Posted by Ryan (NC) on March 19, 2009 at 20:21:51:
Tony Wrote:
“Need I say it but this is yet another reason I prefer to own and rent all my mobile homes”
You make a great point and it guarantees the homes stay and that you won’t have to face this issue! =)
Thank you for this lesson years ago!!! I put a return rate on a home today that I just had a tenant move out of while talking to Chris about meeting tenants expectations with out building McMobile Mansions…
My payment on this unit and the land is $143.57, the home is a 1973 model that has been taken care of for most of it’s life. It ain’t pretty but it’s got a solid roof, a solid floor, 4 walls, and everything works. It has been rented at $325 for 39 of the last 41 months with 3 tenant changes, I’ve put just under $200 in repairs in the unit to date and put a whopping $357 down on it just over 3 years ago.
I am going to have to make a few repairs this time around, there is a piece of molding that needs nailed back up, and Iâ??m going to have to peal up and swap 3 sticky tiles in the kitchen. The carpets could stand to be cleaned but I will most likely waive the deposit and have the tenant do so. My net cost will be $0 as I have extra tiles set back and my mass accumulation of nails surly holds something I can use.
To sum it up I’ve got $557 in this unit and the land and thus far have collected $12,675 in rental payments, paid out $5886.37 in mortgage payments thus netting $6231.63 off this one unit… Not all of them have been as cheap to fix or maintain but there are 7 of these in this little park =) Run that in your calculator folks and see if it beats the banks, I’ve only been inside this unit twice over the last 3+ years for repairs.
I understand when bidding on Repos, that I would need to pay the back taxes, correct ? But I am seeing some Repo’s with 3k in back lot fees…would I need to pay them? Sure changes the way a deal would work or not…
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by JHyre in Ohio
Posted by JHyre in Ohio on March 18, 2009 at 04:12:04:
Depends somewhat on state law. In Ohio, I do not pay back lot rent on repo homes & cannot be forced to do so. In Indiana, on the other hand, back rent constitutes a lien on the home, so I am on the hook there. Banks generally expect you to pay back taxes on the home, so factor it into your price.
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by Tony Colella
Posted by Tony Colella on March 17, 2009 at 18:13:23:
Always assume you will have to pay the back taxes, lot rent and other fees when you bid just in case. Work it into the bid. If you end up negotiating paying less later on then you are out nothing and have improved your deal.
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by Glen (OH)
Posted by Glen (OH) on March 18, 2009 at 16:17:32:
John,
I have bluffed my way into not paying back lot rent on a couple of occasions. I just mimicked you by telling the manager â??someone owes you back lot rent…it just ainâ??t meâ??.
I was directed to the Lexus-Nexus terminal in the local law library by an attorney when I asked about this issue. I wanted to see if there was a test case in Ohio relative to the back lot rent issue but found nothing. Have you found anything to back this up?
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by Anita Mann
Posted by Anita Mann on March 18, 2009 at 16:03:42:
I have been on both sides of this dilemna–as a park owner who needs the back lot rent paid before a home is moved, and as a buyer who hates like heck to pay more for back lot rent than for the home itself. My take on this is that the right thing to do is to pay the back lot rent, when we buy, hoping that other people will do the same when they buy. But, believe me, it does NOT work that way. Just had a home moved out of my park and buyer insisted he did not have to pay back lot rent because NC law says it is not legal. So, what do I do? Block the home? When I threatened that, buyer said he would call the sheriff. I gave in, reluctantly. Guess I will have to consult an attorney to find out what NC law dictates, realizing that, in the end, it will depend on the judge if it goes to court. I would REALLY like to know how others on this site feel about this issue.
