Any faster way to paint? - Posted by Mel Lang (NC)

Posted by Bill (NY) on June 25, 2002 at 08:22:06:

Mel

You say that after 1 week the latex paint peeled off the oil base coated trim in sheets. Thats an adhesion problem for sure. Trim work is usually painted with a least a semi-gloss but in most cases high-gloss as these finishes are the most durable, they need to be prepped properly. I never really sand anything I’m re-painting, I scuff it. 3M makes scuff pads which are almost like steel wool but are made with man made fibers. Use these pads to scuff up any glossy surface you are painting. The purpose of scuffing is to increase the surface area of the surface you are painting by creating little ridges and valleys. After scuffing make sure you wipe down the surface with a damp rag to remove any dust which will also prevent adhesion if not removed. In my experience sanding is not as effective as scuffing. The ridges and valleys sanding creates are too large.

Just to give you another example of painting over oil with latex, I’ve painted over latex paint with oil paint on steel doors. The latex paint was orginally painted over oil paint. So it was oil, latex, oil in that order and it is holding up well. Be sure to use a quality paint. I always use B. Moore paints. The paints you find at the big warehouse building supply places are crap.

Any faster way to paint? - Posted by Mel Lang (NC)

Posted by Mel Lang (NC) on June 19, 2002 at 06:36:36:

Most houses I buy were last painted in the 1960’s or 1970’s with oil based paint. I have been told by paint “experts” that the only way to get latex paint to stick to oil based paint is to apply a coat of oil based primer first. Therefore, when I rehab, I usually sand or degloss, put one coat of oil based primer and then one or two coats of latex paint. Is there anyway to skip the primer coat? Anybody have any tips on how to speed the process up?

I have a professional grade sprayed but I don’t use it for the primer because I don’t want to mix the oil and latex inside the equipment.

Thanks for your help!
Mel

Re: Any faster way to paint? - Posted by GL(ON)

Posted by GL(ON) on June 21, 2002 at 16:53:30:

That’s nuts. I’ve heard the same thing and it is a bunch of hooey.

I use nothing but latex now. About 5 years ago I got sucked in by a so called professional painter who gave me the old “use oil primer and latex paint” jazz. It started peeling within months. What a mess. I pressure washed it and painted with latex over latex primer and no more problem - except the oil job kept peeling until it was all off, so I had to keep painting every year as it went.

Now all the so called professional painter’s work has peeled off and I have redone it in all latex.

By the way this was expensive paint, Benjamin Moore, and the paint dealer backed up the painter’s story. I had to fight like H-ll to get them to stand behind their product. Finally I got the Benjamin Moore rep out and he replaced the paint, but the painter refused to come good for the labor so I had to redo it myself.

Re: Any faster way to paint? - Posted by mark(AR)

Posted by mark(AR) on June 19, 2002 at 23:08:33:

agree with above…go ahead and spray everything…just flush out rig between products(if using oil clean with mineral spirits, then follow with water before using latex)…i use a product from zinsser called cover stain…it is an oil based bonding primer that kilz stains and odors(i even spray floors)

Re: Any faster way to paint? - Posted by Bill (NY)

Posted by Bill (NY) on June 19, 2002 at 07:45:18:

Mel

Having painted over lots of oil paint with latex in the commercial field, without any primer, I only have one bad story to tell.

I was painting a large conference room once on the 3rd floor of a well known bank. The room hadn’t been painted in a long time and being on the 3rd floor it was hot because the building was old and so was the HVAC. Well I scuffed up the walls with my sanding pole, using sanding screen because it lasts a lot longer, wiped the walls down with a wet rag to get the dust off and started to paint. I had finished painting one wall and was onto the next when I heard this drawn out crackling sound, so I turned to look. What I saw was like something out of a horror movie.

The final skim coat on the plaster walls I was painting was popping off the wall, coming towards me like a wave at the rate at which I had painted the wall. Turns out the walls were so dry that they sucked up the moisture from my wet rag and the paint too fast. As the paint dried it trapped the moisture under the layer of paint. As the moisture tried to escape it pushed the skim coat off the wall because the paint wouldn’t budge, if it didn’t peel then it never would. This is basically the same thing that happens when you see paint peeling from a wood sided house, or concrete. Moisture is almost always the culprit

I’m sure to let the walls dry a little longer now after wiping them down when painting plaster walls with latex, it dries too fast.

One more thing, don’t be afraid to mix oil based and latex paints in your sprayer. As long as you flush it out real well after each use. After oil, flush with mineral spirits. After latex, flush with water. I’ve never had a problem using my sprayer this way.

My $00.02
Bill(NY)

Re: Any faster way to paint? - Posted by Ed Reilly

Posted by Ed Reilly on June 19, 2002 at 07:42:51:

Not what you wanted to hear, but hire someone, and spend the free time finding more houses.

Re: Any faster way to paint? - Posted by JoeS

Posted by JoeS on June 19, 2002 at 06:55:39:

You may already know this but you should be careful when sanding lead based paint. It may be more dangerous to you than asbestos. Always wear a respirator. Anyway I use a 100% acrylic primer by Bennie Moore called “Fresh Start”. Light sanding, 1 coat of this primer and 1 coat of latex works great. It is water based so you do not have to clean out your sprayer. It is available for interior and exterior. Not cheap but an excellent product. No, I am NOT a BM rep or anything like that! Hope this helps.

Re: Any faster way to paint? - Posted by Mel(nc)

Posted by Mel(nc) on June 24, 2002 at 21:13:57:

Bill,

Thanks for you response.

I tried painting the interior trim one house using latex directly over oil based paint and a week later it peeled off in solid sheets. What is you secret for getting the two to stick? I even sanded the trim in this particular house.