bird dog and injury/damage liability - Posted by Ashley

Real Estate Investing Real Estate Law
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Posted by John Merchant on October 04, 2009 at 16:47:55:

You can specify what you’ll buy(neighborhood, dates you want,etc.) but not how or when he acquires the product, the tools he’ll use, whether he has help, etc., etc…

I once took a substantial amount of $$$ away from an insurance co. after our deceased truck driver was killed in a truck rollover on an icy road.

He’d worked for a hauling co just a short while after he signed a written contract that spelled out in great detail just how he’d drive for that co, the hours he would work, etc., etc.

That contract was drafted by an otherwise very smart lawyer friend of mine, who apparently forgot what he was hired to do and he turned a guy who should have been an IC into that co’s employee because it tied him down with so many directions.

Now this won’t work for every trade or occupation. e.g. in many states a RE Agent CANNOT work as an IC and must be listed as the RE Broker’s E’ee because the states want the REA to be covered by worker’s comp insurance.

Probably true for some other occupations as well, especially licensed ones like barber, beautician, etc.

But for the occasional handyman or bird-dog like this guy is, it’s quite unlikely the state is going to make you list him as an E’ee.

I recently had a handyman come to my door and offer to clean leaves off my roof, out of gutters, etc.

I required him to sign such an agreement so he couldn’t later claim I was his employer and I kept that on file for 3 or 4 years just in case.

Sure, make him prove his ID and even have a 3d party witness the agreement so he can’t later claim his signature was forged.

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bird dog and injury/damage liability - Posted by Ashley

Posted by Ashley on October 04, 2009 at 13:10:52:

Time to step up my marketing. I’d like to recruit bird dogs (local grad students) to make a concentrated search for unlisted vacant/junker properties over a specific area during a specific period of time. I want to collect a list of addresses and photos. I’m going on the understanding that all they’re doing is providing me information, not talking to owners or neighbors, not even getting out of their car.

If I specify the dates when I need the info and the specific areas I need searched, is there an implied employment contract? Am I liable for damage or injury they cause or suffer in the course of bird dogging? God forbid they walk onto a junker property and get stung by yellow-jackets while peeking in a window, then flail around and break the glass. If they insist I pay medical bills and I say I told them not to go up to the house, would it become a he said/she said nightmare? Could the owner say their actions are my responsibility?

What should I be saying (or not!) to cover myself? How do I keep this as simple as possible and still motivate my bird dogs to get out there and beat the bushes? I tried searching archives for “bird dog contract” but the post to which I was referred isn’t online anymore (http://www.creonline.com/legal/wwwboard7/31722). I’m gathering a written agreement is a bad idea.

Maybe I’m overthinking this. Waaaay too much coffee today. Thanks for your feedback!!

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Ind Contractor Agrmt - Posted by John Merchant

Posted by John Merchant on October 04, 2009 at 14:03:32:

You can contract with anybody to be an independent contractor for you…or your employee. Your option and nobody’s business which option you elect.

Here’s the short simple Non Employee Agreement I require anybody doing any work for me to sign.

It ought to work for you too.

"I, George Grad hereby agree that I will, as an independent contractor,undertake the locating of various properties as specified by Aahley Enterprises, LLC.

My services will be performed by me as an independent contractor only and I am not now, nor will I be in the future, in performing these services, in any way, an employee of Ashley Enterprises, LLC or anybody else.

I do not now nor will I in the future work under the supervision of said Ashley Enterprises, LLC, and I will decide how I am to carry out my independent work for that co.

Specifically Ash.Ent., LLC will not direct how, when or where I work, or the hours or days I elect to work.

I will insure myself (or not, at my option)and I agree that I will not be covered by Workers Compensation insurance by Ashley Enterprises, LLC, as I am not and will not be doing any work for that co. as an employee.

No other kind of insurance will be provided to me or for me by said Ashley Enterprises, LLC as that co. will not be employing me in any capacity".

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Re: Ind Contractor Agrmt - Posted by Ashley

Posted by Ashley on October 04, 2009 at 15:34:01:

Great! Thanks, John. I’ve seen lots of your posts and I’m tickled you read mine. Do you get a copy of ID when you do this? Getting Non Employee Agreements signed, not posting to forums, I mean.

The part that reads “…locating of various properties as specified by Ashley Enterprises, LLC”… that means I can specify the tasks to be performed and the criteria for the finished work (ie address list and photos), but I can’t require them to do it an specific manner, time, or place, right?

Since I have a date in mind for my marketing, how do I lead them toward working an area in a time period without violating the “no direction” clause?