Blood in the Streets? - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on October 21, 2002 at 11:24:25:

Rob,

You got it… in downturns watch for declines in outlying areas from healthy or rising metros… a slowdown will often affect the outlying area first because it was the last to develop. AAt bottom, that’s where the buys are. When the turnaround starts, these areas will come back strong before new areas will develop.

Mind you this is not an absolute science. Trying to predict anything is mostly art and gut instinct. However demographic numbers are telltale signs of activity, often before the media notices. I watch jobs, population growth or contraction, income levels, housing starts and days on market trends (not monthly numbers), etc. to get a feel for where things are headed. I also like areas with multiple demand generators, e.g. various industries, university, tourism, etc.

ray

Blood in the Streets? - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on October 17, 2002 at 18:41:59:

I just got these off of Globe St. news service… I’ve seen a number of indicators lately that things are coming to a head. Is this the tip of the wave, or a drop in the bucket?

------------------article---------------------

50% of Office Markets “Distressed”
According to a new report by Merrill Lynch, nearly half of the 86 office markets that it studied are considered “distressed markets”, meaning that the imbalance between supply and demand for office space is so high that market rates will probably stay depressed for many years to come. The report indicates that the national office vacancy rate rose from 15% at the end of 2001 to 17% at the middle of 2002, and there is little hope for a recovery in the next 18 months. The lack of demand for space is the major cause of the gloomy office market, with nationwide demand shrinking about 4.5% in the last 18 months. Competition for tenants is leading to decreases in rental rates.

Three North Texas Companies Struggling
One hotelier jumps from the NYSE to refuge on AMEX a convenience store/truck stop owner retreats from AMEX to go private; and yet another real estate holder transfers all hard assets to its lender for debt forgiveness. All are based in Dallas-Fort Worth. Wyndham International Inc., under an NYSE red flag for trading below $1 for more than 30 days, will say goodbye to the exchange now that AMEX has cleared the deck for its listing. FFP Partners is voluntarily exiting AMEX and has plunked 166 convenience store/service station properties on the market. CoServ Realty Holdings LP agreed to transfer all real estate assets to a subsidiary of its lender in return for $365 million forgiveness against its related debt to the lender.

-------------------end of articles-----------------------

This is me taking now…

I’ve been pessimistic about recovery talk for the last year. The only sectors yet to display overt failures are residential and retail.

The warning signs are in place for a retail decline (e.g. Walmart has now revised their sales forecast to flat with last year, after forecasting 4-6% increases; Target and others have followed suit; department stores were already reporting negative growth). My guess is that this Christmas season is going to finish the job started last Christmas, and only the discounters will come out with very small same store sales increases. The list of retailers that are paying more for inventory borrowings than their sales margins grows longer each month. Except for credit tenant single user deals, development has ground to a halt. Prices are still firm, likely due to cheap money and the fact that real estate appears to be a safe port from the Wall Street malaise. Money is available at rates like never before, but the fundamentals have changed to emphasize dark asset value (bricks and dirt) rather than income based valuation (cash flow and credit quality).

The holdout is residential. The housing market is propped up by low rates and refinancings. But how low can you go? Indications are the Fed will go another round of cuts, but they don’t have much to work with. And when do the chickens roost? Delinquincies are climbing to higher and higher levels, and foreclosures are also on the rise.

Multi-family has historically weathered downturns well, if not strangled by debt. People have to live somewhere, and we are still making more people. The markets showing weakness are those positioned to flee from… those empty office buildings have empty chairs in them. No job, no prospect of a job = move. Will all markets feel it? No. But the ones that do will be the mine canary for the rest.

Deflation is a word being bandied about in the media, including the usually optimistic sources tied to trade publications. Can it happen? Sure. Will it? War and oil are the wild cards.

Gearing up the war machine will spike productivity, marginally decrease unemployment, and perhaps raise the patriotic spirit. On the downside war will will raise the cost of money due to deficit spending, and destabilize the oil markets. As oil prices and global tensions rise, travel will decline even further than it has already. It is estimated that one in five dollars of our GDP are related to tourism and travel. That’s a significant segment, and the ripples will be waves. But worst, war will divert talent, capital and time away from our real problems.

