Posted by Alexander (FL) on August 25, 2006 at 09:02:35:
Dave,
I laughed upon reading your gas company analogy. Thanks. You made the point clear.
I can tell you live in a cold place, living in Miami, I would never think of that kind of analogy…
Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Peter
Posted by Peter on August 23, 2006 at 16:58:00:
millions? What gets me about these so called real estate ‘gurus’ making millions. Why not keep it to yourself and make more millions. Obviously, these guys aren’t really doing that well as they say. Guys like Carlton Sheets, John Alexander, etc. These guys did not really do well, thus having to sell their courses to make money. Think about it, if i really made millions in real estate, i sure in the hell would not share my secrets.
Re: Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Peterg
Posted by Peterg on August 28, 2006 at 18:39:29:
Peter… Several posts have referenced Harv Eker. Although he is in the “Success” selling business his premise is absolutly correct. And that premise is… if you can’t rejoice in the success and wealth of others, how can you ever expect that you are ready for that wealth and success. So wealth accumulation is more a matter of conditioning then your particular efforts.
Also, consider that many turely successful individuals know they did not get where they are through their efforts only. Without exception, every wealthy individual I have ever known is generous and they give back in any way possible, and some charge for the opportuinty to learn what they have perfected. Mr. Eker above and Dan Kennedy a marketing “guru” spend more then a few moments on the subject of giving and how rewards are reaped on the givers whether they have that expectation or not.
So Peter, your challenge is to determine how much success and wealth you want in your life and how much you are willing to “grow” into that situation. A good place to start would be a little reading. Try these for starters, Think and Grow Rich, The Millionaire Next Door, The Millionaire Mind, Secrets of the Millionair Mind, Success Principles, No BS Wealth Attraction for Entrepreneurs… the list is exhaustive.
Best of Luck to the dynamics of your success.
Peter Giardini
Here’s how it goes … - Posted by Frank Chin
Posted by Frank Chin on August 25, 2006 at 17:47:54:
Peter:
- For someone struggling by from “$7.00/hour job” world, success is defined as retiring somewhere, sit and the beach and do nothing. And why is that??
Because folks like these has no knowledge whatever to impart, and no ambition beyond doing nothing.
- For someone who made $100,000,000 and has millions more rolling in, does he want to sit on the beach, or make millions and millions more??
He will instead spend millions and millions, and run for Senator like the Lamont guy of CT. Or like Corzine, currently governor of NJ, spend over 50 million for that senate seat, or Bloomberg of NY, spending millions more on a mayoral job, and taking $1.00 in salary.
Does working and serving the public means more than millions and millions more??
For others, like the guy tired of making millions on RE, can turn to teaching, and for the lack of a better phrase, to return something to society.
At least those teaching be making millions rather than giving away millions, if that makes any sense to you.
BTW, teaching is not revealing secrets. Success requires common sense, and business sense which cannot be taught.
- For Guys like Bill Gates who made 50 Billion in a software empire, does he want to make another 50 Billion?? Guess not.
OR does he want to spend the rest of his life giving it away, with his pal Warren Buffet joining him, or like the Rockefeller’s the Fords, the Andrew Carnegies before them.
An old Chinese proverb says it the best.
One whose worth millions and millions can need only one bed to sleep in each night.
Meaning
At a certain point, millions and millions more means nothing, meaning you need only one bed to sleep in, you can eat so many meals a day, live in one home at a time, wear a pair of pants at a time, putting it on one leg at a time. But, not needing millions and millions more is a concept meaningless and imaginable to the guy living in the $7.00/hour world.
In the $7.00/hour world, successful people either sit around doing nothing, or do the same thing over and over till they drop dead raking it millions and millions after making millions and millions, on whose tombstone reads “He dropped dead while making millions and millions”.
Seems successful people is remembered more by what they give than what the receive.
