair to give him any remaining money is escrow, or am I wrong.Thanks for your help.