Posted by IB (NJ) on January 02, 2003 at 21:42:09:
Actually, this is very helpful. I just signed up, thanks. I’m hoping to be able to decipher the information to determine if the house in question was released by the trustee.
Thanks again.
Bankruptcy question - Posted by IB (NJ)
Posted by IB (NJ) on January 02, 2003 at 17:01:13:
Got in touch with a missing homeowner who thought, as a result of a chap. 7 BK she filed in 97 (dismissed in 99), that she no longer owned the property (house is abandoned and boarded up). Yet she comes up as the owner in the lis pendens and on the latest deed. She says she had a couple of liens on the property. It looks like it may be the 1st lien holder foreclosing on her (I’ll confirm this).
Is it possible that the property didn’t get included in the chap. 7 BK (it was a rental property at the time) ? How should I proceed?
Thanks in advance.
Re: Bankruptcy question - Posted by Clare Z
Posted by Clare Z on January 03, 2003 at 09:48:41:
hellooooo! "as a result of a chap. 7 BK she filed in 97 (dismissed in 99), " - If it was dismissed, then nothing was discharged in the bky and she did not clear ANY debts.
Also, property is often listed in the bky, but not discharged, meaning that they still own/owe on the property.
If she is listed as owner - see who her has her note and work with the two of them.
CZ
Re: Bankruptcy question - Posted by JoeKaiser
Posted by JoeKaiser on January 02, 2003 at 21:43:25:
I’ll take a little different route than JT-IN. My first move would be to get a deed from her for $100 - $500 and then move on to getting title.
The problem with the bankruptcy file is that if it’s like the ones I’m used to seeing, you really can’t make heads or tails out of it anyway. I’d much rather let my title company figure out what’s there or what isn’t.
She’s ready to go. Get deed, get title, close if appropriate . . . walk if not. But do it now.
Joe
Re: Bankruptcy question - Posted by JT-IN
Posted by JT-IN on January 02, 2003 at 18:04:50:
IB:
You should immediately access her case file. This can be done at the local BK court, someitmes requiring an advance order a day in advance, so call first before showing up to see the file. You will need her name, or SSN to access the file.
The odds are good that the mtg company was named in the BK. Yes she still owns the house, and yes… she could sell it to you, since the BK is discharged, assuming that the Trustee released this asset… and they probably did.
Just because the property was named in the BK doesn’t mean that she wouldn;t still own it. Even in a BK, the Bank must still foreclose following the relief from the stay of BK.
Once you determine that the lender was named, and that the BK Trustee has released the asset, then you should contact the Lender to see if they want to sell the mtg… at a huge discount of course. If that doesn’t suit you, then just arrange to purchase the proeprty from the owner, and sell it before the foreclosure is filed, or completed.
Just because there was a BK filed, doesn’t mean you can’t buy this property Subject To… cure the defaulted amount, and reinstate the loan. Again, I would not attempt this until I saw if they Lender was interested in selling the paper first. IMHO, you may be able to negotiate a bigger discount going about it this way, if this fits your pocektbook.
Just the way that I view things…
JT-IN
Re: Bankruptcy question - Posted by IB (NJ)
Posted by IB (NJ) on January 02, 2003 at 19:44:34:
Thanks JT:
I thought I read somewhere that all property/assets included in a chap.7 were liquidated and creditors paid? Why wouldn’t this property have been liquidated?
She more than likely filed the BK. Would that mean I would have to go to NY and get a copy of the file or since it’s federal, any federal court would have it?
Thanks again.
Re: Bankruptcy question - Posted by JT-IN
Posted by JT-IN on January 02, 2003 at 22:00:22:
IB:
Since the “how to access the files” Q is answered… I’ll deal with the 1st Q…
“all property/assets included in a chap.7… Why wouldn’t this property have been liquidated?”
The property in question, is encumbered and there are one or more SECURED creditors… Secured is the operative word. The other piece of info for scrutiny is EQUITY. If after all the encumbrances of the SECURED creditors, there is little remaining equity, (on the order of 80% or more encumbered), then the Trustee will not usually deal with the asset, and release it from the BK’s control. Once this occurs, then the asset is fair game to be sold by the owner. It is a misnomer that once a BK (Ch7) is filed that the owner no longer owns or controls the asset. After release by the Trustee, the owner has total disposal as if a BK never occured.
As Joe K says, get control… before someone else does. Good luck on it.
JT-IN
Shhh: Secret BK file access info … - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on January 02, 2003 at 21:22:51:
IB–(NJ)--------------
This may not be completely helpful for this situation, but you can have an account with the bankruptcy courts to access part of theinformationi in their files on the internet or by dialup phone lines.
This is called PACER – Public Access to Court Electronic Records – and there are some relatively modest fees involved. You can set up for more than one bankruptcy court with the same account and password.
Info: names, addresses, SS#, closed/dismissed/open; atty names, address, phone number; date filed, type of bankruptcy; log of actifities in the case–hearings, papers filed, orders, etc; Claims filed: creditor, address, amount, secured or unsecured.
You can access by debtor’s names, SS#, or BK case number.
No set-up cost for an account.
So this Lets you Do It in your home office.
Good InvestingRon Starr*******
Shhh: Secret BK file access info … - Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA)
Posted by Ronald * Starr(in No CA) on January 02, 2003 at 21:22:16:
IB–(NJ)--------------
This may not be completely helpful for this situation, but you can have an account with the bankruptcy courts to access part of theinformationi in their files on the internet or by dialup phone lines.
This is called PACER – Public Access to Court Electronic Records – and there are some relatively modest fees involved. You can set up for more than one bankruptcy court with the same account and password.
Info: names, addresses, SS#, closed/dismissed/open; atty names, address, phone number; date filed, type of bankruptcy; log of actifities in the case–hearings, papers filed, orders, etc; Claims filed: creditor, address, amount, secured or unsecured.
You can access by debtor’s names, SS#, or BK case number.
So this Lets you Do It in your home office.
Good InvestingRon Starr*******
Re: Bankruptcy question - Posted by IB (NJ)
Posted by IB (NJ) on January 03, 2003 at 16:31:49:
I talked to the owner again and got a clearer picture of what may be owed on the property. The 1st lien holder appears to be the one (again I’ll confirm this probably on Monday after I get a signed contract) foreclosing. She says’s there also 2 junior mortgages worth about $50k and $20k respectively. Taxes owed is about $7200 (total abot $110k). So the property is indeed over encumbered. I need to get the total owed to no more than $55k-60k to make this thing work. Is it realistic to get the junior lien holders to discount THAT much?
I wanted to try the option Joe talked about but the owner mentioned that someone approached her (she says a junior lien holder) to get her to quit claim the property to them but she didn’t want to continue having ties to the property. Does this make sense? I thought the quit claim deed would be best for the seller since it releases them of all liability to the property?