Frank Chin
Re: Why share your secrets… (very long) - Posted by Chris in FL
Posted by Chris in FL on August 25, 2006 at 02:13:39:
Peter,
I once thought the way you do, so I can say, looking back, that really is quite narrow-minded thinking. When you have actually studied some gurus (I have), implemented some of their teachings (I have), and discovered for yourself whether it works or not (much of it does), then you can start to understand what they do and why. No, not all are perfect and legit, but most are (I have studied dozens and so far failed to find one that didn’t offer some value, and most of that I got very cheaply through books and cd’s). Most made their million(s) in REI, then moved on to teaching because they could add more value to others. As I progressed as an investor, I have moved on a sliding scale from mostly being taught to mostly teaching others (all free). Join your local REIA, make some friends, and see if you don’t find plenty of people willing to help out others, often for no personal gain. Do yourself a favor… Read ‘The One Minute Millionaire’, by Robert Allen and Mark Victor Hansen, and really give it a chance to sink in.
However, you have an even bigger issue than your cynicism of gurus. If you ever expect to be extremely successful, you are first going to have to learn that you don’t do it alone. You share, and others share with you, and you build a team that succeeds while they help you succeed. Do you think Bill Gates, Sam Walton, Abe Lincoln, or Carnegie could have had the success they had by themselves? Or did they maybe have help, and at the same time make others around them more successful? If you made millions, and had no desire to share your ‘secrets’ and success at all, you really have some issues. Real success doesn’t come from stepping on the other guy - it comes from giving him a hand up when he needs it, and him doing the same for you when the tables are turned. I think Zig Ziglar said you get what you want in life by helping more other people get what they want. T. Harv Eker says “I get rich because I add value to other peoples lives”. The greater the value you add, the more successful you become. You can add great value to a few people (build and sell mansions), or add very little value to a great many people (inventor of bubblegum). Either way, true success comes from the value you add. Keeping your secrets to yourself just makes you another Scrooge. If this makes you mad, instead of enlightening you, that would be a shame. There is so much more to life than the way you were thinking in your original post (I know because I was there once not too long ago)!!! Best wishes!
Re: Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Joe Kaiser
Posted by Joe Kaiser on August 24, 2006 at 15:02:30:
Couple points . . .
I’ve seen lots of courses, some good and some not so. It seems like it’s
fairly easy to figure out which (or who) knows what the heck they’re
doing, and who’s an info ho.
It’s a big county. If I’m able to do my thing in my area, and it’s working
great, I’d love to see others working it in their area, too, especially if
there’s sufficient value that allows me to profit along with them.
Why wouldn’t I share that info if others are willing to pay me for it, and
I can’t put it to work in their areas anyway?
And don’t forget, there are swings in real estate where deals don’t
close for extended periods and checks come in at irregular intervals.
Having what amounts to a second income, especially one that’s a bit
more predictable, is just sound financial planning.
Finally, as others have said, you can know the best kept secret in real
estate and still not make a livable income. Implementing, showing up,
handling the problems, staying focused, getting out and talking to
people, returning the calls, etc., is what separates the winners from the
whiners.
Joe
Re: Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Brian
Posted by Brian on August 24, 2006 at 12:25:44:
First you have to realize that these people aren’t sharing “secrets” with you, they’re SELLING “secrets” to you. Even worse, these methods are hardly secrets, and have been around for longer than you have been alive. On top of that, there is nothing in these “systems” that couldn’t be found in a free book you can get from your local library.
But let me explain why they want to “share” these secrets with you. Because someone will pay a pretty penny for them. Most of the gurus I’ve met haven’t made their bread and butter buying real estate. Instead, they do a few deals, declare themself a guru, and carefully avoid plagiarizing another sytem, while writing up one of their own.
I’ve worked pretty closely with one such guru. In the course of an entire year, our guru friend only flipped one house for a $2000 profit, and bought a rental property at $10,000 under market value. However, this guru had a program which was priced for over $4,000 a pop, and about every other month, our guru friend would hold seminars to sell this program, and without fail, would rake in over $50,000 in a weekend. You do enough of that, and you don’t need to renovate, rent, or flip houses.
So the real road to financial freedom in real estate, isn’t real estate itself. Its do a few deals, fill a binder with 100 pages of old techniques (and don’t forget to include the CD recordings of yourself reading your own seminar manual - they’ll go for a premium) and sell people on your “experience” as their new all-knowing guru.
