Posted by JHyre in Ohio on March 11, 2000 at 05:46:29:
By cash-out costs I mean fixed fees charged to originate a loan. If I’m talking someone off of one of my notes into Conseco loan, I pay those fees($600 to $2000, depending on who I use). When I say they are lower for a large note, I mean proportionally so. In other words, paying $1000 to cash out a $15,000 note hurts alot less than paying the same $1000 to cash out a $6000 note.
Anyone with experience getting buyers qualified with Conseco?(NT) - Posted by d.henderson
Posted by d.henderson on March 07, 2000 at 08:31:11:
That’s how I put food on the table - Posted by Jacob
Posted by Jacob on March 07, 2000 at 10:02:43:
I deal with mobile homes as a living, and csh out my deals with Conseco.
They charge high rates (14.25%) and 6 or 7 points, but they are quite flexible as far as buyer requirements. Basically a $1200 monthly income is the main requirement.
Call Justin Miller at 1-800-884-8424 for more info.
p.s. What’s interesting to me is that nobody ever mentioned cashing out of mh deals before I came around. Now, it seems to be a hot topic.
Re: That’s how I put food on the table - Posted by Tom
Posted by Tom on March 07, 2000 at 15:25:18:
What are some of the other Requirements: LTV, downpayment, appraisal (if so, how much are MH appraisals)?
Thank you very much,
See below post entitled “Simple Answers.” - Posted by Jacob
Posted by Jacob on March 07, 2000 at 18:11:04:
there are many ways to skin a cat - Posted by Gator
Posted by Gator on March 08, 2000 at 08:39:00:
I am enlightened when I read about some one else’s method of doing business. I too occaisionally cash out with Canseco. I also do owner financing when necessary. I would not dare to tell you that you’re doing business incorrectly and that you should go read a book if you are able to put food on the table and are happy with what you do. To each his own. I assume you do have some investments and that you don’t live from deal to deal. What do you invest in? Why not mobile home notes you can create at 18%? Just curious.
Best wishes for success,
By the way you seem to keep bringing up how you were flamed a couple of weeks ago when you brought up the idea of cashing out with Canseco. Why not just chill and drop it? Do YOUR business the way YOU want to and go on but never close your mind to new ideas. Just my humble opinion and advice. Kinda like never kick a cow chip on a hot day. Again, Best Wishes.
Jacob, read Kiyosaki’s Cash Flow Quadrant… . - Posted by MikeOK
Posted by MikeOK on March 08, 2000 at 06:41:56:
Your talking about nothing more than working for commissions. It shows your lack of sophistication in investing.
Great way to stay middle-class.
Re: there are many ways to skin a cat - Posted by Jacob
Posted by Jacob on March 08, 2000 at 10:13:12:
Thanks for the response and the support.
I don’t really like mh notes (my opinion only) because I deal with mh buyers on a daily basis. Generally, the financial situation isn’t the best. In fact, that is the usual justification offered for the high yields (see Dirk’s “Ugly Duckling” post in January.) I somply don’t want to sit around and wait to repo a unit. I’d rather Conseco worry about that. I also have been told by some that there can be a 35% default rate on these notes. If I am going to rely on these notes for my living, I would like something a little more secure than that.
The majority of my living does come from cashing out, at least right now. I expect that to end completely by the end of this year. I simply haven’t been doing these deals long enough to create enough other investments.
My comment about having been attacked 2 months ago for this very same topic was a valid point. I was simply happy that this is a topic that can be discussed here without the endless negative crap coming from those sitting on the sidelines watching. (See the response below from Mike.) I didn’t like being told two months ago that I was not a “real” mh investor because I didn’t do deals exactly how Lonnie described in his books. As you pointed out so colorfully in your headline, there are many ways to skin a cat. (At least I think there are, but I’ve never done it. ) I am happy to see that this is finally a legitimate topic on this board. It wasn’t intended to be a “woe is me” type statement. I wasn’t asking for sympathy. Just wanted to point out the obvious differences.
Re: Jacob, read Kiyosaki’s Cash Flow Quadrant… . - Posted by tb
Posted by tb on March 09, 2000 at 20:16:05:
I think it
s safe to say that you have been "dissed". Thanks for coming and dont forget your complimentary drink coupon on the way out.
Back off Mike… - Posted by Dirk Roach
Posted by Dirk Roach on March 09, 2000 at 08:17:13:
personally I see personal attacks as saying a lot about sophistication.
You know in my various businesses I deal with all level’s of people. I would be costing myself money if I only dealt with this or that level of person. And losing money is not what I am in business to do.
Basically I don’t care about level’s of sophistication. What I do care about is if a particular person can get the job done. In fact that is my only requirment in doing business with whomever.
It seems from his posts that Jacob is getting his job done. What’s the problem?
Although personally I like to be a little more diversified in my MH dealings than Jacob is in his (And remember folks that is an observation gained only from reading a his posts here on this forum, heck he maybe playing other areas as well, who knows)
Anyhow, all and every successful business has various systems in place that make the business work. Think of systems as the circulatory system of the business. It is not only the blood but also the arteries, lungs etc. that power the mussels of the business.
It seems from reading his (Jacobs) post that he has a system in place for his business. He has been sharing various aspects of that particular system.
The cool thing about this forum is that you can share insights etc. not only for the benefit of others, but also you get like ten thousand people a day looking at your insights and working on improving them (or pointing out other alternatives).
So give the guy a break.
Something that I have learned is that no one knows everything about everything.
The problem with dogma… - Posted by JHyre in Ohio
Posted by JHyre in Ohio on March 08, 2000 at 11:12:20:
is that rational discussion goes out the window. Quoting Kiyosaki as if he were Scripture is bogus- it precludes analysis of alternate theories and facts. This approach is fantastically closed-minded.