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by JHyre in Ohio
Posted by JHyre in Ohio on March 18, 2009 at 17:52:27:
No case of which I’m aware. My theory: When I buy the home, I am not suddenly obliged to pay someone’s else’s debt, in this case, back lot rent. If the park has no lien on the home (they never do), they cannot force me to pay another’s debt, plain and simple. If they interfere with my property (e.g., threaten movers or park a truck in front of the home) I have a cause of action for damages AND a criminal case for extortion (pay me or else…). I’ve never had to threaten to call the cops - but I would do exactly that if push came to shove. Every lawyer I’ve run this across, including a specialist in OH MHP law, has agreed with me. One home that I pulled from a park resulted in a big-shot corporate lawyer calling me and making rude noises on the phone. I explained my position and she made threats…and then quietly instructed the park manager to not interfere with the home or the moving thereof.
The reason Indiana is different is that MHP have an “Innkeepers Lien” which results in an automatic lien on personal property against amounts owed for lot rent. Barring a statute of that sort, I am simply not on the hook for another’s rent.
BTW, when I buy a home from a park, I pay lot rent from the day I buy through the day of the move. I do NOT pay the whole month, nor do I pay for late fees or water. I’ve been confronted on this item a number of times. My response has always been “we do not have a contract stating that I pay a month of rent on the first or on any other date. I will pay you for the actual value received, which is what you would get in court (aka in quantum meruit).” They don’t like it, but it does work. One park owner consulted her lawyer…and he agreed with me.
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by Tony Colella
Posted by Tony Colella on March 18, 2009 at 17:50:23:
I recall on the last repo I bought, the front page of the purchase agreement stated clearly that I, the buyer, was assuming the back lot rent due.
Maybe ask to see the buyers contract for 2 reasons. One to prove the indeed own the home and “are not stealing it” and two, to see if the lot rent agreement isn’t stated there. Whether or not you can enforce it is another matter.
As the park owner I still think you have the ball in your court.
“Mr. Buyer, I have no problem with you calling the Sheriff. In fact, I will call them myself. But while they are on their way, you will kindly note that you are trespassing. Once the Deputy gets here, please show them and I proof of purchase that you own this home and then we can discuss how you are going to move it. Until then, get off my property.”
Never back down when someone says they are going to call the law. That is a bluff. They are using higher authority to scare you. Its your land. What’s the deputy going to do to you? A civil dispute is not going to get setteled right then and there by a deputy in most cases and certainly you won’t get hauled off for a civil dispute. Its your land and that buyer had better have good proof they and their mover are not trespassing. Let the mover know the problem. If they are local and want business in your park, they won’t fight you to get the home. They will let the buyer do that. It takes too long for them to move a home correctly and let’s face it, there’s a good chance someone on that crew has outstanding warrants for their arrest.
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by Ryan (NC)
Posted by Ryan (NC) on March 18, 2009 at 17:39:45:
My thoughts are that the worst thing you can do is try to block the move! In most states claim and delivery prevails over a lien with one person standing there with a clear title and someone else yelling that they are owed money… Sheriff normally says the person with the title (proven ownership) wins, if you’ve got a problem take it to court.
I have had my mover hook the toter up to the front of a full size van and literally drag it outa the way while the sheriff watched and the park owner (censored word) and yelled about us tearing up his van after refusing to move it. I won’t hesitate to call the sheriff if a park owner gets nasty with me and generally will have them directed off the vicinity while my guys move the home.
Calm cool heads will prevail in most every case, unless you have a judgment and a recorded lien it’s next to impossible to force a person to pay back rent. I will play nice with park owners that play nice with me normally paying at least part of the back rent, if the park owner gets nasty they can kiss the thought of getting any cash outa me goodbye.
From the park owner status my stance on initial breakdown would take the point of “how are ya guys doing? Where are y’all moving the home to? Sounds good, just be careful of my _______, O BTW there is xxx in back rent owed on the home… since you guys are moving it I could probably get that cut down some though…”
Taken in a friendly non hostile way it tells you where to find the home if they damage anything (might even get a contact number if you’re nice enough) and opens negotiations on the back rent without creating a hostile environment from the get go…
This is one of those cases where you get much more with sugar than vinegar!
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by Tony Colella
Posted by Tony Colella on March 18, 2009 at 18:28:27:
One question that is raised in your last paragraph regarding paying lot rent only from exact date of ownership to exact date of move might be that, in many states, if you do not have a written lease, the tenancy defaults to a month to month lease.