Re: Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Don (VA)
Posted by Don (VA) on August 24, 2006 at 11:41:46:
They do it for lots of different reasons. Some really do want to give back. Others, legitimately, to make money…nothing wrong with that if they’ve got a valuable product. Some (probably too many) simply for ego gratification. And, for some, sure, it’s just an easy way to make some bucks.
The trick is figuring out which is which. If they want to give back, fine. If they’ve got a valuable product, one I’m willing to pay for but that is as it’s represented, fine. The ones who bother me the most are the ones who clearly like to stand up in front of people and talk. They’re slick and smooth. (Some give off the appearance of being not-so-smooth. They’re actually the best; they’ve got their act down perfectly.) Sometimes what they’re selling is legit, sometimes it isn’t.
Just like any other field, some are great values and others aren’t. Considering your concern, look for some gurus who are still doing what they’re hawking. Quite a few are. That’s an indication that: (1) They’re not just in it for the bucks (though, again, making a profit isn’t bad at all), and, just as important (2) They’ve kept up on the changing market conditions.
Like a number of other posters have pointed out, real estate is not a zero-sum game.
Re: Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Natalie-VA
Posted by Natalie-VA on August 24, 2006 at 11:26:03:
Peter,
I’m sure there are good ones and bad ones out there, just like in any other field.
My husband’s grandfather (RIP) used to talk about success as one climbs up the ladder. You can kick the rungs out from under you so that no one can follow you up, or you can leave the rungs there so that people can join you at the top.
I’m sure I screwed that up somewhat, but hopefully you get the point.
–Natalie
Re: Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Investor-Mo-Lester
Posted by Investor-Mo-Lester on August 24, 2006 at 11:05:53:
Would you share a glass of water with a man dying of thirst? If so, why? You might be thirsty yourself some day. No need to waste the water on someone else.
Since you aren’t the sharing type, I just bet you have plenty of good friends surrounding you.
A valid question - Posted by Anon
Posted by Anon on August 24, 2006 at 10:08:16:
That isn’t to say there aren’t valid answers to that question. But you really didn’t get many did you. But you did get a lot of dismissive replys you loser .
This is a valid question because the motivation and success of a teacher is important in evaluating their claims and their ability to teach.
This is a verbatim claim from the website of a guru that lives near me: “Folks, you truly can make as much money as you are willing to work for. There is nothing keeping you from earning a million dollars each and every year.”
If you knew nothing of this person, and only read his claims, then you might come off with a favorable impression of him. But since I live near him and know how to research such things, I did a little investigation.
Up until about six years ago he was a real estate broker, he then had his license revoked. He has a few large judgments against him related to said revocation. He claims to have been invovled in hundreds of realest transactions. Well maybe as a realtor, but certainly not as an investor. The house he lives in is mortgaged to at 100% (approx. $300,000 house), and he mortgaged the property only by deeding it to his brother-in-law and having his brother-in-law take out a mortgage in his name.
This is not the resume of some one that I would wish to learn from.
Free Advice for Young Peter - Posted by Jimmy
Posted by Jimmy on August 24, 2006 at 07:13:15:
I share your skepticism about gurus. Some people are go-getters, risk-takers, and very self-motivated. like me. I dive into stuff and ask questions later. I have the balance sheet and SCARS to prove it.
Other people are more cautious, need hand-holding, need the comfort of a system designed by someone smarter than they are… nothing wrong with that. the world has all personality types. and all personalities can do well in REI.
as far as NOT sharing secrets, I have a problem. It gets to one of the fundamental differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives believe in abundance and unlimited opportunity. Liberals believe in scarcity, and victims.
so here’s the free advice: buy nasty properties. rehab them. rent them out. hold forever.
a simple methodology that will max your cash flow and let you retire a wealthy man.
and you didn’t pay $1000 to attend this seminar.
good luck
Re: Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Berno
Posted by Berno on August 24, 2006 at 07:08:36:
You are correct. They are all losers. You remind me of the story of the man who sold hotdogs, which can be found in one of Lonnie Scruggs’ first two books. While you have it all figured out I guess the rest of us will have to be satisfied to wallow in our own ignorance, keep listening to the gurus and making money.
