best and final offer? - Posted by philip

Posted by Philip on June 18, 2003 at 23:20:28:

I thought maybe they dealt with the inside information to their advantage. Our family did experience that 1 time years ago. Bought right out from under us!
But you have given me a fresh insight. I thought they all probably knew tons of stuff. I WOULD and was thinking of them as investors.

I DO want to make it to an lending as well as real estate seminar…but I don’t know when.

Thanks for all your help,

best and final offer? - Posted by philip

Posted by philip on June 18, 2003 at 18:10:52:

I made my offer on a piece of ground yesterday. The realtor said she submitted it verbally.

I called today and she said that “another offer came in the same day as yours and that the mortgage repo company would probably be calling back and asking for a best and final offer”.

Is this normal procedure, or is this a gimmick to run up the bid amount from me,…or anyone else?

I called to ask for documentation of my bid and she said everything was done verbally at this stage to save the hassle until something was accepted.

I asked how would she know that my bid wasn’t higher and why would they need to ask for a best and final offer…necessarily.

She said she didn’t but that is what the repo companies usually do. It can even be used as a device to get you to raise your bid even though yours isn’t necessarily lower. Basically you would be bidding against yourself.

Is this normal?
It was a 12k bid on land that they had listed at 16k. I really didn’t expect another party to bid higher than that on a repo that not many people know about.
Am I being bamboozled by real estate agents who are dealing with inside information? Maybe passing my bid amount on?

Or should I just chill and raise my bid if I want and not worry about it?

Or dont’ raise my bid because I am being conned? (But still don’t worry about it)

I might mention that this is a steal.
4 acres on Rural water, with 2 electric service in place and 1 rehabable mobile with septic, and 4 total acres of flat ground that perks well, in a good school district,…5-10 minutes from town.


Re: best and final offer? - Posted by Tim

Posted by Tim on June 19, 2003 at 07:08:18:

Around here the realtors always say there is another offer. Maybe there is, & maybe it’s a ploy by the SELLER’S AGENT to get their client a better deal. It is best to decide what the property is worth to you, & stay with that price.

Re: best and final offer? - Posted by Lyal

Posted by Lyal on June 18, 2003 at 22:43:57:

I have little patience for this stuff from agents. It sets off my internal BS alarm. My inclination would be to tell her she has my best and final offer, it’s good for 24 hours and it goes down a grand for each day after that. Not the smartest ploy but it makes me feel better (until I rethink it later).
Did you submit the offer in writing? If so I’d insist it be presented as such and if they want to counter, fine.
All the best, Lyal

Re: best and final offer? - Posted by joddie kesee

Posted by joddie kesee on June 18, 2003 at 19:49:35:

That is the times we live in now!
I live in the houston tx area and every foreclosure is best and final offer . I just pay as much as i can and still make a profit in those situtations and move on.

Only your hair dresser knows. - Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA NV

Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA NV on June 18, 2003 at 19:46:09:

Philip this is a tough call. My first thought is to give the real estate agent the benefit of the doubt as to her honesty. Remember you are playing the same game. You didn’t make a binding written offer either did you? Maybe the agent reads this board too. Maybe she is reading your thoughts right now. Ever think about that?

Remember all the times we’ve been told to always ask at the end: “Is that the best you can do”? That is what she is doing with you. Maybe our own advice has come home to roost.

Philip, I am not a realtor but I think that in most states agents are legally required to submit verbal offers (even if they refuse to do it as a matter of practice). Why not ask a local real estate broker about this on the phone.

Am I being bamboozled? Who knows? Maybe a more constructive question might be how much is this place really worth. If it is worth $50k you should have already made a full price offer. If it is worth $35k you might be better off to make a full price offer. If it is only worth $25k stand pat. If it is worth 18k why are you bidding on it?

Is that an all cash deal? Can you get that much cash?

If you ever want to delay the sale, offer over full price with some seller financing. I mean if you offer 10k cash and an 8k note, since the total is more than their asking price they will have to stop to discuss that, giving you a little more time to be creative.

This brings up another point. Most realtors tell you that you must make your offer in writing and leave a good faith deposti. B.S. and that does’t stand for a Bachelor’s degree in Selling. I do nearly ALL of my offers verbally to save time. Yes I know realtors hate that. Well I hate their way too. Its my dough and I want to be the baker. I manage to get most brokers to work this way. I tell them (especially in cash ofers) that I don’t make my living by making offers. I only earn a profit when I BUY something. I want all negotiation to be done orally. Only if we have a deal do I generally sign. Even then I don’t sign offers. I try to only sign purchase contracts. I generally insist that the seller be present and sign at the same time I do (It often doesn’t work though). I don’t want my offers to be shopped around. By this time most reatlors are ready to hang up on me if we are on the phone, at least until I offer to start escrow immediately and put in a cashier’s check for the full anount of the purchase price. That really changes their attitudes FAST. They stop arguing the minute the begin to smell their comission checks. Many sellers try to delay escrow for as long as possible while they try to raise money to complete their deals. It is a refreshing change to them when I don’t. If you have that strength working for you use it to the max. I tell them they can close escrow in a week if they can move that fast (they can’t). The party who has the gold makes the rules. Agents don’t make a dime when they get a listing. They have lots of listings but rarely any money. Its the buyer who provides the money that pays them, not the seller. The buyer’s money deserves a little respect. Try to make your own rules in life when it concerns YOUR money.