In NC, one must provide a min of 7 days notice Prior to the end of the month (in a month-to-month lease). One could argue that you owe the balance of the month unless such notice was provided.
Of course the reality of life is that you are current on the rent, you are going to move the home and the park is not going to chase you for a few days of prorated rent, if they could find you.
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by Ryan (NC)
Posted by Ryan (NC) on March 18, 2009 at 20:22:45:
“Never back down when someone says they are going to call the law. That is a bluff.”
That’s not always true, I’m not bluffing when I say it! I’ve had the police at 3 of my moves… I do normally state it AS I’m dialing however.
The common trend I see is that we all take a stance of authority and don’t back down WITHOUT ever getting excited or nasty… Things are just how they are, I own the home or I own the land this is what I’m going to do with MY property.
It’s all in the approach! I really like the purchase agreement idea from a park owners prospective as it’s the other half of the title that I’ve used to insist on instant claim and delivery with a MH title. In retrospect GT does add this and it gives the park owner ammo to retain the home til paid… or at least get the sheriff to ask the mover to leave til things are resolved.
The normal case I see this is when the park owner doesnâ??t buy the home for financial or other reasons and wants to get it basically for free via abandonment. Most park owners that are on the up and up will buy the repoâ??s in their parks to keep them from leavingâ?¦
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by JHyre in Ohio
Posted by JHyre in Ohio on March 18, 2009 at 18:04:54:
Actually, a MH owner would be considered an “invitee” of the park in most cases, meaning that they are not trespassing. Parks are generally viewed as “semi-public”, meaning it is expected that certain people will be there, such as visitors and home owners. Statutes vary from state to state, but that is the general gist of it. In Indiana, we park owners can get a “no trespass” order, but I wouldn’t recommend doing that without a good reason. When we evict people, we get such an order if they return - we had one guy move in as someone else’s roomate after we evicted him, a no-trespass order solved that problem. We’ve also used them to keep abusive types off of the property.
Of course, mine is a technical quibble. I agree that you INSIST that you be paid. I would also not do anything that puts you in a position of Tortious Interference with a Contract (threatening movers) or Extortion (interfering with another’s property until paid). At least not before talking to a NC lawyer to determine what the law there does & does not permit. Asking for proof of ownership IS appropriate, in my view. What to do if such proof is not produced…I’d probably consider a non-owner to be a trespasser after I asked them to depart…but that’s really a guess on my part, you really should talk to a local lawyer. Bruce Berger resides in NC, though he is licensed in FL. Still, I’d be curious as to his take.
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by JHyre in Ohio
Posted by JHyre in Ohio on March 18, 2009 at 18:09:30:
I agree. One difference: In general, I will not pay any back lot rent, but I do go out of my way to be very friendly & polite about not paying the back lot rent.
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by Tony Colella
Posted by Tony Colella on March 18, 2009 at 21:52:16:
In the scenario of the buyer not being able to prove ownership and being asked to leave, especially since they had called the law enforcement officers… here is how I would see it.
Local law enforcement will take control of the situation once they arrive. If the person cannot provide proof of ownership and is being asked to leave the property by the land owner, the police will, in my experience ask that person to comply. Failure to comply will result in immediate arrest. This is unusual but it happens.
The point is let people call the police. I encourage it. I have nothing to hide. If I cannot ban someone from some reason then so be it. No harm, no foul. They get their home.
Need I say it but this is yet another reason I prefer to own and rent all my mobile homes.
Re: Bidding on Repo’s - back fees - Posted by shawn sisco
Posted by shawn sisco on March 18, 2009 at 18:46:29:
I’m sure that there must have been sensible reasons behind these laws that some states have on their books, those laws obligating the lender/repo buyer (anyone besides he who agreed to pay)to pay back lot fees, but I sure can’t imagine what any of them would be…kind of like buying a used car and getting the bill for a bunch of parking tickets the previous owner incured.
I’ve had the police at 3 of my moves… I do normally state it AS I’m dialing however.