There will be opportunities for those that are positioned to capture them. It will take patient money and strong credit to catch good properties falling on hard times. Stay tuned.

ray

Any New Thoughts? - Posted by Will

Posted by Will on December 15, 2002 at 18:32:47:

Ray, Any new thoughts as we are near January and probable war with Iraq?

The financial picture will change - but in what way?

Re: Blood in the Streets? - Posted by Mc

Posted by Mc on October 19, 2002 at 09:42:12:

Ray; Are you seeing any safe harbors in view of whats coming in the Real Estate market?
I was wondering if opportunities could be found in picking up MH repo,s that might be dumped on to the market by financing companies in the near future? Maybe converting them into rental subdivisions mixed with lease purchase units?

market indicators from the DC area - Posted by Nate(DC)

Posted by Nate(DC) on October 18, 2002 at 23:28:17:

Have been reading volumniously on this for the past month or two; seems everyone’s got an opinion now and wants to share it. My own feelings based on observable market trends and “word on the street”:

residential market is cooling. We’re seeing sales in the mid-ranges (I’d say, $300K-$600K) slow down after the higher ranges slowed down late 2001-early 2002. The only segments that are still really strong area-wide are under $300K. evidence: things are taking longer to sell than 6 months ago; volume of listings is up. Washington Post real estate classified ads are WAY up - so much so that they’re now understaffed.

We’ve also got 3000 upscale apartment units to be delivered in downtown over the next couple of years - probably doubling to tripling the unit count down there. Already there are rumblings that proformas are being scaled back and some are thinking of developing condos instead.

I am hoping, with my patient money, that this is going to be a good buying opportunity soon. It’s not, yet, in most parts of the DC area. Sellers still think they own the world. They don’t. I think within 6 to 12 months they will figure it out.

NT

Re: Blood in the Streets? - Posted by garrett

Posted by garrett on October 18, 2002 at 16:03:18:

This may not quite dovetail with RobH’s article on SFH’s in Houston, but I did see this article about SFHs (including some in Houston) this morning:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/housing/2002-10-17-high-end-homes_x.htm

Also, I live in a suburb of Houston ($150-$225k houses. built in the late 1970s, early 1980s), and in my subdivision, there have been a lot of houses for sale that aren’t selling. AND, curiously, in just the past month maybe 5 houses have put “For Lease” signs in their yards. A development that prompted me to stop looking for a SFH to rent. Anyone have thoughts on that issue – i.e., whether a spate of “For Lease” signs in a subdivision is a bad sign for the SFH-rental market in that same subdivision?

g

Re: Blood in the Streets? - Posted by RobH_WA

Posted by RobH_WA on October 17, 2002 at 21:23:39:

Dont know if anyone saw the article in WSJ a day or 2 back (“Building Value” section) referring to a study recently completed looking at the best markets to own apartment buildings?

Partial quote:
…in markets like this, the theory goes, the pool of potential tenants will be larger because more people will choose renting over home buying since the prices of the latter are so much higher. What’s more, in these kinds of markets, an apartment-supply glut – which would bring down rent prices – is less likely because there’s generally a lack of available land for apartment building and stricter zoning regulations.

The top-five markets where the gap between rents and median mortgage payments is the widest are Orange County, Calif., Newark, San Jose, San Francisco and Middlesex County, N.J. The five markets where houses are most affordable are Philadelphia, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas and Minneapolis.
Unquote

Well, I know nothing about any of those markets, but it seems to me that what MAY be good for apartment owners in these places is BAD for SFH owners, because (absent other stimuli) there is little possibility of people switching from renting apartments to owning SFH, thus no price support from the renter-switcher segment and no cash flow support for landlording SFHs because of the competing market of relatvely low apartment rents (not to mention high land values “unrewarded” in rent).

There are still plenty of people in denial, but RE can go down as well as up. And if residential starts to falter you can kiss goodbye to retail (feel-good factor from home appreciation, and cash from refis both disappear).

Anyone wanna start a vulture fund?