Understanding what Kiyosaki says and WHY he says it then applying it to the facts is key. To wit:
Kiyosaki reccomends building cash flow so you don’t have to work. Having money is not necessary to build cash flow, but sure is helpful. Jacob is certainly building capital given his cash-out methodology. Depending on the differential between the price at which he sells for cash and the price at which could sell a MH on a note, his annual return by cashing out is 99.9999% likely to be well-above that generated by Lonnie deals. These massive chunks of change he’s generating are in turn reinvestyed in more flips- generating even more capital. Unless I’ve missed the mark on Jacob, that capital will eventually be reinvested in income-producing assets other than MH notes. Depending on the velocity of turnover on his deals, he has a very strong chance of producing MORE cash flow in hassle-free investments using this method than he would on classic Lonnie deals. This is not meant to denigrate Lonnie’s methodology. Rather, it is a twist- and depending on how the flip proceeds are invested- an improvement. Part of deciding if Jacob’s method is an improvement over Lonnie’s awesome ideas turns on subjective issues- perception of hassle & risk when it comes to mobile home notes and WHEN one wants the cash flow.
Whether I personally cash out or carry depends on the MH in question. I carry on cheap homes with large mark-ups. I intend to cash out on the more expensive, longer term notes. The fixed transaction costs incurred upon cashing out are much easier to bear on a larger, as opposed to smaller, investment. For example, I will keep an $8000, 4-year note created with $2000 of investment because the yields are good and the cash out cost ($600 to $1500) are high in proportion to the final amount of cash received. But a $15,000 8-year note in which I have $4300 is a great candidate for cash-out- the yield is lower on the note, and the $600 to $1,000 cost of cashing out is low compared to the cash received.
If Jacob simply spends his cash out proceeds on doodads, he is tying himself to a job- a sacrifice he may be willing to make, depending on his personality and goals. If he eventually creates cash flow with his rapidly growing pile of payola, he is consistent with Kiyosaki’s philosophy and thereby conforms with the dogma.
And if he doen’t conform with the dogma- so what. I happen to like Kiyosaki’s points and agree that cash-flow is what I EVENTUALLY want. Not everyone agrees.
If you are going to attack someone:
- Check your premise;
- Be ready to argue on other premises;
- Examine the facts;
- Argue based on said facts;
- Make a constructive point;
- Lose the 'tude.
Thanks for the positive feedback! - Posted by Jacob
Posted by Jacob on March 08, 2000 at 10:03:03:
Thanks for your advice regarding Mr. Kiyosacki’s book. I can assure, however that I have read it several times. It seems to me that perhaps you should read it again. You see, in his book (in fact, in almost all of his books) Mr. Kiyosacki suggests lerning to create cash to invest in income producing assets. Nowhere did you read that the only investment I have or will ever have is cashing out of mobile homes. It’s simply good way to generate cash to put into more secure investments. When the time comes for me to entirely live off of my investments, I want them to be just a little more secure than notes with a 35% default rate.
That, my friend shows a little more sophistication and intelligence than you gave me credit for.
Therein lies the difference between actually going out and doing deals on a daily basis, and sitting on your computer making negative posts to people. While you are furiously typing away, coming up with great attacks against me and others, I am actually making money and sharing thoughts, tips and ideas with others. I could talk about the deal I’ll close tomorrow, where I’ll sell a mh 3 hours after I purchase it for an $8500 profit. Not a bad “commission.”
Bottom line is, if you don’t have anything that actually adds to the info being presented here, then don’t say anything. The negative garbage you spewed in the above post was needless and unneccessary.
For that matter, it doesn’t say much for your sophistication.
As good as Real Estate! - Posted by Terry Vaughan
Posted by Terry Vaughan on March 08, 2000 at 16:53:58:
Just a quick asside to let you know MH notes perform as well as Real Estate notes, to the surprise of many.
The secret is how you service the portfolio. BofA usually has less than 1% default rate at the end of each years reporting period. GreenTree (Conseco) the same.
Duff and Phelps did a long study of MH paper (for securitization study) and found as long as you had at least 10% hard cash down and serviced agressively, the default was no worse and in some states better than Real Estate.
(Keep this quiet - don’t want the word to spread too quickly)
Thanks for the vote of confidence Dirk - Posted by Jacob
Posted by Jacob on March 10, 2000 at 08:41:43:
Mobile Home cash out costs? - Posted by RobertR CO
Posted by RobertR CO on March 10, 2000 at 19:25:09:
Would you be willing to explain in a little more detail what your cash out costs are and why they would be lower (from the ranges you mentioned) on a larger note.
Well Said!! You can argue my case in court anytime! - Posted by Mikeb(SC)
Posted by Mikeb(SC) on March 08, 2000 at 18:28:38:
I couldn’t have said it better myself! - Posted by Jacob
Posted by Jacob on March 08, 2000 at 16:23:23:
You articulated my thoughts and ideas better than I probably could have. Thank you for having the courage to speak up and make a valid point, whether it supports me or not. It has nevver been my place to say that there is only one way to do this, contrary; my point frmo day one has always been there are many valid methods of mh investing. I simply believe that generating cash is the main priority for me.
Thanks again for stating it so well.
Well said!!! (nt) - Posted by George (OH)
Posted by George (OH) on March 08, 2000 at 14:44:13:
I humbly stand corrected - Posted by Jacob
Posted by Jacob on March 08, 2000 at 17:01:05:
I wasn’t speaking from experience (as far as rate of default) I was simply going by what I have been told by others.
What you said about 10% and methods of servicing the notes makes a great deal of sense to me, and I know about 1/5454574th about paper as you do.
Thanks for the real-world experience and advice. I might begin to consider creating some notes as part of my strategy.