Make oral offers and only sign purchase contracts. Folks its not against the law to do it your way in most cases. Why do you let real estate agents dictate to you how it is going to be done with your money. When you find an attitude like that call another agent. Three out of every two people in town have real estate salesmen’s licenses.

One more tip: If you don’t like middlemen then why do so many of you make your offers through TWO of them by offering through non-listing agents? Ever think about that?

Do you suppose an agent would work harder for you if he got paid twice as much? You bet he would. Then why not make your offers through the listing agents themselves?

Regards, doc

Re: best and final offer? - Posted by Philip

Posted by Philip on June 19, 2003 at 08:37:55:

So this is just a common tactic, and not necessarily a realtor acting on inside information, or shopping my bid around?


I just called an old friend - Posted by Philip

Posted by Philip on June 18, 2003 at 23:25:26:

who is a realtor of many years and he said, “go have them put this one in writing, something smells fishy”

He did say that many are done verbally, though.

I AM going to submit it in writing, if I can get it done, before their…“best and final” thing.

Thanks Lyal,

My Hairdresser Would Starve - Posted by Tony-VA/NC

Posted by Tony-VA/NC on June 19, 2003 at 24:03:06:

Craig, one minor point on which I beg to differ.

Though your thought of 2 commissions equals greater compliance makes sense, I would suggest that dealing with only selling agents limits your opportunity and time.

A buyer’s agent who is willing to routinely work the MLS for your selected criteria, who will run down the information for you that the sellers cannot seem to find, who will continue to work with you to find future deals (not just listings) is a very valuable asset.

Many Gurus suggest that success comes through playing the numbers. Yes, I suspect they are right. Reality…well, you wear out a lot of agents in the process. Chasing shadows so to speak. Thus, I agree with signing contracts and not offers (at least in this stage of my game).

If you have buyer’s agents who know what you seek, who understand that you don’t pay retail and know how you operate, the value is immeasurable. It does take training (on both sides to some degree), but once you have it, you have an assembly line.

I prefer to have the agent work to find MLS listings, run down information and submit contracts (on the targets I have chosen) while I work the other pipe lines such as bandit signs, ads stating what and how I buy, word of mouth etc.

I agree that we need not fear agents as for the most part; we and they are not after the same game. But by including and training them as a member of our team we afford ourselfes the opportunity to multiply our efforts and our effective range.


Re: Only your hair dresser knows. - Posted by Philip

Posted by Philip on June 18, 2003 at 21:11:59:

Thanks, Doc
You have at least made me feel a little bit better about verbal offers…and yes…I would love to operate that way, if I can depend on it. This realtor was really happy to know I would close quickly.
I called an old family friend who has been a realtor in our town for 40 years, and who we used to buy through occasionally.
He likes to see the offer done in writing…if he was to be buying…so that he KNOWS it got submitted.

BUT he ALSO said…it was a hard call to make…she might be above board all the way(the other realtor).

I offered below market value…and is it not the least bit strange that land with shoulder height grass and weeds suddenly has a bid the same day as mine? I dont know…

I just thought another realtor was probably going to get the inside track.

Re: best and final offer? - Posted by Tim

Posted by Tim on June 19, 2003 at 12:21:50:

I don’t know about other areas, but it happens a lot here. To be fair to the realtors, most of the time there is another offer. I don’t have any interest in getting into a bidding war, I know what the property is worth to me, & make my offers accordingly. I have missed out on a few good properties this way, but I haven’t overpaid(IMO) for one yet.

Realtors and agents are NEVER a threat… - Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA NV

Posted by Dr. Craig Whisler CA NV on June 18, 2003 at 22:20:38:

… as competitors. In all my life I’ve probably met a thousand real estate professionals and only two were competent investors.

Would you work for 2%-3-% of the deal. Thats what most agents get for selling others’ listings. The 6% comission goes 3% to the listing office and 3% to the selling office. Then the office usually takes 1%-1 1/2% and the salesman get what’s left: PEANUTS. Unless your name is Carter forget the peanuts. Do you know why anyone would work for peanuts? I do. IGNORANCE. I don’t mean that in a derogatory way. Most agents work very hard. They just don’t know a bettr way to make money, but YOU do. If the investor will make from 25-200% and the salesman makes 1%-2% do you suppose he is smart enough to be any competive threat? If you answer yes, Philip, we’ll have to get out the mirror again. If the salesman knew how to make what you do, do you suppose he would be, selling or buying? There is simply NO usable 'investment" knowlege floating around real estate ofices. I mean NONE. NEVER be intimidated by a licensed real estate agent or broker. They don’t know how to make money. They only know how to fill out offer forms and sell things to people who have money. No money in that for salesmen. You will find 100 investors on this board for every licensed real estate professional who works full time in that field.

Correct me if I’m wrong Philip but I think you are new and have just finished your second deal, right? Well if you go to next years’ real estate agents convention you will be able to skin them all on any deal you do with them. Philip You are ALREADY light years ahead of any but two of the thousand real estate professionals that I’ve met. No need to be intimidated by agents. They just fill their credit cards with expensive looking toys to make you think they are making big money at 1%-2% per deal. What do you think?

Regards, doc

Re: best and final offer? - Posted by Philip

Posted by Philip on June 20, 2003 at 11:35:59:

I just returned from a night out of town with my work and I am supposed to call her…we will see, I allready know what I will bid…and if it doesn’t work out…I will just look around some more!
Thanks for the info!