-Berno
Re: Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Jason (AL)
Posted by Jason (AL) on August 23, 2006 at 20:59:59:
What does it matter to you?
Given the facts, there are plenty of deals and plenty of $$ to go around for all.
It’s been proven that the masses that purchase these courses & books and attend all these seminars & bootcamps never do a single deal.
Of course, we all see that you’re not the type that believes that folks experience joy from helping others.
Best of luck to you in life.
Take care Pete.
Re: Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Larry K
Posted by Larry K on August 23, 2006 at 20:31:21:
Good question. Why would people like Sam Walton, Donald Trump, S. Truett Cathy, Lee Iacocca, Oprah Winfrey, Lonnie Scruggs, Ray Alcorn, etc. write books and sell advice?
A) They are greedy and want to get richer
B) They are bored and want to do something different
C) They are egotistical and want fame (not money)
D) They are just good men and women that feel fortunate and blessed to be so successful and have a desire to give something back.
E) A & C only
F) B & D only
G) All of the above
The attitude of a loser - Posted by DaveD (WI)
Posted by DaveD (WI) on August 23, 2006 at 18:11:44:
Peter, with all due respect, who cares? With your cynical attitude, if you were able to obtain the info for free, it wouldn’t make any difference. You see, the info would be worthless to you just because it was free.
That’s the funny thing with information. It can be worth millions in your own pocket, or only dust in the wind. But it’s your choice!
I thank God every day that “gurus” were willing to “share their secrets” with me. It has made a difference you can’t imagine. And I know more than one of them. I consider them my friends.
But I’ll bite. Here is a couple reasons why gurus might be willing to “spill the beans.” I’m sure others can add hundreds of reasons to this most modest list. But what difference does it make? Have you spent any real time or money to figure all this out? Probably not, with the loser “gimmie-gimmie” attitude. Please ditch it.
Here are some concepts you probably don’t understand.
Giving back
Paying it forward
EGO!
A rising tide raises ALL ships.
What goes around comes around.
Multiple streams of income.
Birds of a feather flock together.
It’s not a zero-sum game. My gain is not your loss.
…
Dude, I gotta eat. The flambeau-whatever is burning. Buwaaaaahahaha!
-Dave
Re: Why share your secrets if you made … - Posted by Sailor
Posted by Sailor on August 23, 2006 at 17:12:37:
The thing is there really aren’t any real secrets. Yes, some handy
tips & a few forms, but mostly it takes a nose for the market &
some hard work–oh, yeah, time & frustration, too. Oops, did I
forget to mention $$$? Even though I’ve purchased SFRs & a biz
for zero down, that only means I didn’t use my own checking
account. I think the primary reason so many folks try to become
gurus is that they simply don’t have the stamina to keep up the
hard work necessary in REI. The only reason I’ve lasted all these
years is that I limit the # of deals I do, & take long breaks. I
simply don’t want to work that hard.
Tye
Good post Frank - Posted by Rob Ricker
Posted by Rob Ricker on August 27, 2006 at 01:14:38:
Your advise always “adds value” to those on here wise enough to listen. Thanks …
Thanks Frank! - Posted by Kathy Janes (No Cal)
Posted by Kathy Janes (No Cal) on August 26, 2006 at 12:28:03:
Your posts are always filled with wisdom and compassion. Thank you for the times you have shared your suggestions in response to my queries.
Re: Here’s how it goes … - Posted by Stew(NE)
Posted by Stew(NE) on August 25, 2006 at 18:43:45:
Amen Frank,
One of my mentors is a guy who’s goal this year is to give AWAY a million dollars this year. Last year he gave away $600,000 dollars.
“But, not needing millions and millions more is a concept meaningless and imaginable to the guy living in the $7.00/hour world.”
This is so true. I am trying to make my first million and he is working on giving that away.
But the “secret” that he let on was that he gave away his last dime when it was his last dime. Giving didn’t show up when he got money. He worked on it through the tough times and the times when he was growing his business