Re: Blood in the Streets? - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on October 19, 2002 at 14:13:20:

Mc,

I don’t subscribe to the notion that any port is safe in a storm. I keep an eye on the general weather trend and adhere to the practice of sailing around the worst of it.

Our family company is in the process of working through a major transformation that we put into action in the first qurter of this year. In January we felt the RE markets we were in either had already peaked or were close to peaking. This combined with a number of personal factors that created a desire for us to change what we have been doing for the last ten years. Mainly, we are ready to slow down. We identified a number of properties in our portfolio that were management intensive and didn’t fit our future plans, and we decided to sell those assets. To date, we have sold three properties, have two others under contract to sell, and will sell two more next year. We’ve been selling at 8-9% caps on projected income, and have had all the buyers we could handle. One property sold at a 7% cap on projected income… what a market, we may have sold too soon.

Our plan for the capital released in those sales was to re-invest in projects with strong fundamentals. We constructed a small strip center this year that is 70% leased to credit tenants, and was 100% occupied before we completed the building. We will be buying one more credit tenant single-user deal, and possibly constructing another. We did these deals because of tenant strength, market strength, and the availability of cheap money. Another factor that made those deals attractive that even though they are in the retail sector, the tenants are in the discount and pharmecutical segments of retail. I’m comfortable that those sectors will remain strong for the forseeable future, even in the face of a major downturn.

I’ll do maybe two more deals like that next year, and I am in the position of being able to pick from numerous deals that find their way to my desk.

There are some things I wouldn’t do right now.

I wouldn’t start a new residential development of any kind right now. Repo mobile homes are a tough business unless you have a place to out them. But if you do have a place to put them, then the bargains will be outstanding. I have seen the MH business at times when the finance companies filled forty acre fields with repos, and I have stood at auction and bought them at pennnies on the dollar. But a bargain isn’t a bargain until it is put into production, so you have to have a place to put them. That means knowing your market. I’ve seen dealers take repo MHs right back to the same town they were repoed from, and sell them to the same buyers at a lesser cost. And they ofetn wound up being repoed again. That’s a lot of work, and my thought is to go where things are a bit more stable.

I wouldn’t do any spec development of any kind right now. Not in any sector or any market. Things are likely to get worse before they get better, and I don’t want the added weight of carrying a new project in the worst of it.

That’s not to say I’m not ever going to do a new project though. I am making plans right now for new projects. I’m doing preliminary engineering and zoning approvals for projects that don’t have to be built right away, and can be easily started when things turn. Among the property types I like are small office projects and planned unit residential developments.

I will also keep my eyes open for bargains in single family and multi family residential. But I am not out shopping for properties yet. The bottom has not been hit, and it is too early for real bargains. I am watching the bellwether markets that are already collapsing to see what kind of fallout occurs. I’ve got my eye on some markets that I think will be early recoverers, and I want to apply the lessons learned to acquiring properties there. The key to this business is market… we don’t make them, we follow them. So I watch the declining markets for early warnings, and identify the emerging markets as opportunity.

ray

Re: market indicators from the DC area - Posted by ray@lcorn

Posted by ray@lcorn on October 19, 2002 at 14:43:03:

Nate,

I agree with you. I watch the DC/NoVa market because it is so close to my playground in SW Viginia. We haven’t felt the brunt of the slowdown, but we will.

Interestingly, the tougher things get, the markets with heavy gov’t concentrations often become firmer. Heavy government activity e.g. war, security issues, the incessant pilgimages to political power centers, all insulate those markets somewhat from the broader slowdown.

I watch the employment numbers… the demographics follow the jobs. The opportunities are often found in the outlying areas (secondary markets) that will be the first to benefit from the reflected strength of the primary markets.

ray

Re: market indicators from the DC area - Posted by RobH_WA

Posted by RobH_WA on October 19, 2002 at 15:48:32:

Ray,

Not sure I understand what you are saying in your last sentence:
“The opportunities are often found in the outlying areas (secondary markets) that will be the first to benefit from the reflected strength of the primary markets.”

Could you give a hypothetical or real example of what you mean? Eg do you mean secondary markets are more volatile - drop further/faster and rebound ditto.

Thanx